Living in an ethnically diverse neighborhood

In My Humble Opinion
21

I am definitely a “close the door” type of person. I really don’t want to get to know my neighbors, and it thoroughly icks me out that they would know too much about me.

Now I don’t do anything odd…but I am and always have been unusual wherever I live. (I’ve never lived in a predominantly Indian neighborhood.) So I sympathize with the OP.

I explain all this to say you can be the one who keeps to themselves even in an overly friendly neighborhood. People will wonder about you, but as long as you are unfailingly polite, you can get by. But you will get subtle little hints that you are an outsider - like if you park somewhere that is a bit inconvenient to others, and if someone else parks somewhere, you may get a note on your car and the other one never will. They get more leeway.

I have had this happen plenty to me in the neighborhoods I live in. That’s life, and the cost I pay. But other than that, people are pretty nice to me.

On the other hand, I do like to have ethnicities around me. I don’t like being the only different person, if only because I like the shops, the restaurants, and other stuff out of the ordinary.

22

[QUOTE=sugar and spice]
Definitely check out the block itself if you haven’t already-- head down there on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon for a walk around. Keep in mind, you’re not trying to figure out if you can live in any arbitrary Mexican neighborhood, you’re just trying to figure out if you can live in this neighborhood, regardless of ethnicity.
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Yeah - we figure in this market, the house is unlikely to move too quickly. Moreover, it is unusual enough that it is not going to appeal to a huge percentage of people - tho it is exactly what we love most. So we figure on driving to the neighborhood in the evenings over the next few weekends. Park the car, walk around, maybe have dinner, walk around some more.

Small example: last night when we were looking at the house, the family next door was having fun in the back yard. Maybe 6-8 people, adults, teens, kids. Now intellectually, I can say “This is GREAT. The family being together, having good clean fun.” But when the one guy broke into singing rather loudly in Spanish, I thought, “You know, I don’t walk around my yard singing the Beer Barrel Polka all the time.”

In my old neighborhood, large hispanic family groups used to meet in the parks, having large cookouts and soccer games long into the evenings. Intellectually, I would say “Whitey should be more like this, valuing family.” But as one of a very few gringos, I have to admit feeling a little less than warm and fuzzy.

Not in any way saying Mexican-American (for you RNATB) culture is in any way worse than what I am used to - heck, in many ways it is better. Just really trying to figure out how I would respond in a community where it was more prevalent.

Like I said - it may turn out that deep down I really am prejudiced. If I decide that I am, then I have to decide if I can or want to move to a situation that will bring out and force me to deal with my least desireable traits.

Also, no matter how quiet my immediate neighborhood might be, I need to do the footwork and go into the supermercado and the taverna, and see how well I am welcomed and served as a customer/community member, instead of as a gringo. I readily admit that I expect I would be more welcomed as a gringo in a hispanic neighborhood, than a hispanic would be welcomed in my lily-white neighborhood. Well, unless they were cutting a lawn or something… :stuck_out_tongue:

23

My own personal experience:

When I lived in Tulsa, we lived on the outskirts of the city, smack dab in the middle of a largely Latino (Mexican) neighborhood (On Birmingham Place, north of the highway, for those familiar with the area). Noisy? Yep. Lots of music, visiting families, etc. Friendly? Absolutely. I never drove down that street without someone waving to me. (And, no we didn’t socialize.) I didn’t understand a lick of Spanish and I suspect the majority of my neighbors didn’t understand too much English, but that didn’t prevent our kids from hanging out in the yards and when I moved, several of the young men showed up (unexpectedly) to help cart boxes to the back of the rental truck. My kids frequently left toys, etc. outside and nothing was ever missing. Our detached garage never locked, and stuff never disappeared. The smells from the neighbors cooking…oh, how I miss those wonderful, salavating enducing smells (and the close distance to ethnic food). Very diverse school system, not a wonderful quality education, but not bad either. Absolutely on the lower socioeconomic scale overall.

Fast forward to Harrisburg, inner city, largely African American where we spent 10 years. High crime, lots of stuff stolen and the Hall kids were largely unable to socialize with the other kids in the neighborhood (threatening behavior, lying, illegal activities, etc.). The school system is horrible in nearly every way possible. Drug deals in the alley behind the house (didn’t realize they were smoking crack until I saw it on A&E), tons of domestic violence, and a shooting across the street (dead body that fell onto the porch. We saw the blood drain down the steps.) and a few blocks over. Lots of poverty, and those who are “ethnic” (Latino, Indian, Asian, etc.) keep to small cliques around the area and although I haven’t heard too much about it, defend their territory.

Three months ago, we moved to Suburbia and it’s like living on Wysteria Lane surrounded by the Brady Bunch. It’s a very quiet area, but Hallboy can ride his bike without fear of being accousted by a kid with a gun to take it. He can play with the neighborhood kids without seriously worry that they’ll walk out with his Gameboy in their pocket (actually happened in Harrisburg). I can sit on the front porch and read the paper without worry that I’ll get shot in the cross fire, or that someone will bust the window of my car to try to hotwire it (happened to a neighbor in Harrisburg). It is most absolutely white-bread America. People still walk their dogs (haven’t seen a pit bull since I moved here), but they wave as they walk by, instead of avoiding eye contact.

