Learning a Lesson?

The BBQ Pit
41

Sassy
Member posted 08-15-1999 06:43 PM

 “bold]I DON’T UNDERSTAND![/bold] Why would anyone continue to do something that they are clearly aware will be perceived badly?“

 You mean you’ve never done anything knowing that people won’t like it? Are you a slave to peer pressure? Are you one those women that can’t leave the house without full make-up because you’re afraid you’d be “perceived badly” if you were seen without make-up? When trying to understand your S.O.’s attitude to your requests, here are some things to consider:

  1. Is his inconvenience less than yours?
    Think about the costs to him. Is it stressful for him to keep track of everything you do and don’t like? Is he having to give up something that’s important to him? Is all of that less important than you getting what you want?

  2. Is it worth his while?
    Are you contributing to the relationship as much as he is? Are you making him want to stay in the relationship? Are you making him feel appreciated?

  3. Is it reasonable?
    Are you asking him to give up control over his own life? Are you bothered because it harms you, or do you just not like the idea of your S.O. doing or not doing such-and-such? Are you making him feel “whipped”? Is it really any of you’re business

  4. Are you asking to change his actions rather than his abilities?
    Are you asking him to be funnier? More fashion conscious? More charming? More romantic? While he can choose to do more funny or charming or romantic things, his basic level of humor, charm, or romanticism is not something he has chosen. You said that “to ignore or forget my preferences seems malicious”. Hmm, my dictionary says that “malicious” means “desiring to cause injury”. How is forgetting something desiring to cause injury? If your S.O. is forgetful, that’s not something he chose. Not doing something because he forgot is completely different than intentionally not doing something just to annoy you. I think you’ve set your standards too high.

  5. If you were in his place, would you go along?
    Don’t ask your S.O. to do what you wouldn’t. Relationships should be mutual, not unilateral. If you don’t let other people dictate what you do, you shouldn’t dictate what other people do. And if you do let other people dictate what you do, you have bigger problems than an unsupportive S.O.

    Ideally, the answer to all five of these questions should be “yes”. If some of the answers are “no”, you should reconsider your request. And if most of them are “no”, then you should drop the request.

Mr.Zambezi
Member posted 08-17-1999 10:04 AM

 "On a related note, why do men tend to drink more? Most guys I know consider a fun night out to include some pool and moderate quantities of beer. This does not seem to be true of women."

Your guess is as good as mine, but since you asked for it, here’s mine: it’s probably because men have been socialized into thinking that going out drinking with “the guys” is something guys do. Also, men are socialized to avoid showing emotions, at least not while sober. Drinking allows them an excuse to do things that wouldn’t be acceptable while sober.

-Ryan
" ‘Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter.’ " -Kurt Vonnegut, * Breakfast of Champions *

42

I was responding to.

I’ve gone back and read your post. You seemed to say, and I still think you’re saying, that he doesn’t drive recklessly and you wouldn’t say anything to him if he did.

My response directly addressed this. You don’t like my response? Tough. If you say something like that in public, I’m going to tell you what I think of it. I don’t like you response to me either but, hey, if I can’t take it, I shouldn’t have said something. Basically I said that your statements were irresponsible and lacked any long-term vision. You said my statements are rude. We both stand by our statements. So that’s the way it is. Too bad for both of us.

43

OK, how’s this? My opinion of a “maniac driver” is someone who breaks the traffic laws, goes more than 15 mph over the speed limit on the highway, or more than 5 mph over the speed limit on residential streets. Basically, if you hit someone and it’s going to be your fault (no fault doesn’t count) and it wouldn’t have happened had you followed the correct traffic laws, you were driving badly.

44

The Ryan

I really have to phrase my comments more carefully! What I was complaining about and trying to understand is people who do something they know will cause them trouble and then complaining about that same trouble. Seems to me this is in the same realm as repeatedly putting your hand on a hot stove and then complaining because it continues to burn.

As I have also said, I don’t personally have any complaints of this sort in regard to my own relationship. I would still like to respond to some of the statements…

That’s a very vague question, and - unfortunately - one which relies on a value judgement. What may seem to me to be no big deal may seem very inconvenient to someone else. I tend to think in terms of to whom it’s more important. I think that’s one of the starting points for reasonable compromise. I don’t ask anyone to keep track of “everything” I don’t like. I do ask that they pay attention to the things I tell them are truly important. I also try to keep track of how many things I am defining that way… everything can’t be #1. I have rarely asked someone to give up something that’s truly important to them… I don’t want a slave, I want a volunteer.

I feel very strongly that both people have a responsibility to constantly work on the relationship. I don’t want to be taken for granted and will work hard to make sure I don’t do that to my partner. OTOH, I can’t decide what is worth his while… he has to do that. I have asked, and hope that he is still complying, that he tell me if he feels I am not playing my part.

Again, that’s something that we all decide ourselves. I can make some judgements based on responses in the past, but I can never be sure until he tells me. If someone is being harmed, I will obviously make a huge fuss… but other than that, I always make the assumption that I am dealing with adults. Again, I want my partner to choose what he gives to me and to the relationship… but I also know that it’s not fair to play the mind-reader game. I tell him what I would like and he decides what he will do. We are both old enough that we don’t worry about “whipped” - that’s really just a term men use to describe reacting to peer pressure, isn’t it?

I think that you are taking my original argument farther than I intended. I was talking about simple actions - cleaning up, being on time, small courtesies. I was once involved with a man who could never “remember” to introduce me to people. I explained it repeatedly, but he couldn’t manage to remember – and he could easily remember other things, things that suited him – so I perceived it as a reflection of how important I was to him. I am no longer involved with him, and he is the loser! (that’s an opinion, of course…) It’s easy to say “I forgot” but it’s also easy to see who is really forgetful and who is just lazy - or malicious. In this case, I think he made a choice to forget.

** There is no such thing as setting my standards too high. I deserve to be treated in the fashion that makes me feel treasured – and so do you.

This is where it gets messy. I am far too likely to give in and go along… and I am actually working on standing up for myself and my needs. Unfortunately, like too many women, I was trained to give whatever he wanted and to hope he would decide to return the favor. That’s all well and good, but it’s hard for anyone to give you something you haven’t mentioned you want.

There! very verbose, and I could go on… but enough for now.

The reason gentlemen prefer blondes is that there are not enough redheads to go around.