Ladies, check in if you've never been groped (unwillingly)

In My Humble Opinion
81

I was just telling my friends at lunch about the Creepy L Guy who brushes against me every single day. The first time he did it, I wasn’t fazed at all, and dismissed it as the amount of human contact that goes along with riding public transit. But then it became consistent, and ultimately to the point that whenever I see him, I can be certain that he will board the same car as I do, stand next to me, and for some reason make bodily contact. Even when the train isn’t crowded! It happened today, it happened yesterday, it happened the day before that. So my new plan is to deliberately make sure he boards and finds his place first, then go somewhere distant and observe. I’m dying to know what amount of effort he’s going to put into following me around. What’s most irritating is he never does anything gratuitous, so it’s not like I can cry “ASSAULT!” for some brief touching. But after this literally happening every time we’re on the same train, I know he’s doing it on purpose. Jerk.

Anyway, that’s not groping, but it’s still annoying. I have, though, like many women, had to deal with unwanted groping. That shit gets shut down pretty quickly and firmly, but it’s insane that it ever happened in the first place.

But don’t you live in a rural area or something? I think this kind of BS happens in certain types of places that make it more likely to occur in cities. Women are exposed to groping in, say, crowded trains or bars, but not so much grocery stores or while in their cars.

82

**“STOP TOUCHING ME.” **

Might do the trick. Doesn’t matter if it’s overtly sexual touching or touching your shoulder (which you and I and your grandmother know can be just as sexually creepy as touching your thigh, but comes with the added bonus of plausible deniability). Just a really loud statement that you want the touching to stop, now. Public humiliation is a good behavior modification tool. We should use it more often. This thread has helped me to decide that’s what I’m going to do next time. Why on earth do I want to “be nice” and “be liked” by creeps? Eff that. Mama’s making noise now.

83

That, and that we’re so conditioned to think little of it. There’s an accumulation of relatively minor incidents, and every time there is a good reason you didn’t react explosively. You brush it off. Probably half the incidents you wonder if he even meant to do that at all! You doubt yourself, wonder if his hand just happened to brush past, perhaps he is as embarrassed as you are, what if he just had an erection and the movement of the bus threw him into you? etc etc

84

I usually yell, “fuck off!” I’ve never been downtown on a Thursday in my city without being groped…don’t ask me why. I don’t dress provocatively. But everyone knows the weirdos come out on Thursday nights.

85

I’m a guy and was groped twice. Once was a goose but the other was more of a fingering. Both by women. The first was probably by someone I know but the other was by a very drunk party crasher whom no one else really liked either.

86

It happened just last year: HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost

87

I’ve been groped, cat-called, molested, and on one occasion violently attacked on the street in New Orleans by a man who attempted to rip my clothes open.

88

I’ve accidentally done a similar thing at a concerts, too, and thankfully the girl didn’t run off or complain. Ironically, the only ones who have complained were because I was too tall for the concert and I sunk my knees down so my head wouldn’t get smashed by crowd surfers and some girls behind me were thinking I had a hidden agenda for doing that somehow…what they thought I was trying to accomplish I’m not really clear on.

Of course I’ve been shoved against lots of girls at concerts but I’ve also been shoved against lots of guys too. I’ve gotten used to it except for the (most likely accidental) erections that rub against me once every couple years or so when the crowd gets really packed.

89

You’re kidding, right?

I’m retired. It never stops.

I was groped through high school by classmates, at a family reunion by the proverbial creepy uncle, through college by professors and department heads, by two different medical doctors and at work by a psychologist and a psychologist. I’ve been groped in the grocery store, hardware store, parking lot, on public transportation and in a swimming pool. I’ve even been groped while sleeping by a fellow patient in hospital. Name it.

I’ve learned a number of ways to avoid it and usually have some sense of who’s around who may catch a grope. And still I’ve been groped.

Gee, I look at that list and nearly have to think What is it about me that makes me so grope-able? But I’m not going there because I never found a single one of those experiences desirable or pleasant in any way. And I know that most woman of some years probably have a similarly long list.

When my mother, eighty-seven, was in hospice and dying with cancer I dropped in on her at the care center one day, came through her door unannounced and nearly got hit by her cane.

Turns out some decrepit old Romeo had been looking for a little smooch on his morning stroll down the hall.

90

On one hand I agree, on the other it’s a high-adrenaline sort of situation; not only do different people react differently to those, but the same person may also react differently depending on things as variable as aging, who is around, or whether they have the flu coming in.

Something I have seen is that getting trained in one way of high-adrenaline situations (for example, CPR or putting out a small fire) makes most people better at dealing with others - those who don’t get better are the same ones I’d rather not ask for an aspirin for fear they’ll bring me omeprazol instead (and the person I’m thinking of has an engineering degree, on paper he’s not stupid but Gaaawd is he!). I have an idea: mandatory CPR in middle school and firefighting in high school!

91

Eeek! That should read “one type of high-adrenaline situations”! I don’t even know where did that “way” come from!

92

Yes, (I was groped) several times. But that was in India, where sexual harassment of young women is a given thing. Sometimes, I could hit back at the assailants, and sometimes, they were too fast for me. However, I have not experienced any such harassment when living in either western Europe or North america (I seem to be lucky in that respect, going by some of the reports on this thread).

93

Nope, never been groped.

I’m a little curious about something - as an adult, and unless you’re in some situation where you could be hurt, why wouldn’t you loudly and publicly call out these people? I’d be doing some serious yelling and probably some punching if some asshole grabbed me.

94

Likewise. To be fair, I made it a point to go into the back reggae room which I knew was known for groping under the pretense of dancing.

Look, who am I kidding using past tense? I was just in that room last week.

