Living with an Eating Disorder, In need of an anonymous ear.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Hello. I’m a long time lurker. Through the years, my impression of the board has become one of diverse personalities, above average intelligence, sympathetic ears and most importantly, honesty, even if that means the opinion expressed seems harsh. What I want to talk about I can’t discuss with my friends or my family, and so this, an internet forum of scattered and anonymous strangers, is sadly the best place I can think of to come to with my problem.

For years I’ve been suffering from intermittant bouts of eating disordered behavior. I’m twenty currently, and can remember having body image trouble as far back as eight. I was put into homeschooling for one year in grade three, during which time I was allowed to become inactive and fat. When I was put back into school at nine I began throwing out my lunches so that I would not have to eat. My weight fluctuated through puberty, as many girls experiance, and I recall the first time I ever purged (stuck my finger down my throat to bring my meal back up) I was 11. I had mostly abandoned this sort of behavior, which I did not practice frequently and which I used mostly as a tool for attention anyway, by the time I was 13. For a time being I was mostly happy, and my weight increased slightly. I was on the plump side of average, average being plump to start with, of course.

But around the age of about 16 or 17 I felt myself being sucked into my first truely major bout of what would later be diagnosed as clinical depression. The quality of my homelife was deteriorating. Not because my parents were particularily bad, but we simply never could, and most likely never will, agree on anything. At that age and as anti-social and negative as I had been feeling, fights were over-blown and intolerable. I began old habits of purging. I’m not sure why, exactly. It could have been as simple as me simply being unhappy and repeating sel-destructive habits I was familiar with. It might have been as a way of excersizing some controll over what I felt like was a situation I had no grasp on at all. At 17 I moved out and began to add new behaviors such as starving myself.

From purging to starvation was an easy step to take once I moved out into my friends home, then later a different friends basement. With no parents to cook for me, or supervise my meal times I was free to eat as infrequently as I desired. It was during this time that I met my ex boyfriend, M. M made me feel good about myself, and made me happy generally. With this new found comfort and satisfaction, my destructive behaviors began to ebb, and then recede completely.

At the end of that year, M was to leave for University halfway across the country, and I packed my bags and went with him, delaying my own education and leaving my friends behind. If M had made me feel better about myself, it only serves as a good lesson that one must never take their sense of self-worth from another. With M often at class, and me often at work, and no friends in this strange city, the depression which I had felt nibbling on the back of my brain and which I had tried so hard to repress allowed itself to envelope me. Instead of starvation, however, this time I turned to binge eating, probably trying to fill whatever void the decreased support from M had left. Occasionally I would be disgusted with myself and purge or, worse, I’d eat till I was so physically uncomfortable that I HAD to vomit. But this was obviously too infrequent to matter, and I ballooned in weight to a repulsive 174lbs at my peak when I finally came home when M’s university let out for summer. He broke up with me almost immediately upon arriving home.

I myself had to return to the same University next fall, as it was the only place I had applied to. That they had accepted my portfolio, and with some time to reflect on my previous situation, I was feeling more confident and hopeful. A large component of this optimism was derived from the knowledge that I would once again be out of the site of my family and would be free to shed the excess weight I had gained with M. I set about it with great gusto, starving constantly and purging when I broke.

Sometime around midterms/Christmas I suffered a breakdown, regaining some of the weight I had lost. I tried antidepressants for the first time during this time as well. I found the side affects almost as unpleasant as the disease, and went off them quickly. I had an epiphany during the break, and came back to school calmer, but with no continued interest in my major. I spent my time making friends, and immpersed myself in introspective reflection. I was the closest to happy I could remember being since childhood. And yet, my eating disorder remained.

I dropped 20lbs in the first couple of months, then regained 15 by the end of Christmas. I dropped another 30 the next semester but slowly put about 10 back on over the summer when I was stuck with my parents once again. In order to stop this slow growth I moved the first opportunity I got to where I am now. It’s a full year since my first day of university, and I’ve gone from 174lbs to 128, though in total, I believe that makes an accumulated loss of 70lbs.

