Anaamika, with regards to the specific example you gave (please bear in mind that I don’t pretend to speak for all men here), I’ve been a male bystander in similar situations more times than I care to think about, and I can tell you that while I certainly do notice it, and I do not at all feel the behaviour is acceptable, I am also loathe to intervene unless the man in question seems like he might be an immediate threat to her physical safety.
Why? Well, I haven’t personally been a victim of it, but I’ve seen braver friends than I decked for trying to tell off a lecher before. In my experience a lot of the men who blatantly disrespect boundaries (and their own marriages, for that matter’s sake) when drunk are also more liable than the average man to throw a punch in my direction, and quite frankly I’m enough of a coward that I’m not about to risk my physical safety for a stranger unless said stranger is at an at the very least equal risk of physical harm.
Ok…but at least you notice it. I’ve found many men don’t even notice it, not when it happens right in front of them. I don’t expect you to jump to my rescue, not in that situation, but to not notice it at all?
Wow on the flip side of the coin I’m amazed at the power women hold over my male brain, I caught a girl checking me out in traffic today and when I caught her she just gave me a huge smile and a wink and then we parted ways as the traffic started moving, just a little innocent traffic flirtation but it made me feel so good about myself and lifted my mood the rest of the day.
By the parameters of the OP, catching the guy in the act giving a non-threatening glance is ok. Doesn’t bother me and might cheer me up if I’m in the right mood.
Sort of related, but it reminded me of this time I was wearing a new shirt with giraffes all over it. I thought it was pretty damn cool. Some guy said “Hey, I like your shirt!” in what I judged to be a non-creepy way. It was a cool shirt, after all. So I smiled and said “Thanks!” My mood was already light, but after that I was even happier. Then a beat later he said “I also like what’s IN your shirt…”
And I stopped smiling and suddenly became really sad. Why on earth would he be so quick to convert a pleasant exchange into something totally creepy? Even sadder, the shirt never seemed so cool anymore after that.
One of the things which shocked me after my transition was having (cis) lady friends who would deliberately dress down when going to clubs, going to a party, a concert, or an event, because “I don’t want to encourage men to hit on me.” Like instead of wearing tight jeans, she wears cargo pants. Or instead of wearing a more elegant top, she wears a t-shirt about 2 sizes too large.
While I’ve never in my life met a woman who would choose plastic surgery to become less attractive, most I know well have “uglified” their clothing at least once.
I confess I’ve never done that. I’m an attention whore, and I like it when other women notice my figure. However, that does also mean that I’m subjected to a lot of verbal and physical attention from men that I don’t want. Last weekend I was in my favorite bar no more than 2 minutes when a strange man came up and placed his hand on my mid-thigh, just below my skirt. I actually just turned and said “do I KNOW you?” and he replied “you’re about to, baby!” :smack:
This makes me feel sad. For you, and because I’ve been there too. What’s even sadder is when it doesn’t surprise you anymore, it just makes you discouraged/angry that, of course, they went there.
This is so sad, and I’ve been there too. I bet guys don’t think their desire to get laid can have such long-lasting effects on the girls they’re hitting on. I try not to get angry about that…
Late to the thread, sorry, been on vacation. (It was awful! Anyway…)
I’m gonna do these two at once! Cool? Cool. As with MoonMoon, there’s no way to discuss this without sounding like an arrogant prick…
I’m a very good looking dude and I know how to dress. From women, I get scoped out, I get fuck-me-eyes, I get comments, I have had my ass grabbed at the bar, and on more than one occasion I have even gotten “You know I would have sex with you, right?”, but USUALLY with women I just get the subtle eyes-lingering on me a little longer type deal. (Or occasionally I’ll get giddy nervousness or an inexplicable treating me like I’m an asshole if we’re interacting for some reason, like when I’m just trying to pay for my coffee.) I usually like it, but sometimes it skeeves me out.
I have gay friends. Every once in a great while I’ll grab a beer with them after work at one of the gay bars in town. In that environment things get a little more pronounced with regard to the eyeballing. Right in the middle of my very first experience with that, I said “I don’t know how attractive women can deal with this shit all day every day.” Yeah, it’s flattering to a point, but Jesus Christ…and I KNOW that I haven’t had to deal with 1/10th of the crap that women do.
I believe some women try to negate it by dressing all frumped out. Does that work?
I’ve thought about this a bit and maybe it’s a little of them all. I obviously can’t speak for the guys 'cuz I wasn’t there but I think that a lot of guys tend to not pay attention to these things.t may not have occurred to them to be looking for this since it was a company event? Maybe they didn’t think much about it but then were embarrassed afterward so they claimed to not have noticed? I donno.
When I worked in Japan, at first I didn’t pay attention to what was going on with other people. I really didn’t pay that much attention to who was talking to whom so I didn’t catch on to these type of things.
At one party, I got enlisted by the women to sit next to a younger, particularly attractive, married woman in our male-dominated industry. I asked why and was told that all the Japanese guys where hitting on her, so they figured I would be a gentleman. Naturally, I had to play the part, no matter how much of a non-gentleman I may be.
It was sort of a light-switch moment for me and I started to notice that more. Guys don’t normally experience unwanted attention, so we don’t look for it. Once I was shown what it looked like, it was much easier to recognize.