Diversity? I’ll cross the (Susquehanna) river if I want to partake, but I don’t regret moving out of it. If I could live in an area with diversity, but without the high crime, I’d do it in a heartbeat, but I don’t see that happening around here.

24

Ugh I should update before posting…

In my experience, Mexican neighborhoods do tend to be a lot more community oriented than corresponding white neighborhoods. Which means you are probably going to have a lot more contact with your neighbors than in a corresponding non-Mexican neighborhood. Personally I like this experience- summer days were meant for roller skating kids and lovers holding hands and grandmas walking to the store, not the eerie empty streets of some neighborhoods. But if you are a peace and quiet kind of guy, you might translate this as “loud and nosy”.

I see that you are a “close your door after work” kind of neighbor. Are you willing to put yourself out there a bit so that people view you as an “insider” rather than an “outsider”? There is one advantage to living in a place where you don’t speak the language- the social relationships you do have often reach no further than the few words you share. Which means you can have friendships with the people around you without them asking to borrow your car or telling you about their hernia surgery. You’d be surprised how deep a friendship can grow on nothing but a few smiles.

25

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Not in any way saying Mexican-American (for you RNATB) culture is in any way worse than what I am used to - heck, in many ways it is better. Just really trying to figure out how I would respond in a community where it was more prevalent.
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All I could advise (for what my advice is worth) is that you don’t think in terms of needing to “respond” (even if you plan to respond in a “good” way). Just go there and be - which is what the Mexicans seem to be doing. It’ll work out. And you don’t have to like everything. The Mexicans next door might think it’s strange that you’re so private, so it goes both ways. I’d wager they’d be cool with it though.

26

I think you’ve pretty much answered your own question.

Walk down your prospective street. Do it again in the evening. Do you feel safe? Did you get accosted?

27

[QUOTE=even sven]
I see that you are a “close your door after work” kind of neighbor. Are you willing to put yourself out there a bit so that people view you as an “insider” rather than an “outsider”?
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Kinda a hybrid. Not terribly social, tho I spend as much time as possible outside. Gardening, walking the dog, riding my bike, reading out front, or snoozing in the hammock. But I’m totally happy to have my neighbors just smile and wave. A bonus if you can loan/borrow a cup of sugar, or keep an eye on each other’s house during vacations. But I’ve had enough bad experiences with neighbor-friendships gone bad, that I’ve developed a preference to keep neighbors at somewhat of a distance. Good fences make good neighbors/I won’t bother you, dont bother me/ mutual pleasantries and maintain our properties.

[QUOTE=loaded dog]
All I could advise (for what my advice is worth) is that you don’t think in terms of needing to “respond” (even if you plan to respond in a “good” way). Just go there and be …
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Great advice. Thanks! The kind of nugget that will really help me turn this over in my mind. Tho of course, some of the “response” might well be internal. When I hear a party I may not call the cops or ask them to quiet down (or perhaps I might). But it might piss me off (either a little or a lot), or cause me to run the AC more instead of enjoying the windows open.

Hell, for all I know, the white kids on the other side might have a rock band!

28

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
was that it is in a community where nearly 50% of the population is a different ethnicity than ours.
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Not even 50%? That’s nothing, in our neighborhood we’re just about the ONLY ones of our ethnicity. (For a fair assessment, I would guess the local area is about 60% hispanic, 20% black, 10-15% mixed other such as armenian and about 5-10% caucasian)

29

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
Not even 50%? That’s nothing, in our neighborhood we’re just about the ONLY ones of our ethnicity. (For a fair assessment, I would guess the local area is about 60% hispanic, 20% black, 10-15% mixed other such as armenian and about 5-10% caucasian)
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I’ve worked, for nearly 20 years, in an environment where I’m in an ethnic minority. My immediate workmates number twelve, and of that twelve, eight (including the boss) are Vietnamese, one is Indian, one is Uruguayan, And I’m the Token White Guy™. Frequently it’s been a good thing, occasionally it’s been a bad thing, and mostly, it’s not something that I even think about.

30

I spent a few weeks in a predominantly Mexican/Hispanic area of Chicago in 2004. I found the neighbourhood peaceful, child friendly and sort of quaint. The storefronts were all sort of 1970’s looking. Had I to move there I would learn a bit of Spanish but I found it very comfortable.

31

Hey, for that matter, Dinsdale, 3/4 of my immediate co-workers are Mexican and live in various places around the metro area. If you want the scoop on a particular area, PM me, and I’d be glad to ask around - chances are decent that at least one of my co-workers either lives nearby or knows people who do.

32

Next door lives an Indian family. Beyond them is an Oriental (Korean, I think) family. Across the road are a family from Poland. It’s not an issue for me.

33

I’m a white guy from the white suburbs who bought a house in a largely black neighborhood of Washington, DC. In general, it’s not as big a deal as you think it will be. There will be nice people and jerks, just like everywhere else. After a while you’ll probably strat appreciating the little differences and they will start to be part of what feels like home to you.