I apologize for how incredibly long winded and self absorbed this post is. I’d also like to clarify right now, if anyone is even still reading, that I’m not looking for any kind of medical advice, as I know that’s not allowed on these boards. I’m simply looking for a place to tell my story and discuss my feelings about this issue. I have no one else to whom I may express these thoughts and feelings. I will continue in a second post after this one. I just wanted to give you the (too long) backstory. This will also give the Mods an opportunity to close this thread if it’s too long, or the subject taboo in a way I was unaware of.

2

The subject has been discussed in other threads and we promise we won’t beat up on you.

3

The reason I can’t tell this story to any one else, or discuss out I feel is that I don’t want to stop. This is the problem. I hate my disorder, I hate how shallow it makes me feel, that it touches so much of my entire life, yet is about so little. I hate that I know I’m harming myself in the long run. I hate the secrets, I hate the waste, I hate that terrible moment right after purging when there are tears and snot all over your face, vomit on your fingers, sometimes on your face. You don’t feel beautiful, which is the goal, isn’t it? And yet I can’t stop, and I don’t even want to.

As I mentioned before, I have been diagnosed with clinical depression, which for the time being at least I have under control, and an anxiety disorder that I know when to ignore when it rears it’s irrational head. I talk to myself endlessly, check myself endlessly, making sure I’m on the right track with these illnesses. With the help of friends and careful objective reasoning on my part I was able to see that there was more to what I was feeling, rise above it. I didn’t want to let it control me. But with the eating disorder I can’t rid myself of the feeling like it’s doing me well…I’ve lost 47lbs in a year. I could still stand to lose more. I havn’t experianced any adverse health issues yet. In my worst moments I look at it like something positive, like a tool, something that I can use to make myself over into whatever I want.

But I still have a rational side that knows this is dangerous. And I know in my heart that it’s not a tool because IT controls ME. I’ve never seen the hammer that does that. I can feel my objectives changing. I used to say when I’m this weight, when I’m that one it’ll be good enough, I’ll be happy, I’ll be satisfied. But as my body gets closer to what I had originally considered ideal I watch my ideal shift down to a smaller, more boney one, so that I’m always chasing something, never really acheiving. I know that if I don’t stop soon I could do real damage to myself.

So what am I even doing here? I don’t really know what I’m expecting or even looking for with this post. I just know that the urge to tell someone is getting very strong, but I’m too afraid to speak to loved ones. I don’t want them to stop me by thier own force of will. I want to choose it, if I do, and I want to be free to relapse if I so choose as well. I don’t want them to worry about me and watch me like a hawk. When I was depressed I let people know, because there was no behavior for them to erase from me, or to force on me. But there were the thoughts of suicide which I never devulged for the same reasons. I think I just want a dialogue about this, it’s too hard to think objectively with no one to present ideas to, and this problem is too large to continue to keep to myself.

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to read this thread, even if you don’t say anything, it makes me feel better someone knows it. Thanks especially to anyone who takes time out of their day to reply, even if the reply is just “get over yourself, chubby!”.

4

I’ll be glad to read whatever you want to post on the topic. I hope it’s helpful to you.

5

Standard and situation-specific disclaimers: I am not a doctor, I have never been dx with clinical dep (although other psych labels have been applied), I do not now nor have I ever had an eating disorder AFAIK.

Here are my thoughts.

a) I doubt that it’s going to work for you to simply “not do the eating-disorder thing”. That’s just another way of saying “eat normally”, with any eating-behavior that’s not normal becoming another form of eating disorder, yes? But what is “eat normally”? So most likely some dietary regimen is probably a good idea. I would imagine that at this point you don’t have a good easy un-selfconscious baseline for “eat normally”, right?

b) The diet that you choose to go with should be healthy in the sense that you could stick to that diet essentially for the rest of your life with no negative consequences. That is, it should not deprive you of any of the nutrients or sustanance that a person needs from the food that they eat.

c) The diet that you choose to go with should provide you with opportunities to enjoy food, enjoy its taste, obtain emotional satisfaction from the eating of it. You should not pick a diet that is going to leave you feeling significantly deprived, or make you feel that you are sacrificing in perpetuity foods you’d enjoy for the higher purpose of sticking to your diet. (Some limitations on quantity or how often or in combo with other similar foods is probably reasonable though).

d) You might want to put aside any secondary goals such as “I want to lose __ pounds” or “I want a waistline of __ inches” or whatever until you’ve hit a pretty persistent rhythm of success on a diet that meets the primary goal of “I want to eat a varied, nutritious, diet of tasty foods in reasonable quantities at pretty consistent intervals”.
I would take those notions to some doctors (yes, I’d consult more than one, get multiple opinions) and look at some of the dietary guidelines/schedules they recommend.

