I was a catholic for a short time, and the church leaders were adamant that we kneel during (certain) prayer. I have jewish friends who’s leaders are equally adamant that they never do such a thing. then I have muslim friends who touch their foreheads to the floor when they pray.
How did these quite different tenets evolve out of a common philosophical root?
Oh, and I’m aware of a religion who’s believers lie stretched out flat on their stomaches while in prayer.
I just don’t get religion. But I love you all anyway.
Peace,
mangeorge
There’s at least one Catholic sect (Maronite but I’m certain this is a misspelling) whose members don’t kneel during Mass. They probably don’t kneel period.
I’ve been to their Danbury Church and knelt when it was appropriate for me.
They come to my church and stand when we kneel.
No big deal.
What I never understood whilst growing up a Catholic, is why some prayers were done kneeling, and yet others are done standing up?
Me neither, come to think of it. Even worse. I never thought about it.
Thanks a lot, bouv.
But gimme a break. I’ve been a Catholic for only 74 years.
In Mass, the only time we kneel is when the Eucharist is involved somehow, I think. Although lately I’ve noticed some people being lazy and resting their butts on the edge of the pew. THAT’S CHEATING. There will be a reckoning some day, oh yes.
Nit picking…
But some Dopers will tell you that they Genuflect (which is a brief kneel) during a specific part of the recitation of the Nicene Creed: “…by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary and became man.”
But you’re quite right, I think.
I was last involved with the catholic church around 1960, so my observations are somewhat dated. I know they have become more liberal.
In the missals it says to bow your head at that part. But there are a handful of things that have become obsolete in most American Catholic churches. Like the beating of the breast during the “I confess to almighty God” part. I rarely see people actually do that. Back in Korea it was still pretty standard - but then again wearing mantillas during Mass was also still more or less standard until just a few years ago.
What, in the OT, inspired these people to do these things? They all take some specific action, even if that action is to do nothing. There must be something that tells jews to not kneel, and the others to do what they do.
Well, why do men get on one knee to propose to their perspective wives? No law says you have to, but it’s a way of showing you’re doing something special.
There’s a consistent theme to all of these situations. We kneel during the Canon because the Blessed Sacrament becomes present on the altar. It’s the same reason that we genuflect when passing a tabernacle. The genuflection during the Creed at the *et incarnatus * acknowledges the incarnation. Ditto for the genuflection during the *Angelus * at the words “and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us”.

There’s a consistent theme to all of these situations. We kneel during the Canon because the Blessed Sacrament becomes present on the altar. It’s the same reason that we genuflect when passing a tabernacle. The genuflection during the Creed at the *et incarnatus * acknowledges the incarnation. Ditto for the genuflection during the *Angelus * at the words “and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us”.
I was raised in the Episcopal Church, where it was generally conceded that all the moving up and down was to keep parishoners from nodding off.
In my mind, I see it as humbling oneself before one’s God. But my Jewish friends tell me it is specifically forbidden for them to do so, and that as God’s chosen people they stand tall before their Lord and bow before no one, including Him.
My understanding is that traditionally one kneels for confession, petition, or intercession, and stands for praise and celebration. Modern usage has minimized the amount of kneeling, which used to be excessive.
Traditionally, one:
[ul][li]Makes a breast-beating gesture during the General Confession – whether formulated as the Confiteor or not.[/li][li]Makes the sign of the Cross at a mention of the Three Persons of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) or when receiving a blessing.[/li][li]Makes a deep bow or genuflexion at (1) mention of the Incarnation, particularly in the Creed, (2) both the Words of Institution (“This is My Body” / “This is My Blood of the New Covenant”) and at the Epiclesis (the point where the celebrant beseeches the Holy Spirit to come upon the bread and wine and make them the Body and Blood of Christ); (3) when passing in front of an altar or a tabernacle where the Sacrament is reserved. A slight bow is appropriate when walking in fron of a church where you have reason to believe the Reserved Sacrament is present, as well.[/li][li]Kneel or stand for prayer, according to the custom of the church. In particular, one stands for either the initial part of the Prayer of Consecration, kneeling after the Sanctus, or for the whole thing.[/li][li]Stand for the reading of the Gospel lesson and for the Creed.[/ul][/li]
Obviously, these only apply to liturgical churches; I can remember growing up in the Methodist Church where at communion services the minister would read the call to confession: “…and make your humble confession to Almighty God, devoutly kneeling.” At which point the congregation would sit.
Further, they are marks of piety, to be undertaken by those for whom they are meaningful. I find levdrakon’s point to be a very apt analogy – you do it out of love, not out of rote. I recall one Episcopal priest saying that the only actual obligation on a visitor to the church was to join in the communal “Amen” at the end of the Prayer of Consecration – everything else was optional. Further, anything that causes intense discomfort is to be avoided – when Barb’s fibromyalgia was the worst, she always sat for the Prayer of Consecration, as standing through the whole long thing gave her hours of achy legs.
To keep up the recent tradition of adding a Tom Lehrer quote for every occasion:
First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase]
To keep up the recent tradition of adding a Tom Lehrer
At least you didn’t use the Lehrer Anaphora:
Two, four, six, eight
Time to transubstantiate!
This morning’s Palm Sunday mass reminded me of another occasion for genuflection - at the point in the Passion where Jesus dies. We do the same on the Tuesday and Wednesday of Holy Week, and on Good Friday, when the other three gospel accounts of the Passion are read.
Orthodox Jews kneel and bow down (touching the forehead to the floor, if you’re flexible enough to do so) during a few prayers on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, but not during the rest of the year.
A friend of mine called the local Catholic church the “elevator church” because they had to go up and down so much.
In my mind, I see it as humbling oneself before one’s God. But my Jewish friends tell me it is specifically forbidden for them to do so, and that as God’s chosen people they stand tall before their Lord and bow before no one, including Him.
Well, you do ‘bow’ at one point or another during Jewish services so that’s not quite right - the bows are not ‘deep’ though.
I was taught that kneeling was not done in Jewish prayer to avoid imitating worship before idols (and that in fact Jews should never kneel on a stone floor for this reason). The prostrating prayers on Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur were exceptions, but they are done in a specific way which presumably avoids this problem.