Isn’t it a little…messy… to be dancing in Salsa?, do you start out with the Mild then step up to Medium and then Hot?, isn’t it also a little wasteful of perfectly good food?, I can’t see the appeal here…
Which Salsa is the best for dancing in? Chi-Chi’s, Pace, some fancy-schmantzy organic brand, or just the cheapo Acme Lots-'O-Veggies brand?
I think I’ve been lucky. I’ve had some mediocre leads, but I’ve also had some very good leads, and some downright excellent leads (dancing with the salsa instructors in town is always fun!). There’s only one lead who I will not dance with, and he does ballroom salsa and expects me to be a mind-reader. So no dancing with him. I’ll even dance with the new/beginner leads, because whilst that doesn’t make me look cute, it gives them practice outside of class, and I can, just about, “lead from the follow”. It takes more work, but the way I figure it, if I only dance with the brilliant leads, it makes me look like a snotty so and so and nothing much else.
Exactly. A good lead will give you a good cue and subtle clues (or sometimes not so subtle. I’m looking at you C for getting me to do the right styling in rueda! ) as to what you need to be doing and when. I end up dancing about 5 times a week, so I get lots of practice in too!
I can switch between Zumba and club/studio style pretty easily (heck, on a Monday I go to Zumba, go home, change and eat and am at a rueda lesson within an hour!), but it probably helps that the Zumba teacher is also a salsa dancer, so its all good.
I also dislike Zumba because I hate the instructor’s style. She’s not very precise, so when you’re trying to follow unfamiliar steps, she sees something shiny and wanders offline, singing along and waving her arms about and I get totally lost. Most of the rest of the class knows her routines, but I don’t attend as often and the newbies are always lost. It seems like she’d rather turn Zumba into karaoke :rolleyes: so I basically quit going and am just sticking to pole dancing (which is why I joined that studio in the first place). I also think that sometimes, her beat is really off and that messes me up. Maybe she’s using a 3-count and really shouldn’t be, but I have no experience with any other Zumba instructor, so I dunno if she sucks or if Latin rhythms are particularly difficult to learn to dance to.
Dancing well can be difficult. Teaching dancing well must be a rare skill.
Aaaah, wires crossed! Yes, when I took salsa lessons, in the studio, yes, I would dance with others, even the beginners. It is true, gives them practice which is what they need.
But most of my practice comes from the club, with strangers, and unlucky for me, even if I really only want to dance, I get quite a few who ask for a dance hoping for some more. With the good leads, at least, I enjoy a good dance before sending them off. 
I dance with the newbies even at club and studio social nights. Its no skin off my nose, and people who know me, know I can dance.
:eek::eek:Your dance clubs are also meat markets??! I dance both in studio socials and clubs, and was highly resistant to go to clubs precisely because I was convinced that someone would dance and want more. I guess it might be a different culture here, or it might be that our dance community is so small and everyone knows everyone else, but there’s really not that vibe in the salsa club nights I go to, even when I’m dancing with people I don’t know. Its just all about the dancing. To an extent. No one’s tried to hit on me when dancing, but that may be because people figure I’m involved with someone else anyway.
Eh… it’s just like a regular club? Granted, I do not go to the studio-sponsored nights, but even the salsa lessons offered at a club early in the evening can turn to something more much later. Early in the evening, they teach lessons, are patient, and it’s mostly instruction. Later, not so much.
I go to Latin nights or Latin clubs, yes. In cities known to have lots of young people/college towns.
You do realize, for Hispanics, salsa dancing IS one of their club rhythms, right? It’s not just ballroom style.
Um, yeah. I am not stupid, and like I say, I’ve been learning club style rather than anything else. I’d be crap in a ballroom situation!
I guess its a difference in culture – I tend to stick to the studio sponsored club nights where the aim is to dance and have a good time rather than to be clubbing/looking to score as such. And yes, before you ask, there’s a large proportion of Hispanic people present. Maybe its the mostly smaller community and the fact I stick to studio socials and studio-sponsored club nights that’s the difference.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m well aware of the club scene, but I go out to dance and not to be hit on. I guess the smaller community, and everyone mainly knowing everyone else, makes it less likely. That plus it tends to be fairly obvious, even when we try to make it not be, who’s dating who!
Oh weird. The salsa I’ve been learning (and that I’ve been seeing in the social dances) is all based on 4 counts. 1-2-3, 5-6-7 (where the beat falls on 1, 3, 5, 7).
On songs where the 1 and the 5 fall during the accent (of the percussion or bass, say), I can follow pretty easily. It’s on songs where there the accent is not on 1 and 5 that I can get lost in…
Yeah this is the main problem I see at, say, a Friday night social dance, where there are a lot of dancers with not much experience. So many follows don’t provide a frame and don’t offer any pressure at all from their fingers, which makes it really hard to set up even simple things like open-position right turns or cross-body leads. I think (as someone else in the thread said) suggesting that it would help me for them to be a little more firm is a good idea.