Also, you need to make friends with food. I think you have a kind of love-hate relationship with food and eating, most of the emotional content of which has to do with people and being cared for and being made to feel safe and stuff like that; I think it would be good to try to experience emotional responses to food as food. Spend a little extra at least once a week and go out for (or stay in and cook) food that is alleged to be truly fantastic eating, superlative cuisine. At first, don’t mingle it with social occasions, just eat alone. (And yes, I know it can feel awkward to go out alone to a nice restaurant, but pretend you write food reviews for a culinary magazine or something and just do it) Taste the food. Enjoy it for its own sake. Make eating special, and cultivate a sense of pickiness and particularity that isn’t about duty or sacrifice but is instead about reserving the eating experience to good eating.

OK, that’s a lot of opinionated verbiage from someone who has no reason to act like he’s got a clue so I’ll shut up now.

6

AHunter3, thanks for your comments and input. When you say I have no real good baseline for what normal eating is, you’re perfectly correct. After an almost solid year of letting my eating disorder take control, I no longer even know how to binge properly. The last few weeks I’ve been eating in what I feel is a disgusting manor, and yet I’m still losing about a lb or two a week. That’s because I feel like a trail bar for breakfast, a sandwich for dinner and some popcorn during a movie is exsessive.

As for diets and regimens, I’m a long time vegetarian, recent vegan convert. This was a morality based decision, not a weight based one, so that would have to continue through any dietary recomendations. I know what healthy eating is, objectivly…I’m just stalled at execution. What I’m most afraid of is going to a nutritionist, being put on something, and gaining weight simply because I’m eating anything at all. I don’t know if this is irrational, or if because I’ve possibly ruined my metabolism, a reality based fear.

Depressingly, more than the fear of self-harm, I think the main reason I’m seeking out the possibility of recovery…is because I know boys don’t like girls as thin as girls like girls in general, especially as thin as sick girls like girls. I think most of the men on this board would agree, or else supermodles would be porn stars, and porn stars wouldn’t get laid because they were too chubby. I think one of my troubles now is distinguishing whether or not I’ve reached a level that other people consider attractive. I’m too confused by my own long held fears and self-disgust to really see myself properly. I know, of course, that I should simply try to make myself happy. Look good for yourself, yes? But I’ve ALWAYS thought that waif-like is the best figure. What makes me happy would hurt me. I have no moral compass in this situation. What I want is wrong, taking cues from others is shallow.

7

There’s a lot of very tasty vegan food and some very accomplished folks who like to cook it. I’m sorry to say that as a cuisine, it’s often buried in a thick layer of really bad vegan food prepared and/or cooked by and for people who are dour and exceedingly sacrificial and holier-than-thou about why they are vegans, and who eat stuff that looks and tastes like chunks of grassy mulch yanked from the bottom of a lawn mower and chewed on, raw. Go find some veggie restaurants around college campuses where they do vegan soups and spicy stews and roasted roots and nut pastes on homemade grain breads, vegan food to die for. (mmmm, fresh homemade nut paste!)

Meanwhile, the flip side of what I said about relating to food as food is that you need to consciously work on unhooking food and food-related issues (including body morphology and weight) from issues pertaining to acceptance, popularity, approval, love, and caregiving support.

The truth about my gender is that we find women who obsess about the attractiveness to us of their bodies (or lack therof) are way way way less enticing than women (regardless of appearance) whose attitude is “Here I am, warts and all, hope you like it, cuz I do and it’s me, but if you don’t go find a different girl”.

Chasing a healthier body to get close to us is therefore counterproductive. Chase a healthier body to get close to you. You can’t effectively be in relationships with people until you have a you that you can bring into the relationship, a you that hasn’t been configured mostly with potential relationships in mind. Until and unless there are passionate interests in your life for which any boyfriend-relationship (current or potential) can just take a back seat and wait until you have time for them, until and unless you have “a life” which you care about and which exists independently of someone to be in love with and share it with, you don’t have any “you” to bring to the relationship. Subtract the relationship from you and there’s no there there, see? Guys are always, inevitably going to leave that, and aren’t going to value that. They’re going to experience that situation as “She only lives for ME” (which isn’t true, it’s more like you only live for The Relationship, but with no “you” in the Relationship, it ends up being all about him and what’s important to him, and it very quickly devolved into a tug-of-war between The Relationship and everything else that’s important to him.

