Kirk was the best Star Trek Captain in my rankings - Please give your rankings

Cafe Society
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  1. Kirk. While holding in his gut and praying the glue on his toupee would hold he was able to show the bravery of a frontier Captain. He dealt with new races and talked computers into self destructing. The Klingon’s refused peace with the Federation just because Kirk was still alive. He had the Flying leg kick, the torn shirt and saved the Universe too many times.

Look at the threats he defeated. The Doomsday machine (A planet killer with an impenetrable hull) Two f*cked up Earth Probes Nomad and V’ger (V’ger, actually, was more bored with the film than Kirk and booked out of it at its earliest convenience) Trellaine (He tried to go manno et manno with a god) Apollo same as Trellaine. In fact, while Picard would talk about how wrong it was to hurt lesser species Kirk’s usually response was an indignant “Who are you to tell us what to do?” as if that God was really merely being an annoyance (Remember his initial reaction to Organians even after they paralyzed both Klingon and Federation Fleets and ceased “All hostilities everywhere”). He fought hand to hand with a Gorn. A Gorn! Sure Nausicans may look tough but that guy had a boulder bounce off him and he barely needed to shrug it off.
He helped immunize the galaxy against a giant life sucking Amoeba.

He talked to death Several super computers.
Barely defeated superman KHANNNNNNNNN, twice!
Saved Earth from a stupid Whale probe,
Trounced The Klingons, repeatedly.
He bothered to fight and defeat the Romulans. Picard may have taken a few shots but how many warbirds has he chalked up… None! I mean despite there technical menace, the Romulans are generally a bunch of light weights… They won’t fight unless you let them by not fighting back… No wonder Picard had to deal with them so many times Kirk even had to cross the neutral zone to deal with them again.

Kirk made the Universe safe for the Federation. He rocked, he rolled (the shoulder roll great escape manoeuvre)

  1. Sisko, Manly enough to take a shot at Q and still not afraid to give his some a hug or kiss.

  2. Pike: Torn and anguished over losing a few crew but when push came to shove he threatened to test his phaser on a Thalosian’s head and break its neck too. Plus he can keep up violent thoughts for a long period of time…. Sure that seems unbalanced but at least he’s interesting.

  3. Archer. Not afraid to rub down his second in command… even if he could suffer freezer burn from it.

5)Picard Blah blah blah… If you fire on us again I’ll be forced to fire back… blah blah blah Prime Directive… Blah blah Humanity has improved… Blah blah tea, Earl Grey, hot… Blah Blah… ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

  1. Jayneway: An annoying version of Kathryn Hepburn.
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:smiley: Oh my God, this is hilarious! Thank you, K.
Trip and T’Pol could handle things just fine on their own. Add a heated Bed Buddy and a blankie to the list of therapies above, and Jonny should curl up and sleep through the rest of the mission.

If only.

He sure is darling in jeans and a t-shirt, though.

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How dare you! I seem to remember your precious Picard engaging in the occasional dalliance as well. In fact, Picard was the one who was so lacking in self-contol that he deflowered the mesomorph when he was supposed to keep his hands off her.

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I’ven’t yet seen Enterprise, so I’ll just leave Archer off my list.

Picard is the expert smooth-talker and diplomat, and by far the most sophisticated of the captains. Kirk is easily the most rough-and-tumble, able to deal with any problem requiring testosterone.

But Sisko is a good blend of both, so I’m going to put him at first place. He’s not as tough-guy as Kirk, but he does command fleets and punch out Q. He’s not as cultured as Picard, but then, there’s the whole Emmisary thing. So he’s still strong on all fronts.

The next two, it’s close. Usually, I favor Kirk’s direct approach a little more, at least for a starship captain, so I’ll put Kirk at second place, and Picard at third.

Janeway is last. Her strengths and weaknesses are in the same place as Picard’s, but she’s weaker on all counts. Not only is she less cultured than him, she’s actually wimpier, as well. And unlike Kirk, who knows when and when not to break the rules, she breaks the rules even when it’s to her (and her ship’s) disadvantage, but follows them blindly in other cases. I mean, how could you possibly construe the destruction of the array as anything other than a violation of the Prime Directive, on the largest scale?

And if we’re going to extend this to other lists as well, how about first officers?

Spock comes first, because Spock totally kicks butt. No questions.
Kira was extremely cool, when she wasn’t trying to be a bitch just for the sake of bitchiness. Unfortunately, that was most of the time, but she still had a lot of potential. So she’s second on the list.
Chakotay’s only problem was that sometimes, he wasn’t too grounded in the real world, but he was certainly wise, and no slouch in the toughness department. A little after Kira overall, but it’s close.
And Riker was just an idiot. I mean, come on, his sole distinguishing characteristic was that he’d screw anything which was vaguely humanoid in shape and at least 50% female. He never made any decisions or took any responsibility for anything. I mean, would you trust an officer who turned down the chance for an independant command? I sure as heck wouldn’t.

