If it’s someone who doesn’t know you, yes. That’s how it’s perceived, regardless of your actual intentions.
And no, nobody thinks you are going to grab a woman and drag her into an alley. But it’s percieved as aggressive. And manners are about considering other people’s feelings, not what you feel.
Dobby the House Elf?
Count me as one of those who agree with Miss Manners. I’m shy and I don’t like being in the center of attention. Not to mention, I absolutely loathe making small talk.
But isn’t that something that is more your own problem, than a problem in the fact that some people like to try and start up conversations with strangers in order to try and make their surroundings less hostile.
Maybe, and as msmith537 so eloquently said, manners means knowing that others may have these issues and deferring to that rather than what you feel.
There are guys who can make “Hi” sound hostile, or at least sleazy. And if you don’t respond with sufficient warmth they get the added fun of calling you a bitch.
It’s pretty easy to tell who is just a naturally outgoing guy and whom it would be better to avoid. I’m happy to chat with the man at the laundromat who asks me which washer works best or where to get a cup of coffee. The guy with the flammable breath and the half-quart of strangely pale “Gatorade” at 9:00 in the morning gets a curt nod, no matter how chatty he’s feeling.
I could not agree more with every single word of this.
But here we meet the ballance point. I have heard of many people who hate being ignored and people acting as though they aren’t there. The sort of action that Guin seems to wish for herself. So we need to realise that a casual recognisation of another persons existance and humanity shouldn’t be seen as a threat, and similarly that no such communication requires a response from the recipient. Smiling and saying “lovely weather today” isn’t a sign of immanent attack, saying to the person at the cash register “I like the way you painted your nails” when you notice they have elaborately decorated finger nails isn’t the build up to an attempted rape.
The following is my WAG on the subject,
I susspect that the real psychos don’t make such small talk, they stand quietly behind you in the line, staring at the back of your head, over hearing when you tell the person at the register your phone number because you forgot your store card. They don’t stand out, they seem quite and introverted. No one talks to them, and they feel noone is human except themselves. No one notices them, and they consider no one else a real being capable of feelings.
Here’s a situation. I’d like to know what you folks think.
I ride the bus daily. A lot of the riders are university-age women. Occasionally, one of them is wearing a heavenly fragrance. I have often been tempted to ask her what it is, because I think my wife would like it. But I never have, because of the attitude expressed in this thread. I’m a stranger, and a man, and I could be a rapist / axe murderer. So, my wife never gets the nice perfume for her birthday, or whenever.
I mean, if you’re going to be wearing enough of it that I can smell you from five or six feet away, I have no option but to notice. But if it’s really nice, is there a safe way to ask a woman what perfume she is wearing, without seeming to be a threat?
I AM NOT DOBBY!!! :mad:
It is not a tea cosy! It is a yarmulke!
And the proper way to apologize is not to say “I’m sorry, muggle. I thought you were some one else.”
I AM NOT A MUGGLE!
The next person who calls me a muggle will see a demonstration of my power. My curse will cause them to spend the rest of their lives sexually attracted to sandpaper.
And I don’t speak Latin when casting spells. And my wand doesn’t contain phoenix feathers. It contains Zener diodes made with meteoric iron.
G-d, how I hate J K Rowling.
I’m no longer a cute college girl, but I certainly wouldn’t be offended by “Would you mind my asking what perfume you are wearing? I think my wife would really like it.” Especially if you left it at that.
I see this as what is wrong with Manner’s plan. According to her you should not talk with the nice guy at the laundromat, he is being rude and agressive in asking you if you know which washer works best. He is also probably being a sexist pig for thinking that you a woman might know more about washing clothes than he does. (no matter that he asked the guy who had just left the laundromat 3 minutes ago the same question).
I think your method is the right one cher3, and much wiser than Manner’s blanket statements.
I realy don’t understan Manner’s sometimes. I doubt the sort of people with the bad intention to actually say “Hi” with daggers attatched, or to start unwanted conversations with a person who is likely to be feeling insecure and in danger would ever read Miss Manner’s books or consider her ideas of any value. Instead I see Miss Manner’s used by people with little social skill in an attempt to prove they don’t need to act sociably within society, and to try and suppress any spontanious social communication from others who don’t feel so suppressed.
Bluntly the people you have to worry about don’t give two hoots to what Miss Manners has to say.
