mmm…axillalingus.
Does this mean guys don’t have to wash up down below either?
Especially ones who are uncircumcised, or simply have been working up a sweat in tight underwear?
Kyber, there’s a great chasm between good hygenic habits and saying a body part is naturally smelly and off-putting.
Here, have some soap. It’s scented with the elusive fragrance of “you missed the point.”
Jonathan, I think you raise a valid point. I would say, though, that there’s an element of self-fufilling prophecy to it all, though. What we are presented with as beautiful we think is beautiful, and we think it is beautiful because we are presented with it as beautiful. I think there’s a very circular element to the whole thing.
Alphagene, if I ever hear of you smooching in the pit again, I might have to re-examine my faith in evil.
I don’t think I did. These good hygene habits prevent portions of our body from being smelly and off-putting.
We may brush our teeth, but we also use breath mints sometimes.
Anti-perspirant, but also deodorant and perfume.
I agree soap is all that I find necessary (not being a big fan of perfume in pretty much any context), but at least that must be used, since the odors that result from many parts of our body most people do not find pleasant.
Some people I know are very much in favour of no washing up down there at all, and somehow find the resulting bacterial infestations (in males and females), pleasant-smelling and natural.
Some people prefer things washed up.
Some people prefer things perfumed.
I think you fall in the second group, but whatever.
Hmm. Let us backstep.
My original point was essentially:
-vaginas are not interchangable with fish. They neither smell nor taste like fish.
-vaginas are nice.
-vaginal deoderant is silly
I eat Altoids because I like the way that they taste… I don’t care what they do for my breath.
Are we in agreement that there’s a big difference between someone who is dirty and someone who doesn’t feel like masking that their vagina indeed smells like a vagina?
Actually, I’m allergic to most perfumes and scents. Can’t stand them. Give me a bar of Ivory and some mild anti-perspirant and I’m good to go.
Ok, agreement reached. I think my confusion was that the “fish-like odor” (which does exist) is caused by a harmful bacterial infection.
In fact, douches can cause this.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/dstd/Fact_Sheets/FactsBV.htm
So yes, douching is silly, especially perfumed ones.
Washing on the other hand, we are in agreement on.
The S.O. notes that contrary to the notority of my ancestral country (France), I tend to keep myself squeaky clean. I am quite pleased she shares the same obsession.
But not perfumes. ick. Or, just a hint…
speaking of magazines, this little gem will piss you off-
While thumbing through a magazine recently, I ran across a misleadingly titled article about “Body Confidence in the Bedroom” or some crap like that. The article encouraged the readers to be on top to show off good abs, and actually recommended to avoid it if your stomach was a “problem area”, and opt instead for some legs-off-the-bed “slimming” postition. WTF!!! Yeah, that’s going to make for some hot sex, worrying about your stomach and how to manuever to best hide yourself.
Not only is this a terrible thing to suggest to women, but it is also a great disservice to their partners, whom I’m sure would much rather them let go of this shit and have a good time. A less than perfect stomach is no reason to give up being on top, in any sense!
I used to latch Suspension Boots onto my lover’s ankles. You know, the ones that Richard Gere used to perfect his pectorals in “American Gigolo” ?? Hoi baby, I gotcha “slimming” position right heah ! I miss those boots 
Cartooniverse
While I wholeheartedly agree that advertising generally thrives on threatening us - Ooh, you have an imperfection! Better hide it before someone sees! - I do wish people would lay off Barbie as an Evil Influence.
My Barbies were bad girls. When Barbie went out, she only wanted one thing from Ken - unfortunately, he didn’t have it. Neither did Alan (Ken’s best friend) or G.I. Joe or even Johnny West. So my Barbie started hanging out with Midge a lot.
And at least Barbie wasn’t a goddamned baby doll! “Here, little girl, play with this nice baby doll, so we can train you up right! This is good practice for when you have your own children - because everyone knows, a woman is nothing without a baby!” I get pretty sick of that message, too.
The only problem being that 50% of the population doesn’t have PMS. It’s far from a universal female condition, though I don’t know of any actual statistics. I for one have never had it and a thread on the subject some time ago turned up a lot of other female dopers who don’t suffer it either.
As for vaginal deodorants, they’re just evil. If you have a bad smell you probably have a bacteria and you need medication, not perfume. Otherwise, you’re fine and deodorants will do you more harm than good. I’d really like to know who the misogynist that invented them was.
Barbie’s evilness depends on the way in which it is used… that much is true. My Barbies were constantly under siege by my much cooler GI Joes. And Midge and Barbie hung out a lot… there’s this whole comedy routine about how butch Midge is and how the whole Mattel world is a bunch of outrageous homos. (Come on, look at Ken!)
Baby dolls are just cloying. Especially the “realistic” ones. Why in the world should someone who is barely toilet trained themselves covet something that simulates bowel movements? Arrgh! Having a favorite doll or stuffed animal is great (says the girl who posesses a stuffed frog and a teddy bear) but can you just imagine hitting adolesence and realizing that you pandered away your time with little miss wee-wee? I would sue for the cost of massive therapy.
Perhaps I’m missing some fundamental joy of owning dolls. I never was much for being social as a kid.
