Lesbian's partner is on her deathbed. Inform her estranged, homophobic, much-missed parents?

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@dangermom

Frankie could call them and not tell them a location. For all they know she could be in California. Gauge the situation. Then they’d know at least.

(Although, the logic of the story breaks down here. They’re on a trip to visit Frankie’s parents…next door to Jonni’s parents, but all this time Jonni’s parents have never noticed the kids visiting next door?)

1. Point to the spot in the OP where it says Jonni’s parents are unaware of the existence of the children. You can’t, because there is no such spot.

2. Just because Frankie and Jonni grew up next door to one another doesn’t mean their parents are still next-door neighbors. F & J are in their mid-30s, so it’s been 17-19 years since Jonni’s father slapped Frankie and Frankie’s father replied by beating him up. Even apart from the awkwardness that likely followed that incident, people move.

3. I fear that (1) and (2) may have come off a little harsh, so I have directed the Confections Department to deliver you 144 lollipops of assorted flavors.

[slash2k]

@ddsun

The girls are genetically Frankie’s. The estranged parents have no standing to take them. I would think a DNA test would end that pretty quickly.

DNA doesn’t mean squat. What matters is who is legally (not genetically, but LEGALLY) the parent(s). If Jonni’s name is on the birth certificate, then they are Jonni’s kids, and Jonni’s parents would have some legal say.

Do any states that don’t recognize same-sex marriage recognize two same-sex parents adopting together? I don’t think so, which means the kids legally are the children of only one parent. If that one parent is Jonni, then Frankie may be the genetic mother but has no legal right to the kids, and would be in for one heck of court battle if Jonni’s parents assert themselves.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@slash2k

DNA doesn’t mean squat. What matters is who is legally (not genetically, but LEGALLY) the parent(s). If Jonni’s name is on the birth certificate, then they are Jonni’s kids, and Jonni’s parents would have some legal say.

Do any states that don’t recognize same-sex marriage recognize two same-sex parents adopting together?

Yep. I can’t name them, but I did a quick survey while writing the OP to decide where Frankie & Jonni lived. I changed their residence from Massachussetts to Mississippi because the former state both allows SSM and SS-partner adoption, while the latter does not. Go to Wikipedia, search for LGBT rights by state, and you can find them if you want.

[RandMcnally]

Damn song is stuck in my head now, which isn’t all bad because I like the song.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

NM

[YogSothoth]

Frankie should call Jonni’s parents, tell them that she’s dying and ask if they’d be willing to come see her and make up. If they react negatively and refuse to amend their ways, hang up on them without telling them which hospital they’re in. If they react positively, then let them come.

[slash2k]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

NM

The song Frankie and Johnny.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@slash2k

The song Frankie and Johnny.

I realized that after my post, which is why I edited it to say never mind. I referred to the song in the OP, after all.

[stillownedbysetters]

1. Frankie should first call her parents and tell them what is happening. If she’s lucky, they’ll offer to contact Jonni’s parents themselves.

2. If Jonni’s parents are contacted and want to come, Frankie and the children should be somewhere else when the parents come. They should not even know the children exist unless Jonni regains consciousness and wants them to know.

3. Ultimately, Frankie has to think about the survivors - she and her children - and what is best for them. She has to wake up and look at herself in the mirror every morning for the rest of her life. In order for her to live with what she sees, she has to go with her conscience and do what she truly feels is right.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@stillownedbysetters

1. Frankie should first call her parents and tell them what is happening. If she’s lucky, they’ll offer to contact Jonni’s parents themselves.

2. If Jonni’s parents are contacted and want to come, Frankie and the children should be somewhere else when the parents come. They should not even know the children exist unless Jonni regains consciousness and wants them to know.i

That’s nuts. Leaving the hospital is just asking for the parents to hijack the situation, try to assert themselves as next of kin, and so on. Remember, this is happening in Alabama; Jonnie & Frankie’s marriage is not legally recognized.

Also, as I wrote upthread, there is nothing in the OP to say that Jonni’s parents don’t know about their granddaughters. Jonni’s been trying to reconcile with them – no, scratch that, trying to get them to reconcile with her – for years; surely she called them while pregnant, or when her daughters were babies, to inform them they were grandparents.

[stillownedbysetters]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

That’s nuts. Leaving the hospital is just asking for the parents to hijack the situation, try to assert themselves as next of kin, and so on. Remember, this is happening in Alabama; Jonnie & Frankie’s marriage is not legally recognized.

Also, as I wrote upthread, there is nothing in the OP to say that Jonni’s parents don’t know about their granddaughters. Jonni’s been trying to reconcile with them – no, scratch that, trying to get them to reconcile with her – for years; surely she called them while pregnant, or when her daughters were babies, to inform them they were grandparents.

Perhaps the parents could/would try to usurp Jonni’s care, but in all honesty, does it really matter? Jonni only has hours to live in any case, and most likely won’t regain consciousness. What can they really do? Frankie and the children could have said their goodbyes before the parents arrive.

I think they’d be much more likely to raise a stink if the children WERE there when they arrived. They might call authorities, police, child services, whatever. The only safe place for Frankie and the children is somewhere other than that hospital if the parents show up.