34

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
I don’t know where he lives, but according to your own link, the only non-southwestern city in which Mexicans are the major Hispanic community is Chicago.
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I’m reading nothing of the sort in that link, only that the largest Mexican populations are in the Southwest.

Furthermore, the report is dated as of 2001, which is approximately the time that Latino immigrant populations really exploded in the U.S. 7 years ago we were looking at a very different demographic landscape than we are today.

This link dated 2006 indicates that the majority of Latinos living in Detroit, Michigan are Mexican. That may be why Southwestern Detroit is dubbed ‘‘Mexico Town.’’ This is not an unusual trend anywhere you go, especially states with huge migrant farmworker populations, as there are many, many immigrants that come from Mexico and regularly travel between California and the Midwest doing seasonal farmwork.

ETA: Well I see you sort of worked this out already, but the idea that Latino populations outside the Southwest are not predominantly Mexican is kind of laughable for Metro Detroit, though I’m sure it’s perfectly sensible if you live in the East Coast/Puerto-Rican/Cuban neighborhoods – which I will soon do, incidentally.

35

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
…Great advice. Thanks! The kind of nugget that will really help me turn this over in my mind. Tho of course, some of the “response” might well be internal. When I hear a party I may not call the cops or ask them to quiet down (or perhaps I might). But it might piss me off (either a little or a lot), or cause me to run the AC more instead of enjoying the windows open.

Hell, for all I know, the white kids on the other side might have a rock band!
[/QUOTE]
Just a word of advice, you probably shouldn’t consider calling the police on you neighbors for a loud party as a first reaction. Remember, you have to live in this neighborhood and that means tolerating one another. If this is a more densely populated neighborhood than you are used to, it will be nosier to you than your old neighborhood because there are more people occupying less space. My attitude with little annoyances, 1) let it slide if you can 2) talk to the neighbor if it is a problem; 3) bring in any kind of authority as a last resort (the nuclear option). I have friends who got in a beef with their neighbors and it just became a nightmare with each side calling the police with complaints about the other every other day.

Also, try to be a little more outgoing. I’m not terribly outgoing in my neighborhood, but if I see someone carrying something, I try to offer to help out. You’d be amazed how far little things like that go. My neighborhood has a lot of kids and families (we don’t have kids) so sometimes I feel a little out of place, but not so much because I’m white. To make up for it, I make sure to give out candy on halloween, say hello to people, etc.

36

Heh.

37

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Not entirely sure - for me I think basically unease at something that is different from what I have experienced the past 47 years. Tho I cannot categorically deny there may be some element of prejudice.
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I was in exactly this position before we bought this house.

I have lived in cities my entire life. Typically, I have lived in small ethnic enclaves very close to very diverse areas. I have never lived in a place without some signage not in English, or where I would hear only English spoken.

I grew up to car stereos and sirens and at least two other languages … but all at least one street over.

This house? It’s in a weird little pocket of suburbia in a town with a strong history of immigrants. I was not quite comfortable about buying it, but it was late summer, and I was so sick of house hunting (and it was a great deal), so we bought it.

Whitest place I’ve ever lived. The non-STAHMs are all nurses and teachers, the men all care about their lawns. Everyone has tidy little lines of annuals flowers in their front yard, with an occasional outre azelea or two.

It still spooks me sometimes; I feel like I’ve moved to Stepford. Two police cars come when you report an attempted break-in (and it probably was just someone with the wrong address, but that’s another story).

I got over it. I kind of like it here. For one thing, sub-woofers are strongly discouraged.

So, maybe you can handle moving outside your comfort zone.

38

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
Not even 50%? That’s nothing, in our neighborhood we’re just about the ONLY ones of our ethnicity. (For a fair assessment, I would guess the local area is about 60% hispanic, 20% black, 10-15% mixed other such as armenian and about 5-10% caucasian)
[/QUOTE]
I was thinking the same thing - I’ve never lived in a community where more than 10% of the people were the same ethnicity as me. (If you exclude college, never more than 5%.)

50% is like - everyone. It’s almost like saying you’re afraid about the amount of estrogen in the area because about half the people are women. And you’re not. And how will you ever get along?

39

Looking at the property values, the reputation of the school district, the local crime statistics, and the general appearance of the neighborhood (nice shops with trees vs strip malls with litter, reasonably nice cars parked in the open vs shitwagons or vehicles all tucked away safely in garages) will be more helpful than looking at the particular ethnic makeup. Seeing lots of kids outside playing, and unsecured items in yards like bikes and furniture are probably good signs too.

40

I’m 3rd generation Italian, but believe me when I say that I’m very whitebread. I live south of Houston, Texas, and though I moved from Bensonhurst about 10 years ago, I don’t regret the move one bit. The only thing I find disagreeable about the Mexicans where I live(only signs in English here are the two over the local fast food joints) is that they insist on working so hard in a place as hot and humid as the crease in Satan’s ball sack.