Lawyers, Law Students and Professionals - Suit advice, please.

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m a first-year law student and have final oral arguments coming up for the moot court portion of my legal research and writing class. The project involved researching and producing an appellate brief in pairs, with an oral argument as the culmination of the project. Because the record presented two issues, the idea was that the partners work largely on one issue, and each issue is argued in succession.

“Business attire” is the code for final arguments. Here’s the rub - because we had an uneven number of people in the section, my group was issued a third partner. Since my two partners collaborated on the first issue of the brief, we have to do two oral arguments so that each partner gets a chance to argue. I worked alone on my half, and so I argue twice. No big deal.

… except that she scheduled our arguments on two different nights. My wardrobe is not extensive, and I only own two suits. One is dark grey, and one is brown. (It’s the one brown suit in the hemisphere that looks good on me.)

On the one hand, it seems silly to wear the same suit to class on two consecutive days, and I worry that being seen in the same suit by the same panel both nights will look unprofessional. On the other, I worry that a brown suit looks unprofessional, too.

So, the question is, do I rewear the grey suit, or do I wear the brown suit one day?

Also, when I wear the brown suit, I generally wear a light-blue shirt and a tie that matches both of them (I have several, whereas most of my ‘power ties’ won’t work as well). The coloring looks fabulous on me. However, it’s markedly softer than the “dark suit, stiff white shirt and red tie” look that I expect the people who only argue once will all be wearing (and that I’ll be wearing at least once). If I end up wearing the brown suit, should I opt for wearing a white shirt or should I stick with my standard?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

2

Um. Perhaps I’m being hopelessly naive - but isn’t a suit a suit? You’re a year out of undergrad- how many suits does the law school expect you to own?

My guess would be that so long as you show up to class in a suit that approximates a state of cleanliness, that’ll be fine.

3

I second what Mr. Excellent said.

The only acceptable alternative is to wear the brown tuxedo Joe Pesci wore to court in My Cousin Vinny :smiley:

4

You do realize that most people only have two or three good suits and a ton of shirts and ties that go with them right? I do not think that it would be looked at as unprofessional. At least that has not been my experience in the professional world.

5

Wear the grey suit again but change the tie. And, of course, polish your shoes.

6

First things first: relax, because your judges likely know that your wardrobe is not yet extensive and will not count off if you wear the same suit twice. My fellow law students were in shock the day I showed up wearing a nice grey pinstripe suit. I got it at Goodwill for seven bucks, and though it’s not my favorite suit it’s nice enough that I’ll still wear it occasionally. My dad, a 30+ year trial lawyer, is a notoriously underdresser; he showed up for court in a suit once and the judge pretended not to know him and asked to see his bar card. Obviously, newer law types like you or I can’t get away with that yet. :wink:

My own rule is that for oral arguments or jury trials, starched white shirts, softer stuff with the colored shirts for lesser hearings or pleas or whatever. Most other lawyers seem to adhere to this rule as well, although I don’t know if it’s just coincidence or if it’s an unspoken rule. Brown suits aren’t unprofessional per se–if it looks professional to you, you’re probably okay.

7

Change the shirt color, the tie, the shoes, and the belt. No one will notice that the suit is the same.

Just hit the suit lightly with an iron or a steamer after the first night. Since it isn’t getting a chance to air, you’ll have to help it along.

8

Mini hijack:

So what was the legal scenario you were given for your appellate brief?

9

Long story short, it’s a medical malpractice case appealed from a Superior Court in Chatauqua County, New York, to the Appellate Division. In the first issue, a pair of recently-decided cases in New York’s appellate division had to be applied to determine whether the current case law or a reasonable application of it allows for a mother to collect emotional distress damages for the death of a live-born baby (as opposed to a stillborn baby, in which case it’s specifically allowed under the recent cases). The pregnant mother went to the hospital, where she was essentially ignored by the staff of the hospital despite signs that the baby was in distress. The baby was born, but died a day later. The argument is essentially whether a bright-line rule allowing recover for a stillborn baby but not a baby who happened to be born but died later from injuries stemming from the hospital’s negligence is acceptable, or whether the recent cases created a loophole that needs to be fixed.

The second issue, which I focused on, dealt with whether a private cause of action should be implied for the mother from New York’s Public Health Law - specifically, the Patient’s Bill of Rights. There’s an enforcement mechanism, but it involves the health commissioner (who has no duty to act on complaints), and the money paid out by the hospital is funneled back into the health care system rather than paid out to the person whose rights were violated. There’s a three-prong test (incorrectly applied by the lower court by evaluating only the first prong) to determine whether a private right of action can fairly be implied from a statute that doesn’t explicitly grant it.

The defendant hospital moved for summary judgment. The lower court denied it and the defendant hospital appealed. I’m representing the plaintiff-respondent mother.

10

If you’re a 1L, you’re doing OCI in the fall. In which case, you will wear the same suit every day for a month. (We had lockers at school, so wore street clothes for class, then changed for interviews.) You’ll also wear the same suit to all your callbacks. So use this as an opportunity to try out your brown suit and see what people think. Or use it as an opportunity to change up the look with your other suit.

Amp, PunditLisa, pravnik et al. have it right – most guys have a couple three good suits, and simply change them up with different shirts, ties, etc. Me? I’d wear the “power” suit the first night and the brown suit the second night. Why not, if it looks good on you? (It’s not like they’ll take points off for clothing choice.)

