The thinking would be that Love is planning on leaving as a free agent next summer (hard to blame him if he does), so trading him now would allow Minnesota to get something back for him. It’d be the same reason OKC traded Harden when they did. Love probably will get traded, but not for Bosh.
To be even semi-plausible, Bosh would have to be talked in to signing a cheap, long-term deal with Miami, then get blindsided by a trade for Love. It’s still not likely, better deals than that will be available to Minnesota, and there’s not much else Miami can throw in to sweeten the deal (Miami’s tradeable assets: the #26 pick, Norris Cole…that’s about it).
I think he’s wondering why Minnesota, trading Love, would want Bosh. The salaries aren’t that far apart, but Bosh is about five years older. But you are correct that Miami has very little to offer because they have essentially nobody else under contract. In talks with Golden State I think the Wolves wanted Klay Thompson, David Lee, and a first-round pick, plus they wanted Golden State to take Kevin Martin’s salary (three years/$21 million). Miami wouldn’t have anything to offer other than Bosh and the draft pick, and there’s no way in hell they want to take Kevin Martin’s salary.
They’d want Bosh if he was the best offer they got (and assuming that they’re committed to trading him, as opposed to trying to entice him to stay). There’s no way they’d be interested in Bosh at 1 year/$20.5 million, Bosh would have to re-sign with Miami first.
Even if Bosh signs at a huge hometown discount (say, 3 years/$24 million), and Miami tosses in Cole and the #26 pick, it won’t be the best offer Minnesota gets. So, Miami ain’t getting Love, unless it’s next summer as a free agent.
That demand from Minny of G-State seems awfully steep unless they can work a sign-and-trade…trading the house for Love and having him leave after a year would implode the franchise.
Right, but between Golden State and Boston and maybe Chicago getting involved it’s easy to see better offers coming. I’m not sure why the between the Wolves and Warriors to go off the rails, but I expect they’ll resume at some point. But if Minnesota wants young players, Miami has nothing right now.
Eh, if I were Golden State, I’d take that deal. Kevin Martin isn’t terrible, just overpaid. Though if they were thinking about dumping Klay because they didn’t want to pay him in the future, then ownership is probably not going to want to take on his salary. But Curry, Love, Martin, Igudala, and Bogut is a decent starting 5, plus they get to keep Harrison Barnes. I can totally see that team vaulting into the top 4 in the West. The great thing about Love is that he does everything, so his value is more than just as a PF. There’s no way I’d take an aging Bosh if I were the Wolves for Love, I’d shop him for a high draft pick first because I’m at least assured of a decent one in the top 7 or 8 that will play for pennies for 4-5 years.
Absolutely, like I said, Love isn’t going to Miami. I was just noting why Love might get traded, even if it’s not a good return, because he might walk away as a free agent. You are correct, Miami can’t make a competitive offer for Love.
What if Love, like Andre Iguodala and Dwight Howard before him, leaves next summer? That’s a gamble a team like Boston can afford, they aren’t winning now anyway. But the Warriors have the pieces to contend right now; the Spurs are old, Miami might be breaking up and have nobody under contract, and OKC may have peaked already. Just because Mark Jackson (and no offense to the man, but rah-rah and Jesus isn’t enough at the NBA level) couldn’t get them out of the second round doesn’t mean Kerr can’t. That seems like a smarter gamble than betting on Love to re-sign with you. Plus, if you go that route, and whoever does trade for Love sees him leave in the summer, you get a shot at signing him then without having to give up anything.
If they can work a sign-and-trade, though, it’s a different story.
He’s better in that regard than Martin (or Curry) because of his rebounding; rebounding is part of defense. Limiting teams to one-shot possessions limits their scoring, even if their one shot is a high-percentage one.
I think any team trading for Love now must do a sign any trade, my response is assuming he does that. You can’t give up a young scoring machine like Klay Thompson without guarantees. If there’s no sign and trade, then I absolutely would not make that deal.
So how far do you guys thinks Embiid is going to drop now that he has foot surgery and is out for 4-6 months? Admittedly, all I know about him is what’s been reported, Arn Telllum, his agent, is apparently being secretive about his medical records. But a big guy with a back and foot surgery before he gets into the NBA? I don’t think I can take a chance on him if I’m anywhere in the top 10 picks. There’s just too many good to great players that are more sturdy than a 7 foot guy who may end up like Greg Oden. Even if he drops down to my Lakers, I can’t see us taking that risk if we still have a shot at a solid starter like Marcus Smart or Julius Randle
That’s its own can of worms, though. It means Love can only be traded to a team he wants to play for, and it means he’ll go to a team that’s denuded of assets. If you’re Love, and you want to make the playoffs, would you rather sign-and-trade to a team, or hold off on a new deal, either get traded or not, and sign to a contender next summer without stripping that contender of good young players in the process? For that reason, I think a sign-and-trade is unlikely, but there are enough teams willing to trade for Love and hope like hell to re-sign him that I bet he still gets traded.
He’ll still go top 10, absolutely, the NBA drafts on upside and potential. Cleveland may pass, since they’re in perpetual win-now mode, but I can’t see Embiid sliding past the top 6. Philly at #3 might be the one, since the Bucks have Larry Sanders and need wing talent badly.
In fact, Philly’s smart new front-office guys may have figured out an interesting lottery wrinkle: draft raw talent that’s injured. Last year, they played Nerlens Noel 0 minutes, ensuring that he didn’t help them win any extra games, and giving him time to just rehab and work on fundamentals. Now, they have a chance to draft Embiid, sit him all season while their assistant coaches teach him fundamentals, draft another player in the top 3 of next year’s draft, and then they’re ready to try to win games, with a war chest of elite young talent and a clean cap sheet (the Sixers have just $9 million committed to '15-'16).
