I think there are some stupid, clueless men who think that groping is a compliment or no big deal, and they might be more likely to grope women they think are attractive.
But I think many or most of them are just regular predators, and go for the most easy targets, not necessarily the most attractive ones. Doesn’t matter if you are hot, ugly, fat, skinny, old, or young, they like the feeling of power.
Also it doesn’t matter how dressed up or down you are. In fact, I remember reading one woman (maybe it was a poster here) who said she got a lot more harassment and cat-calls when she was dressed casually compared to when she was dressed up in her hot girl clothes to go the club.
I just wanted to say this, because it seems to be a common misconception that women who are more attractive and dressed more attractive are more likely to be harassed and assaulted. But really, it’s just that the women had the bad misfortune of being around a predator.
Great cartoon and seems to cover the subject pretty thoroughly. When I see stuff like this I can never decide if it makes me feel better because I’m not the only one this shit happens to, or worse because it’s so common.
I was first groped at birth… Oh, oh, you mean touching of naughty bits and boobs. Birth
Seriously though, I remember getting fondled when I had a very small pair of A’s on my chest by another girl making fun of me for having boobs… God… I was like 7 or 8. 20 years man, 20 years.
As far as by men, I’m constantly groped and grabbed and brushed against. I typically consent to this little farce in public areas and not at all in more private or other places away from people. I don’t mind attention or even a bit of sampling, but I sure don’t want to end up being raped or even in just the awkward situation of a random guy alone with me in a park
I think the only real determining factor in this situation is that a groper was present in the vicinity of a woman. That’s it. Because no matter what she’s wearing, whether she’s thin or fat, young or old, timid or exhibiting BRF (Bitchy Resting Face) there is inevitably a situation where some perv tries to cop a feel.
Its easier for more ignorant people to assume groping is like theft- a crime of opportunity that’s more likely to happen if the offender sees that he has a chance of success. But if that were so true, you’d definitely see a correlation between a woman’s appearance/conduct/etc and frequency of getting victimized.
The people doing this are just so utterly inconsierate of other people’s respect/space/laws it seems like a woman could be standing there in a suit covered in razor wire and still get some guy desperate enough to try and cop a feel :rolleyes: . Its frustrating because since there’s really nothing the woman can do to prevent it from happening, preventing it alltogether seems really hard. My wife and her friends are quite fiesty, they go to clubs where gropers will get vigorously beaten up/attacked/driven out by women. And you know what? These women that obviously demonstrate they aren’t going to take it STILL continued to get groped. I think its incredibly stupid for a guy to be crazy enough to cop a feel from a woman who has already demonstrated she will violently fight back along with the assistance of her friends, yet guys will continue to try. Guess they’re masochists too.
People say, “we can tell people not to do this/teach men not to rape” but to be quite blunt I don’t think a lot of the pawing/boob squeezing/vulva grappling is out of some ignorance on the part of the assailant “Wait, I’m not supposed to touch strange women innapropriately? Ohh!” :rolleyes: . Any change needs to happen with everyone getting involved and explicitly showing an intolerance of this behavior. Part of it is that its so hard to know what just happened and who did it, and strangers seldom want to intervene on something they only witnessed 5% of (say, the woman’s reaction/yelling).
I just want to reiterate this for those who still feel that “You shouldn’t have been reading on the train” is an intelligent or helpful thing to say to someone who’s been assaulted.
You can say that to women when you start insisting that men can’t ever read on the train either.
For the love of god, let’s put the blame where it belongs. And perhaps direct more of our education and prevention efforts on those who commit the crimes instead of those who were victimized.
No, it’s not ignorance, but if we start early and often teaching young boys to respect girls and women – you know, see them as people just like themselves – odds are they’ll integrate those lessons and not turn into assholes who want to grope others in the first place.
It’s foolish to presume that parents/school/community has no influence on the development of a person’s character. Especially during their formative years, when they’re learning the rules of this social system we have. Respect CAN be taught, and we need to do that, a lot more consistently.
I’ve never been groped, only been whistled at once, and have never felt unsafe or in danger. I’ve lived in very rough neighborhoods, walk around alone at night and do all sorts of things I’m told women alone should never do. I’m utterly flabbergasted at all the things women say they routinely do to protect themselves. Maybe I have some kind of “back off” aura going.
How do you feel about having sex with your grandmother? No? We need to make boys feel that grossed out about having sex with an unwilling woman. Not let them know they’re “not supposed to,” but make them feel viscerally disgusted at the very idea. Redefine assault as repulsive, rather than wrong.
How? I have no idea. But we certainly do have other sexual taboos. Someone must have started the notion that makes you feel queasy when you think of fondling your grandmom’s tits.
Not only that, but because this is something that occurs commonly (sadly), the boys who grow up internalizing and being repulsed to that, will be more attuned when they see groping or hear a woman’s defense. Instead of immediately accusing her or being a passive observer, the guy may do something (call out, call the cops, fire, remove from establishment, give a fine, etc.).
