In RyJae’s own thread, there were only suggestions on how to make do, just like in lissener’s thread. Only when Rick started a thread specifically asking for money did people start sending it.
Setting aside my thoughts on lissener for the moment (and you’ll all note I’ve stayed out of this thread despite being the target of his arrogance; and even I’m getting sick of the Verhoeven jabs) I’m intrigued by your claim here. You appear to be saying that lissener is “Better in a lot of ways than many of you” because there are some things he’s good at, such as aquariums, gardening, and knitting, with the caveat that he’s failed to turn it into a successful career.
I’m intrigued by this statement because it strikes me as being so irrelevant that at first I honestly thought you were joking and taking a tonguje-in-cheek shot at lissener. I’d ask “so fucking what” but really, “So fucking what” needs to be broken up into a three part question:
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So who cares? lt’s not the subject of this thread. The subject is “this poster is a jerk.” It’s not “this poster has no skills whatsoever.”
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In what way does possessing skills make someone better than someone else at a fundamental level? I assure you I have forgotten more about baseball than lissener will ever know; I don’t think that makes me better than him. I am a magnificent, reknowned public speaker, which does not make me any better than someone who isn’t. My wife is a remarkable businesswoman; is she a better person than lissener because he’s not?
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And as to those two points, what strikes you as being remarkable about someone having talents? Why does that in any way excuse them from legitimate criticism? I can’t offhand think of anyone I know well who DOESN’T have some talents at which they’re better than most people.
Are you calling me a liar?
Perhaps he could knit sweaters for fish out of home-grown flax.
Regards,
Shodan
Yippee I’m finally part of a clique! It only took 40 years.
Not to mention that RyJae was apparently the victim of fraud and lissener isn’t.
Yeah, but it’s that clique of losers who can’t knit.
To Equipoise: I believe the sentiment behind your defense of lissener and castigation of some of us is admirable, but I don’t agree with most of what you said. First, there is the fact that all most of us know of your friend is what he posts here. From that, some of us have concluded that he is an unpleasant asshole. Nothing he does in his real life has any bearing on that. Second, have you considered the possibility that the very things that some of us object to about his posts may be what prevents him from using his artistic skills to make a decent living? Most people who hire someone to design or cook or create don’t enjoy being told that their tastes are execrable. Third, you seem to believe that having a few skills somehow erases or excuses unpleasant behavior. I guess that for some, that is true. Not for me. A genius who is also an asshole is still an asshole, for me.
You are right, I can’t knit. However, I can pay my electric bill. It’s a push.
This is not correct. People offered lissener money, a hot shower and other things, but he said he wanted to tough it out. Please don’t mischaracterize a thread that we can all read.
If by “attitude that some people don’t like” you are referring to his willingness to call someone a liar because they disagree with his opinion, then yeah, I guess you’re right.
I’m reminded of that Jack Handy Deep Thoughts line: If you define cowardice as running away at the first sign of danger, screaming and tripping and begging for mercy, then yes, Mister Brave Man, I guess I am a coward.
Or maybe YOU’RE LYING!
Here’s one:
I can knit. I’ll teach you.
You’ll have to teach Loach, too.
OK, since no discussion of lissener is possible without a discussion of Showgirls, I guess it’s my job to explain things.
Showgirls is a bad movie. Really bad. But it is clear that the movie is intentionally bad. Verhoevan made that movie as a giant middle finger to the kind of audience that would go to see a movie like Showgirls. He made a movie about naked tits that was impossible to enjoy just for the naked tits. The sex and naked tits are deliberately unerotic. It is impossible for us to care about Nomi’s career from lap dancer to headliner, because we hate her. Verhoevan intends for us to hate her. He hates her, and he hates us.
That said, I believe Showgirls fails as a satire because it refuses to deliver on the surface level. You can’t really get under the audience’s skin unless the audience buys the premise. You can’t effectively scold the audience for wanting to see naked tits unless they are actually enjoying the naked tits before realizing that they shouldn’t be enjoying the naked tits. The audience never gets its comeuppance because the audience doesn’t buy the premise of the film.
So unless you appreciate Showgirls on a meta-meta level, and other sorts of experiments in playing with audience, there’s no reason to actually see the movie. It might be an interesting movie to see, but probably not an enjoyable one.
Now, constrast that to Starship Troopers…where people really did buy the premise of the film, people really did at first watch as a standard bugs vs heroes action movie. But the movie also was telling the audience, “You like this crap? You’re an asshole if you like this crap.” But I believe that Verhoevan himself enjoys movies of this sort, and so was unable to allow himself to make a totally repulsive action movie. He was able to get the audience to buy into the movie because he bought into the movie himself, even while knowing it was crap.
But Showgirls just oozes hatred out of every pore. Hatred for the audience, hatred for the actors, hatred for the story, hatred for humanity, hatred for women, hatred for sex, hatred for the titty movie genre, hatred for the success story genre. And of course, audiences could see that the movie was crap, could see that it was unerotic, but they often didn’t understand why. They just knew they’d been tricked into paying for a movie they didn’t like. They didn’t understand that they weren’t supposed to like the movie, they were supposed to hate it. Why big studios gave Verhoevan money to make movies that the audience was supposed to hate is another question. Answered by the fact that he hasn’t made a Hollywood movie since *Hollow Man * in 2000.
So knowing all this beforehand, you might or might not want to watch Showgirls, and you might or might not find it interesting on one level or another. Just don’t expect an inept cheezy sex romp.
If true, that’s just about the most unappealing, stupid, pointless reason to make a movie I’ve ever heard.
Oh, and lissener is a poopy-head.
Lemur866, thanks for the analysis of Showgirls. I’m a bit of an ignoramus when it comes to anything beyond watching a movie and mindlessly enjoying it or not enjoying it. Your explanation helps me to understand a bit more about what is being argued about.
There’s no argument,
I’m right.
Everyone else is wrong.
I’ve heard that analysis more than once, about Showgirls and about Starship Troopers. I think it’s complete crap. If you purposely make a crappy movie with crappy actors and crappy writing you get…a crappy movie. Surprise surprise. Doesn’t matter if you did it on purpose or not. It’s still a crappy movie.
And you know what? I don’t care if someone has a different point of view. I will even enjoy reading that point of view if they can express it well. Just don’t call me an idiot for not seeing your point of view. Or telling my that I must not have seen it. Or that I must not have been paying attention because if I was there is no way I could come to that conclusion. If you had studied film the way I have you could never come to that … Oh never mind.
Which is why I agree that Showgirls is a crappy movie. If you deliberately make a movie that is impossible to enjoy, you’ve made a crappy movie.
So you can enjoy, say, a crappy Roger Corman naked titty movie quite easily. Roger Corman liked naked titties, he liked making movies about naked titties, he knew his audience liked watching movies about naked titties. So even if the movie wasn’t very good, at least you got to enjoy watching naked titties.
Showgirls isn’t just a crappy movie about naked titties, it’s a crappy movie about naked titties that you can’t even enjoy on the naked titty level, and it’s that way ON PURPOSE. That’s all kinds of fucked up.
It all makes sense now. Verhoevan is an asshole who makes intentionally bad movies and lissener is an asshole who appreciates a good asshole.