I did it again, sorry.

8

You could try Overeaters Anonymous
http://www.oa.org/index.htm

See if there are meetings in your area. I think you could benefit with talking to people with food/weight issues face to face. I’ve heard lots of positive things about them. No one will judge you (not that they are here) but you’ll get lots of support and good advice.

I had an eating disorder in my 20’s also. I have no idea why, I came from a fairly affluent, middle class family with no real problems at all. I put on a few pounds and when I lost weight I got so many ‘rewards’, people telling me how good I looked, how did I do it, etc. that I think I got addicted to the feeling. I got a wake-up call of sorts when I ended up in the hospital vomiting blood.

I was OK until my 30’s. Same thing happened but instead of the bulimia, I became addicted to exercise. I mean I would wake up in the middle of the night and go running.
I pretty much exercised non-stop. I was in therapy, but I think I realized that because I was thinner, my life wasn’t better. I don’t think I’ll every have a ‘normal’ relationship with food, and I still tend to obsess over weight/food issues.

Why we do things is so complicated, I really don’t have any answers. I do know what your going through and I sympathise with you so much, and know you aren’t alone. I really think it will help you immensely if you talk to someone, which is why I would suggest a support group.

Good luck.

9

At twenty, do you have control over your health insurance and so on? You might want to just talk to a professional like once or twice. Lots of professionals suck, I know, but if you’re over 18, you can just back out if you need to.
Things change when you’re just out with it. In some ways, obviously, things are harder. People start paying attention to what you eat (which is annoying) or treating you like you’re made of glass. It makes it harder to engage in disordered behaviors without people noticing.

But it is a load off. I was in pretty harsh denial- swore up and down that I was fine and not that thin, then finally admitted to myself that I might be a little eccentric and neurotic, but so what? But everyone knew or suspected. I kept telling myself that it wasn’t that obvious, they couldn’t prove it, they were all wrong, how dare they accuse me of being sick when I’m fine, etc. But when it all fell apart and came out… It was strangely liberating. I had been in this state of panicked denial, desperate to keep my secret and frightened anytime someone indicated that they knew, and all of a sudden I realized it didn’t matter anymore and I could relax.
Anyway… good luck on getting your life back.

10

I’ve been through it, and gained and lost a whole hell of a lot more weight than you’re looking at :wink: .
I’m on the road now to a good situation, although I have at different points in my life been in your place insofar as the concept of being perfectly comfortable with the purging. It was just the after-meal routine, like brushing your teeth or washing your hands.
It’s not right or wrong… you’re correct in that it’s not good for your health, and will eventually lead to long-term issues. I have tooth problems from all the stomach acid, and issues with intractible nausea and reflux, probably because I’ve damaged the valves that keep your food in your belly.
I wish that I’d never been in the situations that lead to my eating disorder(s), but rarely regretted it at the time it was happening.
Keep talking if you like… I’ll definitely keep listening.

11

No. You realise that what you want is wrong, therefore it is only right to take advice from the wise. Girl! from what I read here you are not dumb, you are not stupid, you are self-aware, you know what’s going down, you know yourself well. Respect your impulse to post here, it was your underlying instinct for self-preservation and you should value that.

Point one. You are not vegan for ethical reasons; IMO you are vegan because it is an excuse to undereat. While it is possible to eat a healthy vegetarian or even vegan diet it is hard, and it seems to me you are doing it precisely to help yourself dodge the issue. Re-evaluate what it is you like to eat, what you used to like to eat for its own sake before you were like this, and leave the ethical considerations to when you are healthy again and more able to make wise decisions.

Point two. Posting here was the best thing you’ve done so far. While we can be judgemental (and you seem to have taken that into account), our collective judgement is unbiased. Your *crie de coeur *is not self-absorbtion, but an entirely rational step in your situation. You feel you can’t rely on friends or relatives. so you turn to a wise group of strangers. Well done!

