No, I’m saying that asking that question, making that comparison, is in itself fallacious.
j666 does a good job but I’m going to add 2 more: Trolling, see Ambivalid’s excellent summary.
And RACISM. Huey’s blatant nonsense aside, there’s some actual discussion of racism. Can a person of color accuse a white person of racism? Yes indeedy. Can a person of color inflate (or just lie about) some of the stories he posts in a thread about racism, thereby sowing the seeds of distrust? Yes, yes he can. Can a white person push back against a person of color and accuse him of racism? That gets tricky. I can’t even being to encapsulate that part of the conversation. I’ll just kick it off again.
Yes, of course a person of color can be racist. Anyone can be racist. Everyone is racist in ways big and small. It’s a fair cop, in my opinion, to note that Huey is obnoxiously racist. Do we want to have that conversation here? Or is this thread purely the omnibus thread of shitty things that happen to black people? We’ve gotten so focused on Trolly that we haven’t ended up discussing what is happening, and why, or even what can be done.
I wasnt the one who was the originator of that comparison!! I was merely responding to the notion that the comparison was ridiculous! j666 was who claimed that posters in this thread put more significance in Huey’s bluster than in real-world events like the hiring of a nazi as a cop!
<shrug> It’s difficult to buy the idea that the observed differences in autism prevalence is due solely to under reporting by people of color. Seems all-too convenient if you ask me. To me, at worst, the idea reeks of white privilege and white supremacy - because it reinforces the the idea that only white folks would take their ostensible special needs child to the hospital, while people of color would deliberately leave their children to suffer; at best, the explanation attempts to obfuscate an uncomfortable facts by inventing stereotypes from whole cloth. But let’s set all of this aside (not just because this is becoming an exercise in semantics) because this all it begs the question: why would Somali rate of reported autism be higher if their poverty rate is higher than African-Americans as a whole (and it is, 54% vs. 27% cite for African Americans here and cite for Somalis here). If the theory - poverty and/or lack of affordable health care is the primary contributors - held true, it would mean autism rates by Somali population would be lower not higher. This isn’t the case, in fact, the observable facts are the reverse: Somalis are poorer and have less access to health care yet have higher rates of autism.
We’re at an impasse. I revealed my hand on my pet theory of autism and white folks. I prefer to believe that white folks are slightly autistic than to believe they are inhuman. Believe it to not, this is to your (collective your) benefit. As another poster correctly pointed out, I am not here to convince you or to engage. I tried that and was burned. There are many reasons for my lack of engagement (and most have to do with the environment of this message board) but the most practical reason is time. While you guys can pump out post after post every 5 minutes, I have a job, I have bills to pay, I have a house to clean, books to read, emails to write, new anime to watch, and things to do. Writing a post requires a time commitment that’s about an hour or more. And my wife has asked me a few times “Why are you still at that laptop” and it gnaws at me when I lie to her that I’m writing an email. So, even if I respected you and your position, I just don’t have the time required to go back and forth.
Lastly, I think there are white people who do good. First, I like the Amish, the Mennonites, the Quakers - those are some top notch white folks. These white folks either have empathy or incorporated empathy into their culture. Either way, if white folks mimicked these white folks, this country would be a better place. Second, I suspect that European whites are more empathetic but I haven’t been around many Europeans to gauge that for sure. My issue with white conservatives is that they act like monsters and they reject truth; my issue with white liberals is that they often just as racist (though often unintentionally), never admit wrong, and make excuses for white conservatives over and over and over again. For example, when I post the story of a police chief hiring a Nazi, you deflect its seriousness by pointing out that it’s “shittiest state” for racism. How does that work? It doesn’t matter whether Oklahoma is the worst or best state for racism, police chiefs shouldn’t hire violent extremists. Period. I’m know there are white folks do good like your friend in Minnesota who directs a women’s shelter, but, unfortunately, their good gets drowned by the din of white supremacy that has grown louder since 2009 - 2010. This din presents a clear and existential crisis to this country which has manifested, in part, as the current occupant in the White House.
I would say yes, a white person can push back and point out the racism exhibited by a person of color (assuming the definition of racism in use permits it, but lets not open that can of worm), but not not not as the first and only response to an example of STTHTBP.
I might have a different opinion because I came late to the thread. I was the frog thrown into the boiling water. I read post after post after post - #notallwhitepeople, #wellnotONLYwhitepeople, #maybeallandonlywhitepeoplebutthisiscounterproductive. There were very few attempts to engage Huey constructively, and it was a lost cause before the end of the second page.
I think most of us would agree that overt racism is on the rise, because people of lesser privilege and power are being manipulated by those of greater so that those powerful can maintain their privilege. The only question left would be what to do about.
Huey seems to think that reasoned discourse isn’t getting us anywhere, and the rest of the posts are convincing me that he is right. I don’t want blood in the streets, but I can see that those whose blood is already flowing might be less averse to more.
Stop. Listen. Think.
And FFS, stop whining.
ETA:
So Huey has not completely abandoned reasoned discourse.
No shit. You shut up pretty quickly when I pointed out that my autistic child was mixed race.
Meaning what? Other than not seeing your non-scientific nonsense anymore, what benefit do I gain?
Manifestly true. I imagine we must amuse you greatly.
Now, really, you’re lying to her? You can’t just say I have to finish this post?
Big change from 5 seconds ago when all white people were the devil’s work.
That in no way equals anyone making an excuse for any conservative or ANYONE to hire a neo-nazi to be a police officer. Where on earth do you get the idea that liberals are covering for conservatives?
We can agree on this last part in almost all respects. Take out the word “white” before folks. I know there are good folks, white and black - of all races in fact. I stand against this recidivism into racial divides. I will not let Trump’s appeal to fear and hatred win.
