Tell that to the guy who was banned from a local mall after some girls claimed he was bothering them.
I’d been only vaguely aware of his “Showgirls” fixation, but this is the post that made me sit up and notice Lissener and decide that he wasn’t posting from a position firmly rooted in reality. I consider * myself * a liberal, but couldn’t imagine anyone posting this with a straight face. I think anyone who is willing to be so polarized on issues is eventually going to find themselves so frustrated that they’re going to be continually flirting with banishment.
They’ll let you back in the mall, just stop wearing that trenchcoat…
Yes, right. Deal with it like an adult. Recognize what forum you’re posting in, treat people with respect unless they’ve genuinely shown you a lack of respect, and realize when it’s time to back down from an issue that’s not all that important. Those are the basics that people have to master.
One poster didn’t, he broke the rules, and got banned. The board is not happy-fun-time land; it’s a moderated forum where you play by the rules and treat people with respect instead of being so goddamn dismissive of everyone who doesn’t agree with you all the time. I’ve gotten the smackdown a few times, and I’ve tried to concede that, admit it if/when I was wrong, and make up for it. Even if someone is absolutely, positively 100% convinced that he is right, that doesn’t give him the excuse to be condescending, belligerent, petty, and jerkish.
Or to protestors trying to get anywhere near George Bush.
I know you aren’t talking about me, here (right?) but I’m going to respond anyway.
There’s a difference between “a person you disagree with” and “a person who acts like an asshole at every opportunity.” There’re a lot of posters on the board I disagree with whom I would be sorry to see banned, because the whole point of the SDMB is arguing about our contrasting opinions and world views. That’s what makes posting here fun. Unfortunetly, there are some posters who simply aren’t fun to argue with, and who have a knack for turning any thread in which they participate into something that’s all about them. For a lot of other posters, including myself, at times, lissener was that sort of poster. I gather he wasn’t like this in person, but on the boards, he was simply unpleasant to be around, and I don’t blame people for being glad he’s gone. Actually, I’m surprised at how many people are sad (if unsurprised) to see him gone. I thought he was much more disliked than this.
Sure, which is why I think it’s bad form to agitate for the banning of another poster. But if a guy you don’t like goes and gets himself banned, why not be happy? A person whose prescence you don’t like is no longer present.
Imagine if you have a co-worked you really hate. Everything the guy does is annoying, and to top it off, he sucks at his job. And then, entirely through his own actions, he goes and gets himself fired, and you never have to see or speak to him again. Wouldn’t you be happy about that? Just a little? Aren’t there one or two co-workers with whom you’d get together to share a few “Thank God Bob’s gone,” sentiments?
Which is why the SDMB is better than real life. 
Again, it’s not about the opinion, it’s about the personality. A lot of people don’t agree with lissener and Cervaise about Paul Verhoeven. I don’t think you’ll find very many people hoping to see Cervaise banned, though.
We don’t encourage speculation about the reason for a banning, because y’all wind up looking at one post, or two posts, and drawing great conclusions therefrom. This is not a court of law, where each offense stands on its own, and where you can’t bring up evidence of prior offenses.
Today’s offenses were merely the last straws that overflowed the camel’s cup. Generally, when a long-time poster is finally banned, it’s because we have a long list, including multiple warnings over some fairly short period of time, and repeated ill-behaviors. This situation is not an exception to that general rule.
Oh, come on. We do that here all the time.
Oh, you mean physically incapable!
Heh.
Verhoven’s merits as a director will be debated in film geek circles for years to come. The pro-Verhoven faction has a well thought-out position which anti-Verhoeven folks like myself think sounds like an elaborate after-the-fact rationalization. It’s a perfectly legitimate disagreement, but it’s not worth getting so worked up about that you end up getting tossed from the SDMB. Hell, I will passionately defend the Cohens against such naysayers as The Gaspode, but I’m not going to blow a gasket and get myself banned.
Well, at least I hope I won’t…
Skip a few responses to the website, not Gamaliel.
Who was agitating there? Who pulled the pretension and snobbery card? Who accused the other party as viewing people who disliked Verhoeven as mindless sheep? Until the snobbery-elitism-pretension cards were pulled, everything was fairly friendly, as it almost always is in threads about Verhoeven. Such accusations are personal attacks and accusations of dishonesty against the poster, not against the film.
I recognize that.
I appreciate that, but you don’t have to argue and you do have an ignore list.
