…what the fuck?
Can anyone else please explain what just happened?
It’s not just Trump’s America*. While it is true that overtly expressed racism seems to be on the rise due at least in part to the “permission” being tacitly given by Trump’s words and actions, these same things have been going on for my entire life and before, especially for black people. Living while non-white in the US is generally a trial compared to life as a white person, as far as I can tell from my privileged perch.
*“Trump’s America” doesn’t exist, any more than Obama’s America did. Things don’t change that much in a few months or a couple of years. Your perceptions due to what’s on the news certainly changes, but don’t mistake that for the real lives of real people.
…things do change that much in a few years, even in a few months. Two years ago you had a fully staffed State Department. Two years ago you had scientists at key positions in the Department of Energy. Two years ago you weren’t separating parents and children at the borders.
Two years ago you didn’t have a President who would say something like “Lebron James was just interviewed by the dumbest man on television, Don Lemon. He made Lebron look smart, which isn’t easy to do. I like Mike!” and everyone essentially shrugs their shoulders and ignores it.
If you don’t think that “things can change that much” in a couple of years I don’t think the problem is with my perception. Things are changing rapidly. People are really loudly trying to get your attention to tell you how quickly things are changing and the response has been “you are shouting too loudly.”
I don’t think the shouty people are the problem.
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”
Some of Mr. Measure’s post was sarcastic, but its title is key, and worth a larger font:
Whites who claim not to be racist should be anti-racist. If instead the attitude is “whites should help the white team; blacks must look to the black team for help,” then naturally the minority will be persecuted.
But here, octopus uses the 3rd-person declensions exclusively. He doesn’t ask what WE should do to address racism; he condescends to offer advice to the black team about what THEY should do. Perhaps octopus should re-read **Mr. Measure’**s comment: An injustice to one diminishes us all
Is octopus himself a racist? I don’t know, but unless his was a slip-of-the-tongue, he’s not an anti-racist.
ETA:
OK. Obviously very racist.
White folks - liberal, independent, and conservative alike - both worship at the altars of individualism and objectivity. Briefly, individualism is the idea that we are unique and stand in contrast to our demographic groups; and objectivity, is the idea that we care capable of adjudicating matters free of all or most bias. Anyway, the thrust of your observation is true insofar as I am deliberately breaking the cardinal rule of individualism by generalizing.* I am generalizing* and never tried to hide or deny this fact; nor am I trying to change and hearts and minds about racism. I generalize because, in my view (and others may disagree), white people are predictable (See Matthew 7:16). On the flip-side, I am sensitive to and understand that my generalizations may be intolerable, uncomfortable, cause defensiveness or anger. The good news is that I’m only posting in this thread. You won’t see me in the neatly-trimmed suburbs of Great Debates or Elections or me engaging posters in other threads in this folder (not even the white supremacist thread using coded language to complain about people of color and minorities engaging in nonviolent protest). I’m just here.
You are here because you can’t debate worth shit, and you have no self-control.
Moving to a nice place isn’t racism, fool. It’s common sense.
You don’t see the irony in your post? You are obviously literate enough to notice it if you are being honest.
You didn’t say to move to a nice place, you said that people who don’t want to experience racism should move to somewhere where there is no racism.
Now, I’ll grant that that is actually not necessarily a racist statement, it could actually just be a really really stupid statement that just happens to agree with racist sentiments.
Objectivity is an aspiration, not an achievement. The fact that anyone aspires to objectivity (and in spite of your generalization I don’t think white folks aspire to it any more than anyone else) should be an encouragement about the future of the human race. The fact that so few achieve anything like objectivity is the sad fact of human nature. Each of us can be at least open and aware of our own shortcomings in this area.
As for individualism, individuals are unique, whether or not they stand in contrast to anything. Any generalization about a group may be true about some percentage of that group, but generalizations are not good predictors for individuals. Realizing that is, I think, what individualism means.
If the main topic of this thread is about when white people make assumptions about people of color and treat them differently only because they are a member of a different group, we can recognize that those behaviors would be reduced if more people (including and perhaps especially white people) were actually more objective and more committed to individualism. Those ideals are not part of the problem. Failure to achieve or even to understand them is a big part of the problem. Fear of the other is a big part of the problem. Fear of loss of (unearned) status is a big part of the problem. Low self-esteem is a big part of the problem. Pig-ignorance is a big part of the problem. I don’t know how to fix these things, but they seem fairly easy to identify.