I don’t know how I made it to 39 without many more instances of random gropings on subways and such. I have read many posts that say the gropee wasn’t thin or attractive, so I have no clue what criteria gropers use for groping.

95

Why are you assuming we didn’t? When it made sense!

But yelling when I’m the only person in a subway train with no cameras, except for the driver who’s several wagons away and the dude who’s got one foot on me and who has liked the pole I was holding (because you see, apparently when he holds one of the poles he has to do it in such a way that his dick tries to get between my buttcheeks through the jeans),

wouldn’t help!

96

“Unless you’re in a some situation where you could be hurt.”

That’s the thing, you never really know when it is a situation where you could be hurt. Some men-- and, incidentally, I’m guessing there is a huge overlap between this group and gropers-- get incredibly upset if you rebuff their advances, even politely. I’ve had perfectly nice men turn on a dime from Romeo to monster, berating me and calling me a bitch, a cunt, a fat whore, etc all because I didn’t respond favorably to their comments or grabbing me. I’ve been threatened. I’ve had men physically push me, yank my arm, etc.

And it’s not like all of that only happens in seedy clubs, it’s happened to me in the grocery store, it’s happened in the library when I was a teenager-- and all while other people were around. Even when you shout that you need help, most people will just stand there staring unfortunately ( I suspect they are afraid they’d be interjecting themselves into some domestic dispute :rolleyes:).

Don’t get me wrong: I’ve flipped out on more than one groper, but it had nothing to do with my perceived safety. Instead, I had reached the point of giving zero fucks and just went off, realizing that I might be risking my safety to do so.

97

Let’s see…

In grade school, before the harassment became sexual, I complained to teachers and the only response I ever got was “ignore them and they’ll stop,” by which I learned that adults viewed this as entirely my responsibility and since ignoring them never worked, I was not going to get any help and it was not going to stop.

In middle school, where I’d already learned that I was on my own, and the only “weapon” I’d been provided with was “ignore them,” the few times I tried to fight back were utter failures and gave them more ammunition with which to torment me. I tried to kick him and missed, and he laughed. One guy punched me so hard in the ribs that I couldn’t breathe or walk until he’d walked all the way out of school – he came up behind me in the hallway so I never saw it coming. I don’t know if it was revenge for a previous “leave me alone” or what. But “leave me alone” never did jack shit anyway.

In high school, when I turned around and loudly demanded they stop, they laughed in my face and said something to the effect of “Uh oh, you made it angry!” The bus driver didn’t even look back, and there were no other open seats – and of course I would have gotten in trouble for standing on the bus while it was moving. They continued groping when I turned back around, too.

In adulthood, on a crowded train, you turn around and can’t honestly figure out which of the 5 guys crowded behind you did it.

Or at a going-away party for friends, where it once again happens smack in front of ten witnesses who do and say nothing, and you’re forced to wonder and debate whether bringing the party to a crashing halt will accomplish enough to make ruining the party worth it. Is a drunk guy who thinks this behavior is appropriate going to feel shame if publicly called out? Especially if I’m the only one doing the yelling, given that the other guests have made it clear they won’t get involved? Highly debatable.

So… mostly because it doesn’t work. Also because we’re taught from a very early age that we WILL NOT get any kind of support in fighting back.

Note that when I DID have the opportunity to effectively fight back, I took it. That was one incident out of dozens, however. Gropers become fairly accomplished at stealth, so by the time you turn around, you don’t know who did it or he’s already disappeared.

98

Well, this was a time period when women were imprisoned just for demonstrating to get the vote. “Hysteria” was a blanket diagnosis which could get women committed to a mental institution or have medical procedures performed on them without their consent. :frowning:

I wish they could have gotten away with stabbing the Prime Minister.

99

Never in such a way that I felt assaulted. Mostly at bar or pubs by drunks guys making clumsy passes.

100

This was still happening well into the late 1970s and the eighties. I have met more than a few of the victims.

I was in high school in the sixties and nobody talked about it. I used to walk from class to class holding my books against my chest. It would have never occurred to me to complain to anyone. I thought that that’s just the way it was. And that is the way it was.

I had to be educated to even know I had been groped and not “complimented.”

Then I had choices. Like the department head and his boss who were gropers. My Master’s was nearly ready for review. The old boy’s system played poker together on Friday nights - everyone I could have discussed my complaints with who had the power to do anything about it.

I was the department head’s grad assistant and hadn’t understood why I was treated so cynically by the whole department when I was first introduced. Turned out that every one of his assistants had been his love slave so it was just assumed. I fought that battle silently and alone and did a fairly good job of not violating my value’s system at the same time. I did go to someone above them to feel the situation out and when I sensed that things were going to get tough for me if I raised the issue I made the best choice for myself.

(Eventually one of his assistants who had moved in with him got so mad she burned his house down. After that he transferred to another University with glowing references.)

I wanted out with the least fuss possible and had a job waiting and a family at home that needed me to start supplementing their father’s paycheck. At that time in my life I was in no position to be the hero for all the women who came after me, unfortunately.

The psychologist and psychiatrist were both at the best-paying job I ever had and were tight with administration. I had a promotion coming. (How convenient for them.)

In both of those cases administration knew. I think that is commonly the case. I did what I could to protect myself and my patients.

Maybe someday I’ll talk about when a teacher did this to my daughter and I raised holy hell. All the way up to the Attorney General’s office and testified to the Senate. In the process my work got a VIP fired. And then I’ll tell you about how the system retaliated and caused tremendous and long-lasting grief and expense for my family.

I know well how carefully a person has to pick and choose their battles in this issues. It’s easier to hit a guy on the street and yell than it is to fight the internalized sexism in the system. Most of those guys don’t take a risk until they are well established.