Yeah, I think I’m over that phase now. I can do most of my repertoire without too many problems now, and it’s only when trying out new things that we’ll stumble around or get off beat. And when at a social dance, I try to limit trying new things out to once or twice a dance, unless the girl seems really good-humored about it all, in which case we often just practice a cool new move like 5-6 times in a row until we can sorta get it.
I love follows who have a good sense of humor, and really hate it when a girl really shows that she thinks you’re beneath her…
I’ve been slowly picking up cha-cha by osmosis, since cha-cha gets played every so often at the dances. It’s very easy to find the beat; in fact, every other partner dance I’ve ever dipped my toe into has been fairly easy to find the beat. It’s just salsa that eludes me sometimes!
I usually dance at ballroom-style places where they do also hold classes at other times. It’s kind of a hybrid atmosphere, I feel, because a lot of people come who don’t take classes, and there’s even alcohol served.
But anyway, I love that way of putting the advice. I think I’ll try paraphrasing that next time I lead a girl who offers jello arms.
In the three or four years that my husband and I took dance lessons, I was completely broken of my backleading/anticipating ways - if you don’t lead me, I won’t go anywhere. My frame is always kept firm and my centre of gravity kept in the middle so I’m ready to go any direction my lead takes me. I should ask my husband how he leads someone with spaghetti arms - if you give them a regular lead, just their arm will move and they won’t actually do anything.
I find it’s a good way to practice following.
The best thing I ever did for following, though, was to take classes as a lead. It was eyeopening how hard it was getting someone to do what you want them to do when they only had 3 choices (it was a beginner class). I think that trying that gave me a lot of insight into how to be a better follow.
Leading is not as much fun as following.
KarlGrenze explained it well, but I’ll add that one of the harder things at the beginning for a lead is to make your leading motions decisive and unambiguous. A lot of beginning leads are very timid with the amount of pressure they apply, but I’ve found that more often than not, follows appreciate a good hearty push or pull for cross body leads, open breaks, etc. This applies doubly for multi-spin axle turns, in which you need to keep a good sustained pressure while helping the follow keep her balance.
Also, as a lead, you have to make sure that what you’re trying is not too hard or potentially painful for the follow. Being spun around for a 1080 degree turn when you don’t have the mechanics for it could be disastrous. Doubleplus bad if you’re not even executing the lead’s part properly, either!
As a random aside, I think it’s interesting how follows in salsa get virtually no say in what moves are performed, unless the lead disengages for a solo break or something. Sure, ladies get to do all sorts of cool styling, but everything I’ve been taught so far has led me to believe that it’s not kosher for them to try backleading or get in a sort of wrestling match with the lead. Not very feminist of salsa, innit?
That’s a really good idea. Any recommendations for albums?
Wow, I’m curious. Do you actually decline requests to dance? What do you usually say, and how do they take it?
I ask because I’ve never been declined a dance, unless the follow was (legitimately) sitting out the dance to rest, was practicing moves in front of the mirror, or was in the process of leaving or arriving. And this applies to even my first time out social dancing, when I completely stunk up the place. I’ve never had the experience of being declined, and then seeing her immediately dance with someone else.
Bless you darling man…bless you!!! In my book, any man who has mastered at least a few good lead cues and dance moves and can keep the count most of the time is welcome as there are FAR too few men in this day and age who don’t have the whole “dancing is teh gay” attitude about it.
Hmmmm…I’ve not had a whole lot of salsa, cha-cha, swing, and nightclub 2step, are my faves, but from the times I’ve done it, it seemed as if it were a pretty simple rhythm, sort of like a cha-cha without the triplet count, and slightly more involved than the Merengue if I remember? Yeah, it seemed as if there was a lot of the “just feel it” type attitude to this dance. You’ll pick it up in no time.
Hmmmmm, as to giving advice to a weak or unobservant follow? I don’t know, it depends upon how into it the girl is. Many eons ago was when I first started learning to couples dance. Prior to that I had only had training in ballet, jazz and gymnastics type dance, so I had not a CLUE what lead cues meant nor how to follow them. It’s possible that these girls are just used to the whole “club, bootie shaking” kind of dancing and don’t realize that there’s somewhat of a science to couples dancing?
I know I didn’t entirely know what it meant when the lead lifted his arm! This happened to me with one guy, before I started taking lesson. This poor guy I was dancing with sweetly said “boy, I just can’t get a double turn out of you can I?” My little blonde brain had the immediate light bulb moment…“OH, DERRRRR arm up means I’m supposed to keep spinning…sheesh”. After that I started paying more attention to the cues. I still didn’t really know what a lot of them meant, but just that I was paying more attention and trying to interpret them helped. And not too long after was when I started getting serious and taking lessons.