You may notice I’m a little angry with you. I’m 95% certain you’re trolling us. I do think the larger message matters though. Fuck Trump, and fuck his deplorable friends. We will climb out of this hole, and we will someday make our way to a better understanding of each other and a more equal society.
Bear in mind you have as much to learn as anybody else.
FWIW, I left the thread early and came back in when Huey and SlackerInc started discussing autism and inbreeding, so I’m missing a big chunk too.
You and I might disagree on reasoned discourse. Huey has a flair for the dramatic.
OMG, that post is rife with low-hanging fruit, just begging to be plucked and devoured. But I-see-no-point. You are a talented gamesman, I’ll give you that. The way you litter your posts with obvious thick irony, self-contradictions, logical fallacies, hypocrisy, you name it. You do this intentionally! Like other gifted internet trolls, you are a talented person who seems to squander that talent on totally inconsequential, trifling pursuits it’s too bad. Imagine all the meatspace lives you could be making better. Instead, you’re online, wasting time and intellectual capita doing absolutely nothing. Hey, me? I’m at home, on mandatory bed rest, recovering from a spleen injury. I gots an excuse. . .
ETA: I see two or three posts beat me to the punch in the time it took me to compose my post. I must be getting tired.
…I really wish it fucking was.
Because the members of the board are really reluctant to address the issue of shitty things that happen to black people anywhere else.
The very least you could do is let the one thread devoted to this issue remain on this issue. Because if you hadn’t noticed: society has very quickly moved on. Shitty things are still happening to black people at the very same rate as they were when this thread was at its peak: but people have stopped caring. Apparently you don’t fucking care anymore. If you cared you would stop with this and pit Huey properly in his own pit thread.
Just explain to her that duty calls.
That’s legitimately the question I was asking. To put it another way - what do we want this one to be? Can it be saved, or is this well poisoned?
If we want a proper thread for addressing the topic of being black in the US, perhaps we just need to start a new one. I’m up for it. Please weigh in.
Still waiting for you to advise if you believe the rise in diagnosed levels of autism in african americans indicates a corresponding rise in inbreeding, as per your theory on white folks.
…this thread was started by a black American to discuss the shitty things that are happening to black Americans.
What you suggest is America in a nutshell. Hijack the thread. Marginalize the OP. Declare it “too poisoned” and then open a newer, cleaner, sanitized version of this thread. With white people writing the OP.
Fuck that bullshit. This thread can be easily saved by just fucking the fuck off.
Telling people their children are cursed because they have a specific ailment has a way of turning them against you, strangely enough.
…and just to be clear: I don’t mean “fuck the fuck off” in a mean way. I think you are awesome Sunny Daze, one of the best people on the boards. And plenty of Huey’s posts here are problematic. And he may well deserve a pitting.
But the subject of this thread is more important than any of that. Its more important than me, more important than any one of us. I’m brown. The last thread I started, the Trevor Noah thread, was hijacked by a whole lot of people insisting that what I was talking about wasn’t important, because Trump. And Trump trumps everything. And we should just pull together and what are you complaining about again?
They have no idea what its like to live in my skin. And I have no idea what its like to be living in Huey’s skin. So I’m going to stick up for this thread because nobody else seems to want to. Because its all too easy to silence our voices. And I’m just ballsy enough to push back, and so I am.
well, yes, shitty things happen to black people because they are black, most decent people would agree to that, and …
And what? Is this just for venting, listing horrible news items, spewing a little anger and hate, and then getting to work? That’s fine with me. Vent.
Is this for people to listen, to share each others experiences, to find common ground to build on? No. That is not the way this has worked out.
Do we want a real dialog on race? On how people of color experience America and how white Americans view people of color and why? That sounds nice in theory but a disaster in practice.
I have a real question, though. What should white people do? This is not their issue to own and control, in my opinion. They might take responsibility for the cause, but cannot for the solution.
What is the next step?
…that can be easily rectified by starting a pit-thread dedicated to Huey and taking that nonsense to that thread.
What exactly is the problem with taking a good idea and starting fresh anyway? We have a requirement that only black Americans can write it? A person of color won’t do? Well, we have some. I’m sure one would be willing if asked nicely. If you don’t want to start fresh, then this is what you are going to get in an un-moderated omnibus thread. 23 pages in, people wander around bitching about how their autistic children aren’t in-bred and debate relative disorder rates by “racial” populations. Why? Because that’s what happens with omnibus threads. If Huey doesn’t have time to play hall monitor, which he seems to be stating, then perhaps someone else can.
ETA: I understand this is important to you. I supported you on the Trevor Noah thread if you go back and look. Stop setting up an us and them on this thread and help figure out how we can fix this. Oddly enough we do want to discuss this.
Okay, sorry.
Of course they shouldn’t! How you could interpret my comment that way is beyond me. My complaint was that you are cherrypicking the worst of the worst (a police chief in Oklahoma? That is pretty much guaranteed to be a nightmare) and generalizing that as representative of all or even most American white people. When I say Oklahoma is the worst, that doesn’t imply “and therefore, shitty things people do there are okay”. WTF
Anyway, Banquet Bear thinks the thread should be for black people to air their gripes, with no white people weighing in. I don’t really care to argue the point, so I’ll unsubscribe from the thread after hitting “send”. If there’s a reply someone really wants me to see, you’ll have to DM me. Bye.
…its more than “just venting.”
Its keeping it in the conciseness of the American people.
I follow a lot of people on Black Twitter. And the stories are still coming. But the stories have dried up in this thread. Why have they dried up?
Because people have stopped caring. It no longer has news value. The anger, the outrage, the discrimination all still exists. The outrageous videos are all still being posted online. But the news cycle has moved on. And we’ve moved on as well.
And if you are comfortable with moving on, and if you can live with moving on, then carry on as you wish.