Point three. You are in essence self-harming in order to look good. But look at your record; even if you are thinking thin=good, you haven’t managed it for more than a few weeks or maybe months in a row; imagine looking at yourself in the mirror when you are 30, 40 or 50. On average you are likely to live to over 80! You are maybe 1/4 of the way through your life; a few months of looking “good” right now will cost you your looks later. Rotting teeth and sagging skin will make you feel worse then. Every woman I know near my age (50) regrets smoking, tanning, and the weight gain/loss cycle. Stability is where it’s at.

What you need to do, it seems to me, is find a place within yourself where you can be, calmly and even in a mildly self-satisfied way. You may need help with that, and there is absolutely no shame or disgrace in seeking that help. If you had a broken leg you’d seek medical help with no qualms; well this is more severe than that! A broken leg lasts for a ferw weeks, but this if left untreated could last a lifetime. There are lots of quacks out there but finding the right medically qualified help will do it for you, I’m sure.

12

Thank you, everyone for the comments. Firstly, I want to address some of what AHunter3 said about my attitudes towards relationships, and my attitude about my body in front of people.

Firstly, this is a very PRIVATE thing. I don’t seem to obsess over weight in front of anyone. The more attention I draw to my weight the more a person is likely to consiously notice it shrinking, or pay attention to when I eat, how much I eat, and “gee, why does she always ‘have to pee’ after every meal?” I try to talk about my weight as little as possible in front of everyone.

Secondly, as far as trying to be thin only for men, and bringing nothing to a relationship because I have no sense of self…I know you meant the comment in the best of intentions, but I was slightly offended, mostly because it’s a mischaracterization. Being thin is not about trying to snag a man. A little bit, but not really. Trying to stop getting thin is more about snagging a man, because rationally I realise it’s going to be obvious and unattractive if I dip more than 10 or 15 pounds below where I am now. There are a lot of reasons why I want to be thin, a lot of them I can’t define, but I know that a relationship is not the biggest part of that, not nearly. There are control issues, there are some self loathing issues that are attached to my body alone. I don’t feel I am a bad person, and I have a lot of passions and interests. This disgust I feel applies ENTIRELY to my body. My first long term relationship, as I mentioned, I took too much self worth from. I learned my lesson, and I definitly would not live for someone else ever again. I have my art, my writing, my volunteer work and hopefully soon I’ll be getting involved in some political/environmental activism. I have a lot of outside interests. And anyone who says “you can’t go to mexico for a month and build houses! I’ll miss you!” is someone I don’t need or want.

Askance - I think you’re very correct in calling me out over my veganism. I recall that original paragraph being a lot more revealing before I edited and posted. More revealing in the “me thinks the lady doth protest too much” sense. I recall a pre-emptive defense of how veganism was popular in anorexic communities, and a small sad comment about how much I missed cheese. Veganism has helped me lose so much weight with out even trying…I think I could eat so long as I kept this one thing. I don’t feel like I could drop them both, I need at least one. Which makes me wonder how much of this is purely a control issue.

I have so little control over so many things. I hate my job, I’m in debt, I don’t drive, I don’t know where I’m going or what I’m doing. But when I look out I don’t see solutions for any of it. Without this one small thing to hold on to, I don’t have anything at all.

I’m sorry. I’m being difficult to help. Now it’s a much bigger kettle of fish, isn’t it?

13

I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who took the time to comment. Just having an objective ear to listen to you is enough for you to often find solutions. There’s something about the process of being able to discuss a thing that makes it so much clearer, no matter what kind of thinker you are.

Upon reflection I’ve come to realize that this problem has a lot more to do with control than anything else. Which is probably why it’s beginning to bother me. I don’t feel I’m in controll of it anymore. I have so little control over much of my life…I have a job that doesn’t give me enough hours, I mooch off my mother (shame!), I can’t drive. I had a plan to move back to the coast from where I am right now. But I think that was just my typical “run away from it and start again” behavior, and I don’t think that’s good for me. It’s too easy to blame my circumstances on my constant moving. I’m looking for another job tomorrow, hopefully one that will give me more hours. The responsibility will do me good, I think. I’ll also stop taking free money from my parents, at twenty I think it’s about time. It’s a step in the right direction…I’m going to look into going back to school, though I don’t know what for yet. Illustration, or English with a mind to teaching maybe.