Not fun for their fans, but it might get them from disaster to up-and-comer in a hurry.
Why leave Miami to spend your winters back in Cleveland, where they hate you anyway? Is there *any *amount of mere money that could entice him to make that move?
“Pruned”, then? Maybe I think more highly of Klay Thompson than you do (to say nothing of the pick they’d be giving up), but losing him would sting pretty badly. He’s a historically great 3-point shooter who is still improving his off-the-bounce game. Further, his defensive chops, which allow Curry to hide on whichever backcourt player is the least threatening, are a big part of what let Golden State win 51 games in a brutal conference with shaky coaching and 2 of the 5 or so worst defensive players in the league starting for them. He’s the protoype for what shooting guards are going to look like going forward.
He’s already, what, the fourth best 2-guard in the league, after Harden, Afflalo, Kobe, and Wade, with the latter two aging in dog years? Maybe throw Lance Stephenson in that conversation.
I have no idea what Love’s priorities are, in terms of money vs. security vs. prestige vs. playoff odds, but after seeing in Minny how great offense/awful defense gets you nowhere, he shouldn’t be falling over himself to play behind a Curry/Martin backcourt/sieve. Just wait a year, then play with Curry-Thompson-Iggy-Bogut, or Beverley-Harden-Parsons-Howard, or wherever he’d like.
I think the right word there is “improved,” but either way, you can’t tell me a team with Curry, Love, Iguodala and Bogut plus some useful role players like Barnes and Green is denuded or lacking players.
That’s still a 50-win team, sure, but I don’t know that it would be any more successful than the team was with Thompson and Lee (I’m a bit of a Love skeptic, for one). Remember, I’m speaking of Love’s perspective, from which a team without Thompson, Lee, or Draft Pick X is substantially worse than a team with those guys.
I don’t agree. Not all defensive rebounds are created equal – if you’re establishing rebounding position instead of contesting shots, as Love does all the god-damned time, more defensive rebounds are coming at the cost of playing worse defense, not as an indicator of what you’re adding on defense.
Your second sentence just doesn’t follow. “Limiting” a team to a layup so you can be virtually guaranteed to secure the rebound if he misses does not limit that team’s scoring. This is what Love helps you to do. He isn’t going to protect the rim, which limits what your other help defenders can do. Opponents shot almost 65% against him close to the basket; the only people worse than him at that were his teammates who he wasn’t helping out on. And it’s not like it’s a sample size thing; other teams took the ball to the rim against him as often as they did against LeBron or Andre Drummond.
Saying someone is better than Kevin Martin on defense is very close to not saying anything at all about him, anyway. Either way, Love is a total trainwreck on defense, and it’s something you have to be very mindful of when you’re thinking of selling the farm for him. If he’s a 14 rebound a game guy, it’s one who doesn’t defend. If you’re going to ask him to defend like a big man is supposed to defend these days, don’t expect 14 boards.
Lebron, Bosh, and Wade will resign for less, and the Heat will sign Ariza or Lowry or (god forbid) both.
Love gets traded to Golden State along with Kevin Martin for Lee and Thompson. Some picks and secondary guys might get thrown in. If Bogut can stay healthy, they’re a contender. Bogut can’t stay healthy. Maybe they’re still a contender.
Carmelo goes to Chicago. If Rose can stay healthy they’re a contender.
Deng could be a guy that moves someone up a notch, but there seem to be no rumors about him.
OKC does nothing and hopes Ibaka, Adams, Jackson get a little better and that’s enough. It might finally be that year.
San Antonio signs no one significant and finally gets old (I’ve been saying that for like five years).
Well, yeah, he’s a bad defender, albeit one that’s a little better than Martin, because he can rebound. If Martin’s a 0, Love is a 1. I didn’t intend to suggest that Love’s rebounding compensated for his defensive weaknesses to make him a net plus defender. He’s bad, just not as bad as Martin (or Curry, or Harden, take your pick of turnstile defenders who just poke at the ball).
Re: this part, would you not agree that a bad defensive team (say, one that allows teams to shoot 65% near the rim) that can’t rebound will score more points than an identically bad defensive team that can? Again, it won’t transform bad defense into good, but it’ll make it somewhat less bad.
Golden State won’t be terrible because Love’s rebounding should compliment them. Nobody on Minnesota plays defense, so that’s a moot point, but Iguodala’s one of the better wing defenders in the league. They’ve got a hard-nosed bench guy in Harrison Barnes. If Love goes there and grabs rebounds, that opens them up much more for fast breaks and that team is, if anything, fast. It should at least help their defense a bit and it won’t hurt their scoring at all.
What’s Deng’s situation in Cleveland? Last I heard, he hates it there. Is he a free agent?
They already have David Lee, who plays bad defense and grabs a lot of rebounds. Love’s value is in his combination of size and great shooting. You can’t expect much else.
Yes, he’s a free agent.
I realize this thread is more about LeBron than Carmelo, but it looks like the Knicks are going to trade Tyson Chandler and Ray Felton to Dallas for Sam Dalembert, Jose Calderon, and Shane Larkin. That’ll help the Mavs on defense and it looks to me like kind of a lateral move for the Knicks. ESPN says it gives the Knicks more flexibility, but last I knew, they’re over the cap even if they lose Melo for nothing.