Yeah, but it’s still really bad form. If you can’t say nuthin’ nice… Liberal summed it up best.
If we banned every agitator, this place would be boring. lissener just went a little too over the top, for reasons that are understandable. Accusations of elitism and snobbery are pure ad hominems, and if you search, I think you’ll find that rarely did arguments about Verhoeven become heated and acrimonious prior to someone playing the elitism/pretension/snobbery card. I’m not defending his behavior in CS, just pointing out the causes.
Too bad.
It’s always sad when a long-term poster gets banned. While post-count isn’t an indicator of quality, with few exceptions people who have nothing to contribute don’t make it to several thousand posts, because this forum tends to beat the shit out of people like that until they hang it up.
lissener, in particular, was a guy who had things to contribute, although he certainly was a dick more often than he had to be. Sayonara.
–Cliffy
lissener was able to offer up some wonderful insights; some fantastic points of view that I applauded. But other times he was, shall we say, more “difficult” to deal with.
I am sorry that it came to this, but others here have explained why it happened. All I would like to say to lissener, if he is reading this thread, is that I could tell he was a good guy, (and very insightful guy).
Looking at your quotes, (I haven’t read the whole thread yet) I’d have to say it was lissener. “At least you have the safety of the pack” is, at the very least, mildly insulting. Gamaliel is as guilty of escalating it as lissener, but lissener fired the first shot. Note how many times lissener uses the words “you” and “your” in his first two posts, compared to Gamaliel. As always, lissener is talking about the other poster, and not about the film. He’s the one who initally turned the conversation towards the personal. IMO, YMMV, ASAP, BYOB.
I’ve been against the implementation of the ignore list from day one. But that’s a different issue altogether. As for not getting into the argument at all, I agree. But, let’s say that I really hated lissener (I didn’t) and I really wanted to discuss Paul Verhoeven (I can live without doing that). Until now, it would have been impossible to discuss Verhoeven without lissener getting involved in the thread. If I were to follow you advice, I’d just have to not ever talk about Paul Verhoeven. But now that lissener is gone, I can talk about him without having to deal with a poster I intensely dislike. Which, I think, would be sufficient cause for a little smirking, at the very least.
Then don’t post in the Pit.
I’d like a cite for that. I got into a lot of fights with lissener in CS and in the Pit, and it was invariably because he couldn’t handle any sort of disagreement without resorting to personal insults. Every trainwreck I can remember him being involved in, he was the man at the switch when it went off the rails.
Well, despite my fabulous wealth and lack of a day job, I don’t feel like searching through every thread with the mention of lissener and Verhoeven in them trying to find an exception. Let it suffice to say that a lot of the time, mild hijacks were escalated by someone else letting loose with elitist/pretentious/snob.
Well, I think the presence of opposing viewpoints makes for better discussions. If it really bothers you, you could ignore the other party without using the “Ignore” list, simply disregarding them.
I don’t really care to argue about it anymore.
I was the poster in the now infamous “Most Overrated Director” who first mentioned Paul Verhoeven. Who knew it would lead to the untimely demise of Lissener? And that Lissener’s Last Stand would take place in Cafe Society of all places?
Oh well. FWIW, I stand by my words. Verhoeven sucks. Others disagree. BFD.
I understand people getting passionate about their politics, their sexual orientation and their religion. But movies? Why? Life is too short to get your panties in a wad over something so trite.
And while we were polar opposites in practically every way, I won’t do a happy dance on Lissener’s grave. It’s just not nice.
But sometimes we need a Speaker for the Banned.
Speakers for the Banned are the meandering representatives of a message board movement, researching and giving a speech following the banning of an individual that attempts to speak for them, describing the ultimate truths of their boardlife as they might have seen it.
(Apologies to O S Card)
Glad to see you’ve been paying attention to what I’ve written here, because that, of course, if exactly what I’ve been saying all along.
Master lissener has taught you well, young padawan.
Did you bother to read what Dex was kind enough to post? This dust up in CS was, in the opinion of the Admins, the final straw. He had been warned several times and didn’t heed the warnings. If you’re on thin ice, you have to tread very carefully.
If the past is any indication, he will be able to sincerely apologize and then will be allowed back. How long he gets to stay after that is his own choice.
Haj
Seems** lissener** never paid any attention to the answers he got in the “Why do you think I’m an asshole?” thread. Pity, that. There was some good advice there.
I’ll miss his passion, if not his message.