Usually they are not that aggressive, and will not press if you turn them down. But, letting them dance with you increases their persistence. Turn them down early, they’ll go away. Let them dance, they may keep shooting for more. But even then, they’ll go find someone else. It’s not as if there is a shortage of pretty females at a club, while the opposite is true.
What I found amusing was when they were hitting on me, next to my (now ex-) partner. He and I would dance with each other and others throughout the night, but after the night ended would end up together.
“Would you like private lessons? Do you know I give them?” “Really? Are you as good as (my partner’s name)?”
As to the last question. Well, it’s not as if the beginners at the places I go have a deep unwavering desire to learn. They’re more interested in learning a phone number than a few new moves. OTOH, the ones who are on the dance floor the most usually do want to dance (getting something else would be a bonus). I have served as lead/follow teacher to a few friends, but since I don’t teach lead, I cannot guide them for more than “This is basic footwork”. I have friends who are better dancers and can do more with them.
I think leads may change in the rueda style, but still remains with the guys. And like I said, if in a specific couple the female leads better, they may dance it that way. Good thing because I don’t think dad would endure being the lead any more than my mom would like being lead by clumsy left feet.
Speaking of gender politics, I’d love to see a drag king do a salsa dance number, all Latin lover style. In fact, that’s what I was hoping to see last time I went to a combined drag queen/king show.
Instead, I was tortured by drag kings imitating angsty male teenagers. So drag queens get to be confident sexual femme fatales, and drag kings are… what not even male teenagers want to be?
Yeah, in rueda style, the leads do rotate around your circle, but its always the guy who leads. Its just the guy who’s leading you changes, either by “handing you over” to the next guy (eg in the “damé” style moves) or by doing a “switch n ditch”, where he switches places with you and moves on to the next girl (enchuffa doble, adios, etc). But its always the guy who leads, and the guy who initiates the changeover.
Yeah, I sympathize completely with you follows and all the axle turning you end up doing. We’ve been working on that as leads in class and it’s pretty brutal. Even just a single 360 left pencil turn is giving me no end of trouble. I’ve tried all the tricks they suggest, including spotting, leading with the shoulder, keeping my axis as straight as possible, holding the raised foot near the pivot foot pointing straight down… It still usually ends with a stumble and a dazed head. I guess it’s just practice practice practice, right?
Hehe, thanks, but I really don’t think it’s all that odd. Whenever I go out salsa dancing, I usually see more guys out there than gals. You’re right that some guys won’t do it out of timidity or machismo, but there seem to be more than enough hombres to go around, at least in my neck of the woods. It’s kind of annoying, actually, because in order to get a dance, you often have to assault the girls right as the song ends; otherwise they’ll get snatched up. Especially the good ones. DOUBLE ESPECIALLY the good pretty ones!
Hell, I went out dancing once with an attractive female friend who is not terribly into salsa, but had a lot of ballet training, and is thus still extremely impressive on the dance floor. I got to dance with her exactly twice; once at the beginning and once right before we left. She literally had a guy asking her within 3 seconds of a song ending. She was too nice to ever refuse, so she would have to drink her water, adjust her shoes and blouse, etc. while there was a guy waiting for her, the entire night. The only time we really got to hang out and talk was when we were waiting for the bathrooms outside!
The thing is, I can count it perfectly fine if I’m not dancing, but when I am, I’ll sometimes brick a move, get off the beat, and then be at a loss as to where the one is. Some salsa songs have pretty obvious beats that make it easy to get back into it, but some… do not. At least to me. I guess the thing is to just listen to more salsa music, as others have suggested.
Nice, though I’m not sure if I AM the type! I actually have a really hard time dancing and making semi-intelligent conversation at the same time. It’s like two separate parts of my brain that don’t want to be active at the same time. I honestly feel like a retard sometimes when my follow tries to have a nice chat while we’re going at it. I either just smile and nod, mumble an occasional affirmative, and keep dancing. Or I’ll try and talk to her and have to resort to doing basics over and over again.
Yep, practice, practice, practice. And in my case, letting the non-pivot foot skim the ground rather than just lift it up. Helps me get back on one on time, and for my lead to mark one properly after a turn too.
Rueda is a lot of fun – I love it to bits. We tend to do it more as an exhibition piece with leads and follows who’ve practiced together as a circle, with our own specific set of styling for both leads and follows, but we do get chance sometimes to do it on the dancefloor too. I doubt that you’d be able to simply step into a rueda circle without knowing the specific set of calls, moves and stylings for that circle. There are some standard calls, but each circle is essentially unique with its own twists on calls, stylings, moves, etc. If you’re interested, your best bet would probably be to find someone already in a rueda circle, ask to join and learn their calls and stylings. The circle I ended up in is co-ordinated by a close friend who also happened to be the guy who first taught me how to salsa. Even though I was a relatively new dancer (had only been dancing 3.5 months at that point), because I knew someone, I was able to join. It is a lot of fun, both to dance and to watch, but its beauty relies on its synchrony, timing, and the skill in which all the dancers dance together.