Do your best to appear metrosexual. Metrosexuals are expected to notice such things. You could also try wearing crystal pendants. New agers are generally known to be interested in incense, essential oils, and scents.
Mentioning your wife or displaying your wedding ring will only work if done just right. Otherwise, you’ll give the impression that you are a dangerous (or at least sleazy) man, trying to wear sheep’s clothing.
I find openness works best. Predators, and sleazy men use trickery, deceit and camouflage. As a man who would just like to know what perfume that is, be open and honest.
“Excuse me, that is a wonderful scent you’re wearing. May I ask what it is?”
The way I have learnt to see it is that I know I am not any of those things, and I know I would help out someone even at risk to my own life in a bad situation. Because of this I should not fear communicating with others, if they act defensively that is fine. If they respond openly, then I know they have responded openly to the sort of person that will help them if they need help. If they say something that might have put them at risk if I were a bad sort of person, I would warn them that they should not trust a stranger so quickly but not to fear because I am not that sort of person. Maybe that would scare them a little, but if they learn not to mention such things as living alone or where they live to a stranger then I hope it will be useful to them if they ever do meet a dangerous person. As long as you are socially aware enough to realsie when someone wants to be left alone, then starting a converstaion about perfume should not be a problem.
Just don’t tell them you like the way their perfume smells and sould like to buy a bottle of the same perfume for your mother 
I think it depends on the context. Complimenting someone in the bank line would probably be a little creepy, but at a college or a bar most of the young patrons are looking for partners of one kind or another. In such contexts I don’t think it’s impolite to try to strike up a conversation with a stranger, although starting it off with a compliment might be a little too much. I wouldn’t say it’s an insult, though.
Ugh! I hate this. A lot of girls at my college give out tight, sensual hugs when they see me if they so much as know my name. This really bugs me. I’ve started a “no-hug” policy: I won’t give out hugs, and I won’t beat you away if you try to hug me but I won’t respond to it, because it’s just not appropriate, especially now that I have a girlfriend. Some women take this as though I’m dropping the friendship out and out. Yesterday, when I first announced my policy, the woman who had wanted a hug responded by hitting me over the head five times with a binder. If she touches me again today I’m going to sock her in the face.
Aren’t most rape victims already familiar with the rapist? This is my experience, at least; I’ve never raped or been raped, but everyone I know who has been a rape victim knew the perpetrator. In one case it was her boyfriend.
Sorry, Bippy the Beardless, but I count myself as another Miss Manners fan, and she definitely does not take the position you describe. What she has reassured women (and men) about is that you don’t have to respond to sleaziness or rudeness with anything but the bare minimum of civility. She has absolutely nothing against chatting between strangers, as long as it’s comfortable for both parties. Also, I just used the laudromat as an example of a place where I routinely interact with strangers. The washer question is something I’m equally likely to be asked by a woman.
I give female friends off-center hugs. Rather than standing directly in front of them, I stand off to one side. When I lean in to hug, our faces touch and I can squeeze tightly as an expression of affection. But, in this position their boobs are not squished against my chest. They don’t have to worry whether I’m just hugging for the boobsquish. I don’t have to feel uncomfortable due to boobal contact. I find this works very well.
For the love of god, Miss Manners does not say this, has not ever said this, and doesn’t make blanket statements! She is eminently aware that there are differences to every situation and what is “correct” or welcome in one situation is not in another.
Love her, hate her, agree or disagree with whatever she DOES say, but don’t put words in her mouth!
I’m going to keep my no-hugs policy. Boobs or no boobs, I have no business hugging them like that and vice versa. Now, I’m not saying it’s impossible to commit a friendly hug; the friendly hug-and-kiss is an important part of many Latin American (and other, I’m sure) cultures and it’s done quite well. My girlfriend’s friends (who are all Mexican) know how to respectfully pull this off. Girls of my race and most others, though, generally turn it into some sexual lovefest. The way they try to hug me it’s like they’re trying to extract semen from my shoulders. The whole thing is ridiculous and I’m keeping the ban on.
Wow, Fetus, you must be irresistable. 
Geez, when did women’s boobs become so fragile & precious? I’ve been on the receiving end of many a boob-squishing hug. So what? They’re there. My mom had ji-normous jugs, and if I had a nickle for every time my face was non-sexually smashed between 'em…