As for the eating disorder itself…my plan is, at this point to just continue whatever patterns feel alright to me at the time, and hope that as I take more control over things my focus can shift to a healthier place.

Obvoiusly my problems haven’t been solved in 11 posts. I’m not sure if I’m going in the right direction. I still welcome any and all further comments on this or previous posts of mine. Thank you again for giving me a place I could go with this.

14

I didn’t want to start answering before your second post and then the sun went down…
As I read AHunter’s note, he was linking “wanting to stop the food problems for the boys”, not “wanting to be thin for the boys”, so it sounds to me like you two actually agree there. He was saying that you have to be good to you… four you. Happiness doesn’t come from food but it doesn’t come from other people either. And it doesn’t seem to come with violin music, which is kind of a pity if you like violin music :slight_smile: One day you suddenly realize that you’re happy and it’s weird, because all your life you’ve thought violin music was a requirement and apparently it’s not.

Sometimes, writing things down or speaking them aloud can help you find your own solutions. Please talk to us any time you need to.

15

If I may ask: Why don’t you drive?

Just curious; I didn’t drive either until I was 21 years old, and I remember how powerless it made me.

16

Feel free to post away. You’ll get support here.

I’ve had weight problems myself. They’re somewhat the opposite of yours; I tend to be a binge/comfort eater and as a result, I’m overweight. The thing that has helped me the most has been WeightWatchers, predominantly because it gave me a structure in which I was totally in control. You might find a group near you and go check them out. There’s a very real possibility that you’ll be able to find that same degree of structure and control.

Good luck and keep us posted.

17

I feel for you. I am going throught the same thing right now. All my life I felt “fat” and wanted to hide. I am 34 now, and for the past three years have basically become immersed in my eating disorder. In 2003 I lost almost 50 lbs, went from overweight to underweight in a manner of months purging pretty much anything I ate. I basically stopped for awhile, afraid I was going to kill myself by it…I ate small amounts, gained about 10-15 lbs until I was normal…fast forward until the past year, where I started obsessing more again. Now, due to circumstances (stresses, friends with eating disorders, moving, money, worries about aging, etc) I have been doing deliberate binge/purges, alternated with severe restriction. The past week has been amazingly purge free…I’m hoping to keep it that way, but at the same time, I still want to lose “just a few more” down to double digits.

I go through the same thing you do, feeling like I am the most selfish, most shallow person ever. I have kids, I try to hide it all from them, but I am sure I am screwing them up. My own stupid, self imposed problems seem so pathetic when compared to others. And like you, I don’t want to give it up exactly. Part of me does. But the other part says if the alternative is to gain weight, then I would rather have the eating disorder. I have friends (and my husband) that tell me, it’s easy! Just eat! Just don’t puke!

I’m quite a bit older then you, but if you want to talk, just email me or post here and I’ll email you.

18

I feel for you. I am going throught the same thing right now. All my life I felt “fat” and wanted to hide. I am 34 now, and for the past three years have basically become immersed in my eating disorder. In 2003 I lost almost 50 lbs, went from overweight to underweight in a manner of months purging pretty much anything I ate. I basically stopped for awhile, afraid I was going to kill myself by it…I ate small amounts, gained about 10-15 lbs until I was normal…fast forward until the past year, where I started obsessing more again. Now, due to circumstances (stresses, friends with eating disorders, moving, money, worries about aging, etc) I have been doing deliberate binge/purges, alternated with severe restriction. The past week has been amazingly purge free…I’m hoping to keep it that way, but at the same time, I still want to lose “just a few more” down to double digits. Right now I have had 2 bites of peanut butter today, that is pretty much it. I know I need to eat more, I will probably find something small later. I also walk a lot and work out.

I go through the same thing you do, feeling like I am the most selfish, most shallow person ever. I have kids, I try to hide it all from them, but I am sure I am screwing them up. My own stupid, self imposed problems seem so pathetic when compared to others. And like you, I don’t want to give it up exactly. Part of me does. But the other part says if the alternative is to gain weight, then I would rather have the eating disorder. I have friends (and my husband) that tell me, it’s easy! Just eat! Just don’t puke! I know it SHOULD be that easy, but for some reason, it isn’t. The panic we feel after eating doesn’t allow for much rational thoughts.

I’m quite a bit older then you, but if you want to talk, just email me or post here and I’ll email you.