Wrong again. You’re an idiot and a racist.
Just for starters: Pulling up roots and moving to an unfamiliar place is VERY difficult for most people. Did you really need me to explain this? Does your Mommy have to remind you to wipe your butt-hole after you take a shit?
But even stipulating that you were addressing a rich retired man who could move to a saner, less hate-filled country with ease, why should he have to? Why shouldn’t the scumbags like you be responsible for treating people humanely?
Your comment was either nasty and sarcastic, or stunningly stupid. In either case you’re a racist; the only remaining question is about what type of racist.
I don’t keep good tabs on the right-wingers here, unless they really catch my attention. Shodan is a sarcastic dolt. Bricker is an intelligent guy somehow unable to see the forest for the trees. HurricaneDitka can’t quite decide if he’s a troll or not. But you were always just “one of the other right-wingers” to me.
Now I know you’re a stupid racist. If I don’t put you on Ignore it’ll just be for the convenience of having ready answers to “What would a racist think about this?”
Eliminate racism here and black people won’t have to move somewhere else to live in a nice place. That’s common sense and common decency.
OK, have fun with your little race war. But if you keep driving away anyone who actually wants to help I don’t think turn out very well.
Stupid racist troll. Input of limited worth.
You dummies are so conditioned to look for ‘racism’ and ‘sexism’ everywhere you point your empty heads that you see it in the most unlikely places.
Not only are you folks mentally ill you are also intellectually dishonest. Sad.
I am beginning to come around to the idea of universal health care in the hopes that some day you all will be properly medicated.
That would be ideal wouldn’t it? However, Huey’s tactic of racism to “battle” racists is highly unlikely to contribute to the elimination of racism. It might get him a job at the NY Times though.
No, he has self-control: if he didn’t have self-control he wouldn’t be able to stop himself from pitting people in other fora. (This is the largest bright line criteria which has historically kept the bulk of jerks off this message board. OTOH, handling manipulative trolls has been trench warfare.)
I’ve only dipped into this thread, but I say Huey has been a net positive for the board so far. He has compiled links which aid the fight against ignorance. He hasn’t caused problems for the volunteer mods. His commentary is loose and impressionistic: he acknowledges that his arguments are not air tight or GD worthy. His topic sure as hell is pit-worthy though.
I haven’t drilled into Huey’s arguments, though again I can tell at a glance that they are not airtight. I have some sympathies with his position though, but not because he’s a member of an historically oppressed group. He is, but that’s not my reason. I’m sympathetic because US media/US culture has a pronounced streak of false white pious horsepucky that papers over our dirty laundry.
Yes, I struggle with characterization as well. I can only work through examples. Midwest rural communities are characterized as the heartland of the US, and I agree it’s politically expedient to do so, though much of the flattery is just that. US soldiers are revered for protecting the US, though of course what they do is at best related to US duties as the world’s (necessary?) hegemon and has little to do with protecting borders. I don’t resent US soldiers at all. But I can perceive the overblown limitless praise they receive (and even participate in it to some extent!). Speaking generally, flattery isn’t always wholly sincere. Then there’s the sympathy directed at white substance abusers, relative to drug addicts of color living in the ghetto. Very different framing.
This intoning and horsepucky has very good reasons for existing, just as northern and southern policy makers had very good reasons for burying the hatchet after reconstruction. But all of the preceding is err… racially problematic sir? Somehow, someway, I imagine certain other groupings might have other perspectives. Perspectives not so marinated in convenient nonsense. Perspectives that haven’t been repeated enough to be familiar and predictable (cough, glibertarianism). Perspectives required on one particular front of the fight against ignorance.
This is just tone policing. In my opinion and experience, all tones, even harsh and sometimes hyperbolic rhetoric, can be effective with certain people in certain circumstances, when the cause is just. I’m not going to tell anyone that they shouldn’t use a harsh or hyperbolic tone when that was the tone that actually worked (in part) to convince me of how strongly white supremacism permeates our society, how destructive it is, and how important it is to eliminate. I don’t think you should either.
You say tone policing as if that is bad or unnecessary. Yet, you choose to police your own tone very carefully. Why is that?