Back in the day, we used to have good-natured disagreements over who had the tougher job- the leaders or followers. (We had all been dancing ballroom/Latin less than 3 years at the time. This was at least 15 years ago.) Since then, I’ve taught middle-schoolers the basics of salsa and swing. It is VERY hard (for me, anyway) to reverse my thinking and take the leader role. I was a natural follower, it required a lot of practice to become a semi-competent leader. Either role is hard; it can be made harder if the role is forced on you by gender when your natural proclivity is the opposite.
OP, right now leads consist of thinking about a turn, sticking your hand up and when she’s ready she turns. Eventually, the timing becomes more precise and the use of basic moves/turns becomes automatic. You’ll only have to concentrate on the newer moves. It’s too soon to try this, but when you are feeling more comfortable with dancing you should try following or take some private lessons with a partner. You’d be surprised how your leading skills will improve by learning how the woman follows the lead. And followers will improve by learning how leaders lead.
I definitely agree! I’ve actually done a little following. It’s happened when I bring a non-salsa friend out dancing to a ballroom social, and they have like a 30-60 min beginners’ lesson (aimed at 1st-time salsa-goers) before the dance. Sometimes we don’t have enough follows and I volunteer to be one, because I’m enrolled in an actual course and don’t need the lesson.
I’m really glad the couple of times I did it, because it really showed me the type of things that I wanted from my lead. Having a signal BEFORE the one or the five helped me so much to prepare to be spun or moved around. And it was nice to feel how much pressure was comfortable; the beginning leads were all way too gentle. And with me being a guy, they were probably even more gentle with the ladies!
It definitely gave me a lot to think about, especially about finding a way to pre-signal or prepare moves to make it easier for the follow. It’s doubly important for combos. A simple example: a move requires me to raise my follow’s and my arm on one, to turn and go underneath and kind of pull her along (whatever, it’s hard to explain). Something that made it so much more fluid and easy was to simply finish the previous move with the arms already up and keep them up as I went into the move in question. It’s my default reaction at the end of a move to go back in basic mode, but now I try to consciously think about what’s best to prepare for the next combo. And it helps the follow prepare too, because when you keep the arms raised, she knows something’s up and can thus know not to do a time-consuming flourish or something (which has happened to me).
It’s so fun to have these little revelations and be able to put them into practice immediately. And there’s something immensely gratifying about leading a move in a way that makes it easy for the follow while also making her look really good. Some really beautiful smiles can be had.
I guess there are worse places to pick people up at. I think you should take them up on their free private “lesson”, but bring your dance partner along. Might be worth a laugh…
Had another rueda practice session today, with a few newbies along for the ride too. It actually worked really well as we now have a 12-person (6 couple) circle and are seriously considering “showing off” the next time we’re all out (we dance mainly at studio social nights, such things are acceptable there!). Although I really need to get the “newbie” lead to stop trying to wrench my arm out of its socket during guapeja. I’m not entirely sure what he’s doing, but there’s very little tension from him and he seems to bring my arm down and around in a really exaggerated way during the “open” part of guapeja. Its really annoying!
If you can tell when he’s about to do it, my suggestion would be to keep your arm as tight as you can and not let him lead you that way - a lead should never hurt the person being led. And tell him - “My arm doesn’t bend that way” or something, to make sure he gets it. This is where a little backleading is okay.
Yeah, I can tell when he’s about to do it – on every single open break step, which in rueda is everything that’s not a move! I’ve actually been trying keeping my arm very stiff and he’s not getting the hint. Of course, he’s also not got the hang of offering a little tension when coming in for the closed part of guapeja which is getting on my last nerve right now.
Just tell him. With words. As a lead, I never want to make my follow uncomfortable or cause her pain, and I’d appreciate a single direct critique/request as opposed to building a festering resentment!
edit: It also sounds like I should probably get a lot better before I actually try to get into a rueda circle…
I think I try to be. But I’m still at the stage where I flub up a lot of my leads (especially moves new to me) and end up confusing my follow, and we end up doing a half-assed ugly-looking move and reset to the next count. Or I’m too slow in signaling a move, and she rushes to do it, making it less pretty. The majority of girls are pretty good-natured about it, but I can tell some are annoyed, and they actively avoid me for the rest of the night. But no worries, eating humble pie is becoming second nature to me…
Being a good lead will certainly help in a rueda circle. But so long as you’re that, you’ll be fine. Its very choreographed in some ways, which helps. This guy’s just a lousy lead.
Some of the worst leads in the dance classes we took had the incredibly bad grace to blame the woman for it, too - uh uh, buddy. If we’re not going where you want us to go, it’s all you. This wasn’t new dancers, either, but club hotshots. I’d been salsa dancing for three or four years at that point - it wasn’t me not following properly. Leading properly is a skill to be learned, too - you don’t just fling your arm out and expect the woman to know what you want.
ETA: That’s another reason why backleading is so bad - we had any number of couples where the guy thought he was doing fine because his wife was anticipating everything, then when he got a new partner, his lead was terrible.
