Let's finish it over here, gobear...

The BBQ Pit
1

Conversation begun in the Gary Trudeau thread, for anyone who cares.

Latest from gobear:

Since when does a “small sampling” of people who are simply * unwilling to stick up for the guy * translate into “universally detested”?

I know the basis for your sweeping assertion, you don’t need to reiterate it. That was precisely my point. You dislike him, you’ve talked to some other folks who aren’t crazy about him…that hardly adds up to “You are universally detested on this board” being a true statement, does it? Nope. So why say it? What are you trying to prove? What is the point?

And I confess I’m completely stumped about what you are saying when you say you are “okay” with the ugly remark… are you saying you have no quarrel with my characterization of your remark as such? Are you saying you have no problem actually * being * fuckin’ ugly in your conversation around here?

I have mentioned this kind of thing before. I find it hard to let it lie when I see it. * Anyone * declaring that they speak for * everyone * on this board is ridiculous. To do so as a means of trashing another poster is so unattractive… and since we all know it isn’t true, it really doesn’t do anything to bolster your argument.

If you dislike someone and feel like you just HAVE to express it (though why you feel such a need I don’t understand, but that’s a different discussion), fine. Have the courage of your own dislike and speak for yourself. What does it matter if 1, 10, or 1000 people agree with your negative opinion of someone? That doesn’t make it any more right or wrong. It’s yours, buy it own it use it make it a part of your life.

But please…don’t claim to be speaking for everyone when you do, because it simply is not true.

stoid

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I enjoy and agree with many of GoBear’s posts, but I have to agree with Stoid on this.

To accuse someone of being “universally detested” is a pretty low thing to do. It’s also untrue - I don’t detest Chas E. I’d say the worst he’s been accused of is being arrogant and opinionated and that’s far from the worst traits someone can have (As an opinionated arrogant bastard myself I have to say that).

He’s rather well informed in some fields, as was seen in the recent “Are my photoshop manipulated blurry enlargements of Nasa reprints proof of alien civilization on the moon” thread in GD recently. I also found it rather heartening to see him and Spoofe on the same side of that argument. Then again, if the argument had been “…proof that Aliens hate Windows” it might have been a different story.

Also, and this is the crux, he has excellent taste in punk music and science fiction. How the hell can you not give someone points for that?

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Woo-hoo, my first Pit thread, I AM somebody!

OK, Stoid, I appreciate you coming to Chas E.'s defense; you are a kinder and more tolerant person than I. Given that two posters have stuck up for him, I will withdraw my statement that Chas E is universally detested. I still think the guy is a jerk.

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I appreciate the support, but gobear still doesn’t get it. This isn’t about whether or not I am a jerk, this is about gobear being a jerk. Stoid’s original complaint makes no mention of me whatsoever (other than the quote) and merely takes gobear to task for his offensive behavior.

5

Horsefeathers! In the original thread, you boasted of having a high IQ score as a child. I pointed out how silly a thing that is to boast of. YOU responded in a typically condescending manner, “Aw, the Normal is jealous.” I then responded by pointing out that I, too, score well on IQ tests, but I think that if you have to brag about that, you must not have much else in your life to be proud of. Who knows, maybe IRL you’re a really great guy who is warm, compassionate, and witty. But in your posts you come across as cold, condescending, and priggish.

Yes, I was wrong in saying that the board detests you. It’s enough that I detest you.

Perhaps I am a jerk, but at least when I am wrong, I apologize. I have never seen you apologize for anything you have said.

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Jesus, SToid-I thought you were against personal attacks on poster statements in the Pit. Guess it’s only if You are the one being attacked.

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Still doesn’t get it. This has nothing to do with whether or not I am a jerk. You can’t justify your own jerky behavior by claiming I am a jerk.
I have apologized many times for things I’ve said, but you seem incapable of doing so, or even recognizing that this is the time for you to do so.

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My philosophy was and is always consistent:

“Attack the post, not the poster”

stoid

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Ummm…

Gee, Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius, I believe I just did. **Stoid ** busted me for saying “universally” and urged me to speak only for myself. I said I was wrong, what else do you require?

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**gobear **, Chas is correct. My original and continuing issue is not whether he is or is not a jerk,or whether you are justified in your dislike of him. It is about whether it is true, fair, correct or even desirable to make the statement “You are universally despiseed on this board” about * anyone *. Because it is impossible to know whether that is true, and I’d venture to guess that it is almost impossible for it to be true. Even Hitler still has his admirers. (Not that I am comparing Chas to Hitler, of course, only pointing out that even the very worst people are liked and admired by somebody, so such declarations are almost without fail wrong.)

So, to be clear:

It doesn’t matter who you were talking about, gobear, it was what you were saying that I had a problem with.

stoid

PS: I had meant to say this in the OP, and now it’s probably too late: I’d very much like it if this thread did NOT become a dissection of Chas E.'s personality and who does or does not like him. Thanks so much.

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People, I have already withdrawn my statement three times. Can you people not read? I speak only for myself. Criminy, am I typing in invisible font?