By the way, in case no one’s told you yet, the phrase “with all due respect” should not come out of your mouth at oral argument. It’s lawyer-speak for “I don’t respect you at all.” Something no one tells you until you say it to a judge. Good luck!

11

Don’t wear the brown suit. In the legal setting it’s about as gauche as a man wearing an earring. According to legend, Chief Justice Rehnquist once sent an attorney home to change because she showed up for oral argument in a brown suit. If you wear it, you won’t get marked down, but if the panel is meant to give you feedback on your argument it’s an even chance that they’ll mention the color of your suit. I would. That’s because in real life, you would be marked down for it.

The same suit on two days is perfectly fine. In this setting, If I were you I’d wear a white shirt one day and blue the next.

–Cliffy

12

Yeah, a disclaimer regarding the brown suit: I’m on the West Coast, where “business attire” is less formal than back East, so I think the brown suit would be fine. But this is the wild west where, for example, a woman can wear a pantsuit to court, whereas I understand that in DC or New York, that’s the functional equivalent of showing up to court naked. :eek:

13

A friend of mine is a Legal Research and Writing adjunct professor, and for the past bunch of years I have assisted him as a judge in his final moot court oral argument. My short answer is that it doesn’t matter one damn bit.

When I’m judging moot court (both in his class and elsewhere), I barely notice the clothes of the advocate, provided they are professionally dressed. I recognize that, particularly as first years, they don’t have an extensive professional wordrobe. If you have an innocuous grey suit, you could probably wear it two weeks before I noticed (but I’m somewhat unobservant on those types of points). Two nights in a row would be find. Similarly, if it is a professional brown suit, that would be fine as well.

This year, I noticed that one of the advocates was wearing what I thought was an outfit that was perfectly fine under the circumstances, but might be thought a bit informal in some of the local courts (she’d be fine in state civil court, but probably a little underdressed for federal). I whispered this to the Professor and asked if I should comment, and he said, emphatically, that I should not. He later explained that there had been an issue in a prior year where someone had commented on a female advocate’s outfit in a way she considered inappropriate, so the dress of the advocates was not something to be taken into consideration. I have no idea whether your school has a similar policy.

Good luck on your oral argument.

14

Not any more. Here in New York women commonly wear pants suits to court all the time. Years ago I heard that some federal judges took issue with women lawyers in pants suits, but not recently. In state trial courts, you see them all the time, and I even saw them when I was recently in the Appellate Division (intermediate appellate court).

15

We had moot court at Harvard, too. Everyone wore suits but no one got as worried about it as you are. I understand the worry about making sure you’re wearing a “conservative” suit when interviewing, but any presentable suit was good enough for moot court. Either option is just fine.

I wore a very uptight conservative black Austin Reed suit to my moot court orals. My partner’s suit was an outlandish purple. Nobody cared–or, at least, nobody commented.

I’d probably wear the brown if I were you.

16

The Supreme Court is a totally different story from a law school moot court, or even an every day average court appearance. It’s like going to the White House for dinner–there is a whole special set of etiquette rules that don’t apply to the rest of the world.

Brown suits are considered less formal than black, dark grey, navy blue, or pinstripe. But they’re just a notch or two down. So, while they’re not acceptable at the Supreme Court, you can wear a brown suit to appear in a trial court and sometimes even at an appellate court or state supreme court. (Of course, there are some wacko judges out there–I know one who sends women home for wearing trousers–but they’re hardly representative.) I don’t know where Cliffy practices, but I practiced in the Midwest, and brown suits were not considered universally gauche. Far from it. They’re just considered too informal for certain occasions.

The rule of thumb that I’ve observed is that one doesn’t wear “funny colored” suits to VERY SERIOUS OCCASIONS. If moot court is taken THAT SERIOUSLY at your school, then don’t wear the brown suit. I rather doubt it’s taken that seriously, though. It sure wasn’t at my school.

17

If your partner now practices law in Sacramento, I must tell you he still has the purple suit. And wears it to court.

18

As an aside, I wish that judges like that would have their fascist authority complexes turned sideways and shoved up their asses.

Don’t get me wrong. I understand the need for authority and respect for institutions. I am not a raving anarchist. I do not, for example, want to hear cellphones going off or gum being chewed or popped in a court room. Nor do I want to see people (if they can afford better) showing up in sweatpants or jeans.

But there is also taking something too far, and over the years I’ve gotten sick of bumping into courtrooms with peculiar and stupid rules that really appear to be there to satisfy the ego and authoritarian tendencies of a judge.

Justice is supposed to be blind, and available to the rich, the poor, the smart, and the stupid. Judges who send women home for wearing pants suits, or men home for wearing brown suits, worry me a bit. I think they should worry a bit more about making a wise decision, and a bit less about whether they are being shown the proper level of respect by counsel based on how shiny counsels’ shoes are.

19

Nah, my partner was a she–which made the purple suit somewhat less outlandish, but not by much–and I don’t think she actually practices.

20

Man, and here I already bought my morning coat.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. As it turns out, one of the judges had to cancel, and so I now have a good six days in between arguments - plenty of time to air out the dark grey suit, so I’ll feel a lot more comfortable with it.