My bolding. This has happened more than once to your friends? Really? I hope that you called the police and had the guys prosecuted.
Having spent far too much time and money in bars in Japan which catered to Western guys and Japanese women, we would see men who would push the limits. Normally simply telling them in a non-confrontational manner without “telling them off” seemed to work the best.
I think the only time I really felt nervous about intervening was when my boss at the time, VP of Sales, was rubbing the arm of my assistant, during work hours. :eek:
You don’t call your boss out, but suddenly I had an important errand for her.
I’m assuming it would be undeniable that he’s looking at me. Otherwise my first reaction would be “is he looking at me?”
But I’d be flattered. I’d smile. If he’s within hearing distance I’d say hi. If he’s my type I’d hope to God he strikes up a conversation because, hey, if you like me and I like you let’s do the damn thang haha not “the thang”… Not right away
Trina Robbins, the feminist underground cartoonist, drew a story back in the '80s or '90s about Rosie the Riveter doing a Connecticut Yankee-style time jump centuries into the future, during all-out warfare between the sexes.
She landed in a women’s encampment while some male prisoners of war were being ushered in, their clothes in terrible disarray. The guards made a big point of taking their shirts and sewing the buttons back on.
Soon after, one of the cooks stormed out of the mess tent waving a jar and bitching about being unable to open it. One of the prisoners politely took it and effortlessly unscrewed the top, the women looking on big-eyed.
Always admired Trina’s ability to combine balls-out feminism with a sense of humor about our beloved sexist cliches. Alison Bechdel does it too, but Trina did it first.
This is a little hard to answer because I know you and I’m picturing YOU saying it. I wouldn’t be offended if you said that to me. I wouldn’t be offended if one of my male friends or coworkers complimented my outfit, especially if it’s a quick exchange (“Nice outfit!” “Thanks!”)
The last time I had a random person compliment my outfit, it was a woman, and I was delighted. It may have been a situation similar to the one you described, in that I had put some thought into the outfit and I felt like I looked good. Hearing it from a stranger was validating. I think if the circumstances had been the same – we were at our kids’ school – and it had been a man saying it, I’d have been fine with that, too.
To the OP: I think I would be indifferent, and feel like the look was a brief acknowledgment of another person’s being there. I generally give a little half-smile to people as I walk by. Any more than a momentary look, though, and it might start to get creepy.
Ah, something similar happened to my husband. I had just shaken the woman’s hand, and he offered to shake her hand, and she politely declined. He is pretty aware of the rules of Orthodox Judaism, actually, but had just forgotten and offered to shake her hand out of instinct. Both of them just moved on immediately, no harm, no foul.
OK, now you’ve forced me to brag as well. I’m not as good looking, BUT I lived in Japan in my late 20s through my 40s, and that’s like adding a standard deviation to looks and at least that to charm. Imagine what an English accent does for a lot of US women.
I also dressed well and did the whole coordinated clothes thing with really expensive watches. I used to look younger than my age as well. Sorry for the blatant bragging.
Anyway, I did get a lot of action, and never used any pick up techniques. Women would let me know they were interested by subtle things so I would just go over and start a conversation on the train or at a convenience store or where ever.
I really didn’t think much about it until it started going away as I got in my late 40s and my friends started giving me shit about having “lost it.”
Anyway, enough bragging, already.
The point is that my experiences match this exactly. Some episodes where the woman made a blatant move, such as one woman who rubbed her breasts into my arms as I was talking to her friend :eek: but mostly not.
This also matches my experiences.
Back in college, the bathrooms of the Languages and Communications Building were known as a gay pick up place. As an engineering major, I rarely went there except for my Japanese classes and I never used the restrooms. However, I had to take the finals for one of my physics classes there once and I needed to go just before the test.
The restroom was huge, and fortunately empty, but I still went to the back corner. There were easily 30 other empty urinals so I figured it was “safe.” Next thing I knew there was another guy standing next to me staring at my dick.
Thirty some-odd years later, and I still remember the shock. I can totally get how unnerving an approach like that could be for woman. Hell, I was speechless.
The guy was small. Maybe 5’ 6" and 130 lbs. I’m six feet even and had a good 50 lbs on him so he wasn’t physically threatening, but had it been the reverse I can see how frightening it could be. There we were in the back of a restroom with no one else around.
I just told him to fuck off, which he did. I’d probably handle it better now, but I couldn’t think of anything better at the time.
There were a couple of other times where guys were pretty pushy, but again this is nothing which most women have to deal with far more often.
As a separate note, my wife is the type that prefers to be invisible all the time. She doesn’t like people to notice her, even though she is attractive (IMHO, of course) and dresses nicely.
Now that I’m in my mid-50s with a graying beard, I’m not noticed by either sex, which is nice.
Wow…when we first met, you were still a single lady! Best wishes on your wedding, and congratulations on the kids!
I’ve gotten over this thread already. The woman I mentioned in that post had a great sense of style – the butch hairdo and chunky specs and lace-up flat heel boots paired with the sexy feminine sleeveless patterned top and poufy miniskirt – and her stylin’ was well worth a compliment. She put thought and work into her look that day, instead of slipping into a dowdy schmatte, so why not offer a quick and leer-free appreciation?
haha not “the thang”… Not right away