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  1. Benjamin Sisko, for most of the same reasons everyone else has said. Sisko has the most approahable personality of any of the captains, but at the same time he’s an excellent, natural leader. He has sensitivity but also shows his darker side now and again. He inspires a strong following, but also maintains friendships with most of his crew. A hard balance to maintain. And that voice… damn. I’d follow that into battle! I think Sisko is a big part of the fact that DS9 is my favorite Trek series.

  2. Jean-Luc Picard, because he’s smart and classy. He’s the best diplomat of the bunch, but sometimes a little too long in reserving his judgment. A great leader, but sometimes seems to hesitate longer than strictly necessary.

  3. James Kirk, something of a loose cannon, but a strong leader nonetheless. Not afraid to shirk the rules when he needs to, which can be (and was) both a benefit and a detriment to his leadership style. A little too ready to lead every away mission, in my book. But a good leader nonetheless.

  4. Katherine (sp?) Janeway, who’s not a bad leader but not a particularly good one either. She makes snap decisions when caution is called for, and hesitates when quick decisions are needed. She somehow ends up doing the right thing anyway, but that seems to be more because of her support staff than anything else. It’s funny, when Voyager started, I really wanted to like Janeway more, as the first woman captain featured strongly in Star Trek. She disabused me of that notion rather quickly.

I didn’t forget Archer, but I’ve only seen a few episodes of Enterprise. What I saw did not impress me, but I acknowledge that a few shows isn’t enough to base my judgment on.

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As a TV show?

Besides, when she says “Break out the compression phaser rifles.” I get all tingly.
^:dubious: ^

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Ew… Janeway gets you tingly?

Sick, sick, sick…

And I like infant dogs dressed up as marsupials.

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I’ll not mention any names about some dopers asking sheep to wear lipstick…

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hey, she looked older then ewe! How was I to know?

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Don’t try and pull the wool over my eyes!

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Well, the Prime Directive only applies to pre-warp civilizations. The Array was a piece of technology that dragged a Federation Starship accross the entire galaxy against its will (and took another ship along for the ride). I fail to see how acting on the Array is interfering with pre-warp cultures. So why exactly do you think it was a violation of the Prime Directive? As I recall, every society involved, even outside the array, was post-warp development.

First officers, eh?

1.) Spock. He’s just so… Spockish. Entirely cool. He was the perfect diplomat to Kirk’s brashness, always had the solution to a problem, and was the most “Vulcan” Vulcan of any of them, except perhaps his father. Not only was he a first officer, but hhis role as ambassador and covert operative (of a sort) in later decades is quite cool. Plus, he had what I consider the most moving line in Star Trek history (not sure if it’s exact):

“Is it possible that we two, you and I, have grown so old, and so inflexible, that we have outlived our usefulness?” -Spock to Kirk, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. [The commas indicate pauses in the delivery, not the grammatically correct punctuation].

2.) Everyone else but Chakotay. I don’t really have an opinion here, they all have their pluses and minuses.

Riker seemed like he’d be much better as captain of a ship. He was far more Kirkian and ready for battle, but he really played a second fiddle on the show. Data was far closer to a “First Officer” than Riker ever was, in my opinion. On the other hand, I did like the guy. He had a powerful presence.

Kira, I don’t have much of an opinion on. I didn’t watch DS9 all that much.

T’Pol is okay. She’s far too glacial in my opinion, however. Spock pulled it off quite well (I have a hard time deciding whether Nimoy or Stewart is the better actor – I love them both), T’Pol just makes it appear stuck up. Where Spock was nearly always correct in terms of what to do, T’Pol is not.

5.) Chakotay is… so-so. He never seemed to be a proper first officer to me. He was bound by circumstances, sure, but I still don’t consider him as really up to the job.

One more list, for fun… how about which names sound the “best?”

1.) James T. Kirk. The name is short and sharp, the perfect sort of name for a tough captain. It has a nice “hard-edged” feeling to it. Also, consider his middle name, Tiberius. Also a nice hard name. Who would you rather avoid against in a fight, based on name? “Jean-Luc Picard” or “James Tiberius Kirk?”

2.) Benjamin Sisko. The name isn’t nearly as short and snappy as Kirk’s is, but “Sisko” is also a neat tough-sounding name. Drop the “jamin” for “Ben Sisko,” and it’s even better.

3.) Jonathon Archer. Once again, repeating my favorite phrase, “Archer” is a strong-sounding name. Not much else to be said.

4.) Jean-Luc Picard. The double first name thing is sort of a turnoff, in my opinion. “Picard” is a good name for a commander, it’s just that “John Luke” isn’t really a good preface to that. “Captain Picard” is a good way to address him. “Captain Kirk” is still a bit more snappy, but we can’t all be Kirk.

5.) Kathryn Janeway. I like having the last name end with a hard sound, so a “way” sound puts her at the botton of the list. “Kathryn” isn’t all that bad of a name. To steal the captain’s name from “Yesterday’s Enterprise,” Captain Garret would be a perfect name. Kathryn Garret would rank right around Sisko, in my opinion.