Perhaps the very best place for Frankie and the children would be the office of whatever local attorney she could temporarily retain to protect them from the parents.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@stillownedbysetters

Perhaps the parents could/would try to usurp Jonni’s care, but in all honesty, does it really matter? Jonni only has hours to live in any case, and most likely won’t regain consciousness. What can they really do? Frankie and the children could have said their goodbyes before the parents arrive.

I think they’d be much more likely to raise a stink if the children WERE there when they arrived. They might call authorities, police, child services, whatever. The only safe place for Frankie and the children is somewhere other than that hospital if the parents show up.

Perhaps the very best place for Frankie and the children would be the office of whatever local attorney she could temporarily retain to protect them from the parents.

Oh, I have no problem with the kids being elsewhere (simplest solution is with Frankie’s parents). Frankie herself shouldn’t leave, though.

[Miller]

@StusBlues

Call me Edmund Burke if you must, but some traditional values are there for a reason. A parent should know when their child is dying.

The only parents I see in this story are Frankie and Jonni.

Oh, and Frankie’s dad.

[akennett]

This one is beyond simple. Jonni’s parents are complete and total assholes and contacting them would potentially cause major problems. Jonni is a goner and may not even wake up. So, Frankie should most definitely not contact them (ever!), and instead tell Jonni a little white lie (“Yes, dear, I called them. They said they are so very sorry for everything, and they are on their way.”) should she ask. And she shouldn’t feel one iota of guilt for doing so.

Protecting her kids and making Jonni feel the most at ease in her final moments are the only things that should matter for Frankie in this situation.

[Senegoid]

So suppose Frankie does call Johnni’s parents and then makes sure she (Frankie) is away from the hospital with the kids when J’s parents descend upon the scene.

I don’t think it’s been specifically clarified who the kids’ legal parents are. If Johnni’s, then the parents could call the police, accuse Frankie of kidnapping, get a nationwide Amber alert sent out, the works. Frankie could end up in jail and who knows where the kids will end up.

How about this: Wait a few years until the kids are adults. THEN call Frankie’s parents. Or drop them an anonymous note, perhaps with directions to Johnni’s grave in case they are interested.

[Octarine]

@akennett

So, Frankie should most definitely not contact them (ever!), and instead tell Jonni a little white lie (“Yes, dear, I called them. They said they are so very sorry for everything, and they are on their way.”) should she ask. And she shouldn’t feel one iota of guilt for doing so.

That’s an interesting idea. It reminds me a thread we had here a while back, asking abut the ethics of lying to a person in their final moments. TBH, I’m not sure if it’s what I’d do, but I don’t think I’d criticize Frankie if she chose to tell Jonni her parents had finally accepted her.

@Senegoid

How about this: Wait a few years until the kids are adults. THEN call Frankie’s parents. Or drop them an anonymous note, perhaps with directions to Johnni’s grave in case they are interested.

Waitaminnut - can Jonni’s parents reclaim the children even if Frankie’s in a liberal state, like CA? If so . . . wow. I’d assumed all Frankie needed to do was cross the border with her kids and they would be safe.

[slash2k]

@Octarine

Waitaminnut - can Jonni’s parents reclaim the children even if Frankie’s in a liberal state, like CA? If so . . . wow. I’d assumed all Frankie needed to do was cross the border with her kids and they would be safe.

If Frankie and the kids are a legal residents of (or can establish legal residency in) California, then California law applies and she can ask the California courts for any necessary orders.

Otherwise, the general view would be that the courts in the place of residence have jurisdiction, and that would be Mississippi (or possibly Alabama, based on the grandparents’ residence). California would generally be obligated to enforce court orders obtained from the home state.

If Jonni is the legal parent, then her parents could obtain custody and expect to have that custody order enforced in all fifty states. No state’s courts are going to be overly sympathetic to non-residents or temporary visitors when another state is the proper venue.

[slash2k]

The Uniform Child-Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act would be the controlling law. Exclusive jurisdiction to make custody decisions is vested in the child’s “home state” (the state in which they were living for six months prior to the custody proceeding), so Mississippi would be proper venue in the OP’s scenario.

[TokyoBayer]

@stillownedbysetters

Perhaps the parents could/would try to usurp Jonni’s care, but in all honesty, does it really matter? Jonni only has hours to live in any case, and most likely won’t regain consciousness. What can they really do? Frankie and the children could have said their goodbyes before the parents arrive.

Have you been reading the thread? There are countless stories out there of parents coming in, fighting for custody of the children, trying to get assets, and taking over funeral arraignments.

These all matter.

Back when the SSM bans were enacted in Utah in response to SSM becoming legal in other states, the Mormon dominated Utah legislature passed specific bills prohibiting joint adoption by SSM couples.

Jonni should wait to tell Frankie’s parents until SSM is legally recognized in her home state.

[Urbanredneck]

@SanVito

So you haven’t read the rest of the thread, with the parts about the parents having a fit at the bedside, having Frankie excluded and the kids take away then? After all, a phone call hurt right?

Maybe. Maybe not. I’d opp that the parents should at least know of such things. All the bad things described are speculation and worse case scenario and could easily be avoided. Theres much more to gain than lose here.