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I heardja… I was just clarifying that it was not person-specific.

I would like to acknowledge you for your contrition regarding your speech. Well done, sir.

As am I.

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Let me break it down for you. I retracted my statement here

and here

and again here

yet neither of you have acknowledged the retraction. I’m not apologizing for thinking Chas Eis a jerk, but I am, for the FOURTH time, apologizing for speaking for anyone but me, which is, if I understand Stoid correctly, the crux of the biscuit.
[sub]Actually, the crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.[/sub]

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Ooops, sorry, crosspost. Never mind.

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Doncha just hate when that happens? :smiley:

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With apparently the codicile of “attack my re-interpretation of the poster’s position, not the position, even when corrected by several others.” That’s been my personal opinion not only when you and I are on opposite sides of a debate (which actually doesn’t happen often), but also when we’re in agreement.

(aside to gobear I saw ya appologize, but, I’m just chopped liver, myself)

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Umm… err… sure. Okay. Whatever.

:confused:

(You may not llke the way I argue, wring, and you are entitled to that opinion, but the bottom line is that I do not attack people personally. I attack what they say and the arguments they present. I’m not gonna re-hash our last tangle here, so don’t go there. Or if you do, know that you go alone. If you have some particular beef with me, I invite you to email me about it.)

stoid

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Thanks for the kind words, Stoid. I will wait for Chas E to acknowledge my retraction, but I suspect Godot will arrive before that happens.

<puts on hat and waits next to a tree on a small hill>

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you posted, publically, a position- claiming that it is your personal platform. I disagree that you clearly take that platform, and specifically mentioned that both in cases where we’re on the same side, and on opposite sides you have a tendancy to claim erroneous positions for others, ignoring it when corrected. Yes, the most recent clash was one of the more blatent examples in recent memory and where we disagreed, but it certainly was not the only one.

I brought it publically because you have specifically stated more than once that you ‘don’t do the pit’. Yet, here you are calling some one else out on manners (and from a pit thread, no less - tho’ I agree with the essential point that claiming ‘nobody likes you’ is not a tactic to take) - when you personally have had rudeness pointed out to you, and you ignore it.

So, since you saw it fit to call some one else out publically for rudeness in the PIT, I thought it was appropriate to suggest that you do a better job on keeping yourself in check before pointing out other’s errors.

Take it to email? no thanks, it’s an appropriate and direct response to something you chose to put out in public. If you have no desire to respond, doesn’t matter to me. However, I’ve seen you post that line before, and thought “how ironic”.

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When you can show examples of me making personal attacks against my fellow posters, your disagreement will have some substance.

And if you are paying such close attention, you would know that I have stated repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly… I do not “do the pit” when people want to trash me personally or trash anyone else personally. I have never, ever said simply “I don’t do the pit” and it would soooooo nice if people would stop saying that I said that and giving me shit about being in the pit as though you have “caught me” me doing something I said I wouldn’t do, you haven’t.

I’m in the pit all the time, I’m just not in here attacking my fellow dopers personally or participating while they attack me personally. Do you understand that distinction? I don’t think it’s really all that complex.

Again, I am going after what gobear ** said , not ** gobear, it’s really not a fine line at all. More importantly, my point was to do what we all do around here all day long, which was to * point out the inaccuracy of his statement * , which I * also *happen to find distasteful * because it is a personal attack *, and I did comment upon that. I didn’t “call him out” for it. These are different things entirely.

No I don’t. I respond to it. I may not get down and beg your forgiveness for your decision to be offended by your interpretation of something I said, but I do respond.

What is extremely ironic here is that you are talking about statements I made that * you elected to interpret in a certain way. * When I told you your interpretation was incorrect, you persisted in * telling me what I meant. * Interestingly, isn’t that exactly what you are bitched out at me about?

I think that statement applies perfectly to YOU, wring.

You said something, I said it was the equivalent of something else, and you got upset about it. Seems you are getting upset at your misinterpretation of me, you are getting upset at my misinterpretation of you… I guess if you don’t get to be the final arbiter of what * everybody * means there’s just no winning with you, is there?

Once more… I wouldn’t have busted gobear for simply being rude…I figure he’s aware of how rude he wants to be or not. I was busting him on dragging everyone else into it. If you see me telling gobear he should apologize for his rudeness, you will have a point. Til then, you are trying to hard to find an excuse to work out your issues with me.

Besides, If I spent time busting people on being rude, I’d be doing nothing else all day long. (In the pit or out of it. I find it amazing the way people use the pit as * carte blanche * to be as nasty as they wanna be. As I’ve said before, just because there’s a special place where we can go beat each other up, that doesn’t mean we have to actually DO it, does it?)

Guess what? It is * never * ** appropriate** for you to tell me how I should behave. You are not a mod or admin of this board, you are not my friend, and you are not my relative. If you feel the need, you have the right to express your opinion. Beyond that…nah. I’m a grown up lady, I say what I mean and I mean what I say, I know who I am and I’m good with it.

stoid