-Psi Cop

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I haven’t seen enough of Enterprise to judge Archer, so I’ll leave him out.

  1. Kirk. No doubts. He was the perfect captain for his time. The quadrant was still full of dangers, and Starfleet needed someone willing to take risks. Anyone willing to confront (and defeat) near-omnipotent beings with nothing more than pure nerve is a great captain. If Q had shown up on Kirk’s ship, you know that Kirk wouldn’t have put up with his bullshit.

  2. Picard. A close second. More diplomatic, more intelligent, and more cultured than Kirk. His failing was that he was sometimes too reluctant to use force or take risks.

  3. Sisko. Kind of a hybrid of Kirk and Picard. He was strong and competent, but I didn’t find his character to be as interesting as some of you did. And that episode where he poisoned a Federation colony (to make up for the Maquis poisoning a Cardassian colony) turned me off to him for a while. It left me with the impression that Sisko was willing to compromise his morals. Can you imagine Kirk or Picard resorting to such a tactic? Certainly not Picard; the idea could, possibly, occur to Kirk, but he’d dismiss it as barbaric and then go kick the Maquis’ ass.

  4. Janeway. She’s simply not very competent. As Avalonian notes, she tended to be rash when caution was called for, and indecisive when quick decisions were needed. Let’s face it: Torres, Tuvok, the Doctor, and (later) Seven of Nine are the people you can thank for getting that ship home again.

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First Officers

  1. Spock. It is only logical :slight_smile: The ideal compliment to Kirk. Spock owned.

  2. Riker. A good compliment to Picard. A man of action, and generally more Kirk-like than Picard. He could be too quick to action, however, and he got in over his head a couple of times. Still, if it came to battle, I’d rather have him in charge than Jean-Luc. As a captain, (as of Nemesis) he’ll need a first officer like Spock.

  3. Kira. A good officer, but most of the time she was a total bitch. And she also had a pretty big dark side.

  4. Chakotay. What self-respecting Maquis terrorist would follow this wimp? Janeway practically had him on a leash for the entire series.

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That wasn’t a spoiler for Nemesis, BTW. We find out in the very first scene that Riker has been promoted.

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Ooh, first officers.

  1. Spock: I don’t like him as the holier than thou Vulcan in TOS but I absolutely love him as the dry witted and even somewhat approachable half human, half Vulcan in Star Treks V and VI.

  2. Riker: The guy that you could get drunk and go looking for Orion Slave Girls with.

  3. Chakotay: I was going to call Riker avuncular when explaining why I ranked him at number two but realized it fit Chakotay more. He’s someone you could go to with any problem and not worry about being judged. Real cool guy… Riker barely beat him.

  4. Kira: I’d’ve killed her in the beginning since I really hate people who feel the need to flaunt their power but she mellowed out in later seasons. I like her but she’s nothing special in command.

  5. T’Pol: An ice queen. If I were a member of the Enterprise’s crew, I’d find some way to have her shuttle mysteriously explode on some planet. I cannot stand her character at all.
    We should do this for the doctors, chief engineers, and other positions that work too. I might do it later if I get bored, actually.

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Indeed, and let’s not forget Riker bested Locutus & Co. in “Best of Both Worlds.”

And I don’t chalk up his unwillingness to leave the ship to his own cowardice. It was the writers’. God forbid anyone diverge from the Formula.

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Yar was killed; Worf replaced her; Crusher left the ship for Starfleet Medical; Pulaski replaced her; Geordi was made Chief Engineer after being the Conn Officer; Wesley was written out of the show; Riker was cloned and originally intended to be killed and replaced by his clone; Data was meant to be the new XO when he did.

Need I go on?

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Chakotay was a dolt and the worst first officer ever.

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Oh, yeah? Well Trip is ugly!

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I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that Sisko was the best overall leader in the Trek-verse. He has it all, he’s tough but his crew love him. He’s smart but approachable and can take advice and use it. He’s as competant on a ship’s bridge leading a fleet against the Dominion as he is dealing with day to day operations on a multicultural space station. He has presence.

I have to give second place to Kirk. Although he’s perhaps the least Believable of the captains, if you take everything the man’s done at face value he is invaluable. The only reason I give him second place is the fact that he’s only at his best on a starship ‘out there’. If you put him behind a desk or give him other duties he cracks. Good front line choice though, just not as well rounded as Sisko.

I give third place to Picard, but I have to say it’s probably not his fault. Star Trek was trying to do the whole ‘We’re not the military, Really!’ thing and was SOOooo ultra PC that he had very little room to shine. He hit his stride with the Borg though and gave you some reason to think he wasn’t just a prissy little tea drinking bureaucrat with a talent for diplomacy and amateur archeology. In fact there was even an episode where they show how EASILY Picard could have succumbed to mediocrity if he didn’t take risks (as if he took many to begin with).
The other two captains don’t merit mentioning IMO. ;>