I ain’t never had no fish that tasted like that! Good thing too, or I might have had an embarassing episode in the restaurant. :o
“So my daughter asked me, ‘Does Barbie come with Ken?’ I said, ‘No, honey. Barbie comes with Midge. She fakes it with Ken!’” - Vickie Shaw
This sort of propaganda has been used against women for centuries to keep them small and submissive and powerless and unthreatening. In China, the custom of foot binding was done because “Foot binding stopped concubines and wives of the rich from straying or running away from beatings.”
Today, women are encouraged to adhere to the waif-like images that most models in teen magazines still imitate, and that distorted body image leads to eating disorders and low self-esteem.
Sucessful, strong women are viewed as bitches, and women who choose to be as sexually adventurous as men have been for centuries are called sluts and whores.
I’m glad you posted this thread, andygirl. Feminism is still a dirty word to too many people.
A slight hijack here.
I think this unduly harsh; I say this as a father with a 3-year-old daughter; my mother presented her with a baby doll (with grooming equipment & a milkbottle…no, the only thing it does is close its eyes; the ones that have bowel movements do sound repellent–it’s a freaking toy!). This took me a bit aback–my mom being a child of the 1960s, though I guess she wouldn’t call herself a feminist–& gave me pause for thought. But, well, the 3-year-old loves that doll, & I wasn’t (& am not) going to take it away from her. & it occurs to me that encouraging tender & caring behaviour isn’t something I want to discourage (Anne also loves live babies–in fact, she loves going to church with my wife, who’s in the choir, because several of the sopranos bring their kids & babies, & Anne is especially fascinated by seeing one baby get breastfed). Nor, of course, do I want to discourage her from other forms of play–her other favourite things are trains and drawing. But I think if anything I would say the real problem is that boys may be discouraged from having dolls, treating them tenderly, &c. So, if we have a boy eventually, I don’t intend to force toys on him (there will be lots to pick & choose from here, I sometimes think we’re getting buried under toys here), but I hope I wouldn’t actively discourage him if he picked up the doll & gave it a cuddle. & I’ll certainly be glad if Anne learns that mothering can be a fun & rewarding thing to do…among the many other fun & rewarding things to do in life. In any case (she’s a 3-year-old Steve Earle fan) her current career plans involve a guitar (or the little ukulele we have for her now, at least).
Barbie dolls are a bit more problematic, & if a relative presented Anne with one I might be less tolerant. & even more than the dolls, I do hate magazines directed at teenaged girls, & I want to keep Anne away from that stuff, though that’s virtually impossible I know. She’s unlikely to grow up a stick-thin fashion model (to judge by family background) & I wish her to remain comfortable with herself.
Sorry, this is only tangentially related to the thread topic, but the strong language in the quotation above jarred with me a bit. Baby dolls are OK. – all best --N
ndorward, I think you’ve got the right idea for your daughter. Some notes:
-
You shouldn’t take everything I say in the pit at almost 3 am entirely seriously.
-
When I wrote this, I was thinking of my recent perusal of a doll section. Andymom and I were looking for a doll for the daughter of a family friend. I swear we simply couldn’t find one that didn’t do something “realistic” that was good for a two year old.
-
I do agree that dolls have a definate and necessary place in childhood.
I always preferred stuffed animals, personally. I think they help cultivate a better fantasy life. (Does that make any sense?)
Dolls are empty vessels into which children pour their imagination.
The problem I see is adults assigning meaning to toys that are not there. When Mattel made Barbie, I’m sure the grown-ups had an idea of how they should be played with and what meaning should be assigned to the doll. Children (especially very young children) are not restricted by the meanings we adults impose on these empty vessels.
When my son was young (and even today, although he has been “civilized” enough to try to hide it and be ashamed of it) he liked to play with dolls and dollhouses and my daughter loved playing with cars. And visa versa. What’s the big deal?
As to the vagina smell. Sometimes they smell quite funky. Sometimes they smell “fishy”. Sometimes they smell, um, vaginaish. Do people really think that “vaginaish” is stinky? Aroused vagina definitely does have a distinct aroma. It has been my experience that most males find that scent extremely arousing themselves. I think the jokes are a defense mechanism. The male ego really is a fragile thing. As a whole, the male of the species just cannot admit to the power of that scent, hence the jokes.
We women know better.
Andygirl: yes, I hope I wasn’t taking your post too seriously: it simply brought back my own ambivalent feelings about Anne’s receiving the gift of a doll. Uncanny how little Anne here took to the doll (& dubbed her “Amy”): her previous favourite (a bear) has been virtually forgotten. – I fully sympathize with your difficulties about purchasing a present from the toy store: my own preference is for toys that are as simple as possible, & it often is hard to find them among the piles of crud. I’m a bit of a toy-Luddite: I don’t like toys with electronics–largely because if (as often happens) one stops working properly you have a weepy & desolated child to deal with–& wood is great because it’s hard to break. & there is the argument that the more toys “do” (sing, move, speak, &c) the less the child’s imagination does…though perhaps that’s a little too pessimistic an idea, since I’d imagine it’s pretty hard to stunt a kid’s imagination.
all best --N
You know, I’m not asking that people wear tampons as a necklace. But what’s up with this undercover giggle-giggle routine? It’s not a big deal, you don’t need to attempt to conceal the pad in your hand, especially if you’re surrounded by only females. (Oh, and you girls who think it’s funny? Get over it.)
Sometimes I wish ads for sanitary pads were a bit more realistic. “Well, since you have to walk around with a scaled-down matress in your crotch, use our brand! It has wings!”
I think you’ve found your new career, andygirl! I’d love to buy products advertised by your commercials.
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