The message needs to be sent from the beginning that this is not to be done, it is bad, and it will have consequences. The fact that authority figures or others just ignore people like them is why more women don’t speak out a lot or don’t report to those authorities.
Grandmother? I doubt it. Mother, for sure; we’ve got evidence that there’s a programmed aversion to mothers and siblings with whom we’re raised. But that’s why I specified grandmother.
But substitute…oh, I dunno…sex with the supermorbidly obese or eating insects or cannibalism. There are plenty of taboos that most functionally normal people find disgusting in our culture; let’s make rape one of them. (I’m not saying it would completely eliminate it - there are always a few for whom the taboo is a fetish, but it would certainly reduce it.)
Sometimes it is the authority figures that are doing the sexual harassment. I speak from experience :mad:.
I remember trying to convince a school security guard to talk to a boy who was cat calling me. It took a bit of convincing since he said to me that he was just “joking”.
Now as an adult, I have been groped (only twice) and I realize that men who do that to women want to exert a certain type of power and feel powerful by humiliating women.
I’ve never been groped. For five years, in my early twenties, I walked a mile in the city to and from work every day. When it was winter, I walked in the dark. I also lived in and traveled around Europe and North Africa, and experienced countless crowd situations and rode every form of public transportation possible. I can’t even say I have been cat-called (with any ill-intent). For the record, I am young, slim, and (so I have been told) attractive.
I honestly wonder what is the difference between me and women who have been frequently harassed.
The guy who assaulted me literally said: “Do you know how many women I have? I own all women, I can stick my fingers in all their pussies if I want”. Clearly, he really did not know he was not supposed to do that. Really. I don’t know how he missed that memo, but he did. I doubt he’s the only one.
When I could, I have made a fuss, dealt out a push or “fuck off”. But most gropers are swift and in crowds. There is no point. In a medina in Tunisia a guy came up behind me three times and rubbed his erection against me, and the only thing I can tell you about him is maybe he had a red t-shirt. It was a game to him, doing that and then getting away and blending with the crowd just as I turned round to yell. So I would turn and stand face to face with a sweet old lady, and do what?
The only realistic course of action is to educate the people who are the problem. I don’t want any more responsibility piled on top of my daily responsibility not be touched and not to be raped, thank you. WhyNot’s suggestion sounds about right to me.
I’ve only every been groped on the subway in Seoul. It’s the kind of subway where people are literally packed in like sardines. You could relax every muscle in your body and you’d still be upright, held in place by the teeming masses of humanity. Anyway, I used to take the train at rush hour in the mornings to get to school, and every so often someone would try to cop a feel. Maybe once or twice a month. That particular subway line was kind of infamous for being sketchy though. I’ve taken public transportation in many other places around the world and haven’t experienced the same problem.
Other than that, I’ve only ever been groped in clubs, and I feel like that’s different because you kind of expect groping to happen in clubs.
I couldn’t bring myself to read all the posts. I haven’t thought about it in quite a while but I think various forms of groping happened from about eight or nine (neighborhood boys) to into my twenties, when I no longer took public transportation much and finally learned to trust no strange men ever, judge every man I meet by their demeanor and face and take action without any regard for how it looks or what they might think. And by “take action” I simply mean never turn my back on them, keep a safe distance, that sort of thing. Way too many times to count. I don’t know any women who have never been groped, particularly as girls or young women. Post menopausal women don’t get groped as much.
Thinking back, when it stopped was probably when I lived in the Western Addition in San Francisco, a black ghetto at least at that time. If you were a white woman, you learned to walk in the middle of the street and make cars go around you – it was safer. Learning to take action to keep myself safe from being robbed, raped, or murdered, in some way made it permissible to keep myself safe from more minor assaults perpetrated mainly by white men who were supposedly “my people”.
It’s a form of shaming. It is always shocking and humiliating. It takes away your power, it takes away your voice. If you complain you will be mocked and dismissed, certainly by them, probably by others. No one will get angry on your behalf, no one will be surprised, no one will even be interested. I never told anyone about any of them, and I never heard a woman bring up her experiences to me except long in the past and generally (“oh yeah, me too, the #20 Stockton at rush hour was really bad”).
Ulfrieda, in this black ghetto, only white women were harassed?
I spoke to my best friend, and she reports never having been groped outside of the club. I asked her because she is slim and considered very pretty. So that is another piece of evidence that the gropers sure don’t care if you are pretty or not when making their groping choices. We were both raised in the city and we both made a habit of visiting big cities and ghettos over the course of our lives. I am becoming fascinated with the mystery of how some women are constantly groped and harassed and some never.
I really think it’s just luck. You just never happened to run into a groper, and many of us did. Obviously some places attract gropers because they can get away with it in the crowd, but others don’t even seem to care if they are seen. But mostly it’s just luck. I hope yours holds.