Are these girls that are in your classes, or girls at the nightclub?
Are you the type that can pull off a funny, flirty “this is MY dance frame, this is YOUR dance frame (you know, from ‘Dirty Dancing’?)” line? You might try that. I’d laugh and do a better job following if a guy did something like that. Or maybe a gentle “hey, if you tighten up your arm, I’ll bet I can turn you better, what do you think”? (make it you and her trying to figure things out together, that sort of thing).
My old dance partner/ former boyfriend was an excellent lead, but he had a terrible time picking up the first few counts of a song, so I’d always have to start if off “5, 6, 7, 8” or “quick/quick, slow slow”…
When he was being a snot I’d say something silly like “Quack QUACK, slow slow”. Getting him laughing always vastly improved our practice sessions!
Sorry, not being a guy, or a lead, that’s about all I’ve got. 
Well, I’ve been declined plenty of times, and that’s supposed to be more uncommon than the other way around. So I don’t feel bad doing something that has been done to me. And I don’t usually get asked to dance, either. There are limited numbers of good dance partners.
The ones whom I decline usually are the ones I’ve never even once seen in the dance floor. They’re on the sidelines for most of the songs. So when they ask me out, I ask them if they know how to dance. Most of them say they’re not good/don’t know. I tell them the truth, which is “I don’t lead, sorry.” Sometimes I ask them if they do know other dance (bachata and merengue are usually easier) and tell them I’d dance that with them instead. And yes, usually even if I get asked right after declining someone, I’ll tell the guy to wait until the next song.
Not being Angua, but being a fan of salsa, here are a few examples (these are mostly Puerto Rican style, which vary a bit from Colombian style):
For romantic salsas:
Marc Anthony- especially his older CDs “Todo a su tiempo” and “Contra la corriente”
Gilberto Santa Rosa- I love different songs from different CDs, and they’re usually his hits/singles, so if you get a “Best of” compilation that should have many of his good songs.
Victor Manuelle- Get a “Best of/Greatest hits” too. And he and Gilberto Santa Rosa did a live CD together which is good, IMHO. And his single live album was good too. I think they’re titled “Live at the Carnegie Hall” or “Live at the Madison”.
For a mix of old time silly, with some political commentary and some romantic songs:
Hector Lavoe- He’s dead, so again, a “Greatest Hits” should have many of his best records. He has a lot of songs, though, and most of them good, IMHO, so you shouldn’t go wrong. Look for the song “Aguanile” among the ones in the album.
Gran Combo de Puerto Rico- Definitely need a “Greatest hits” here, they’ve been playing for decades and decades.
Straight up political/social commentary:
Rubén Blades- Again, lots of albums, compilations, and live CDs. A very old one, Siembra, from the 70s, has many of his greatest hits. Another one is a double CD of Maestra Vida, but that’s definitely a concept album. The title song, though, is the best of the whole album.
Isn’t that true for most couple dancing? Someone has to lead, and someone has to follow. Two leads get you nowhere.
KarlGrenze has some good ideas for songs. Personally, I’m a big fan of Marc Anthony’s stuff, but I do random things like pick a salsa track on my Pandora and get Pandora to come up with stuff for me. In fact I have Contra La Corriente playing right now.
I think I’ve declined a dance twice. The first time was because the song was a cha-cha song, which isn’t my strong point, and once was because I’d just arrived, and was chatting with a friend.
I need to practice my turns. I have an unfortunate habit of lifting the non-pivot foot too far off the ground, which makes it difficult to get back onto one. I’m slowly being broken of the habit, but its taking practice and really wearing out my dance shoes
Sometimes you just have to let the man take over and let him tell you what to do! Its OK to just shine and look cute in salsa.
Gracias!
True, and I certainly ain’t complainin’. I’m just a bit surprised that no one has tried to popularize a version of these partner dances that regularly has the lead and follow switching roles or something. I guess the fundamentalist feminists have bigger fish to fry first.
Ah, I hadn’t noticed that you were primarily a club dancer. I haven’t really ventured out into the club world, but in the ballroom/studio world, I’ve seen relatively few overt come-ons during the dance. Most everyone there just seems to really enjoy the dancing. Sure, guys will be more likely to talk to and chat up a hot girl after a dance, but it doesn’t seem any more prevalent than what would happen at any other social gathering.
How aggressive are they at your clubs?
Well, it’s nice that you can filter out the true beginners while still being nice about it. However, it’s quite possible to be “not good” and still know how to lead some basic moves. Though I guess if they describe themselves as such, they probably never press the issue! I know I certainly wouldn’t’ have. But now I just don’t care and will ask anyone for a go, since I tend to learn the most with good follows, anyway (if something goes wrong, I KNOW it’s my fault, instead of it potentially being either one of us). I’ve lost my dancing shame, and I’m much much happier for it.