As I said I’ve meant plenty of adult assholes. . .
I’m just living my life here, trying to get along, and there’s assholes out there saying inflammatory shit and then coming back with “get over yourself” when people get upset. Sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up, if you can’t say anything even remotely useful.
oh god, I’m gonna regret that moment of righteous anger
Ok, ** Mtgman ** you have a valid point. Now, why didn’t you start a pit thread about it? Why didn’t one of the other’s who was there, in the first thread?
I didn’t participate in the first thread, and I certainly don’t condone name calling. The point is, transgressions were committed by BOTH sides on this issue.
Some cranky childfree adults decided to vent, and wrongly generalized children/people who have children in an insulting manner, Lobsang took offense to this, and instead of saying this right off the bat, he attacked everyone who participated in the lifestyle by generalizing them in an insulting way. He also promised a pit thread, which he never started because although he claimed to have work to do he made 9 more posts to the offending thread instead of making a pit thread as promised.
See? Errs on both sides. I ask again, can’t we make a treaty now that wrongdoing has been admitted on both sides?
tdn wrote
Bully for you, friend.
Diane, what part of “anomaly due to small sample size” did you not catch? The parents I know personally don’t do volunteer work, and when we talk about something we were able to do on the spur of the moment, or whatever, they sigh and say, “I wish we could do that.” I’m sure that not every parent in the wold is like that, but all the ones I have to deal with are.
Mtgman, I think you may have missed something in the tone of the OP in the linked thread. I, and most other CFers, read it as a joke. You know, like when I refer to my “stupid mutts”.
“Fighting ignorance”? Do you really think we haven’t all heard (repeatedly and at great length) about how fabulous everyone’s children are, and how life just isn’t complete without them. Do you really? It’s not ignorance, it’s a difference in perception, one which a lot of parents seem either unwilling or unable to accept.
Oh I caught it. What I was referring to was the entire attitude and impression I got while reading that, and this, thread. In otherwords, there was a lot of judgmental attitudes and assumptions made about parents.
Parents that regret having kids and do shit like sigh and say, “I wish we could do that” make me want to puke.
If you have the right attitude about it, you can have as much fun with a child as you can without…just a different kind of fun.
I can’t wait to take my child to Disneyworld, for instance. I wouldn’t go without him if I could.
Um, as a childless married woman, I’d like to say I disagree with all of what is written in this post. Who cares if people think their kids are the next Einstein? Hell, I’ve heard the stories from proud parents lots of times. The incredible tales of perfect spelling tests, early reading, talking out of the womb- you just let it roll off. They’re parents- I think it’s great that they expect the best from their kids. Better for them to treat them like they have great potential then the alternative, IMHO.
I think it’s incredibly rude to refer to children as “yard monkeys” or any other derogatory name. Why is that needed or OK? That’s like referring to dogs as “walking shit machines”, then when someone gets offended saying “well, I didn’t mean YOURS”. Duh. Common sense says not to do this. Being childless doesn’t mean you hate kids, and the people who use terms like this make it sound like we all do. I don’t - I love kids.
And the term “breeders”? I certainly don’t use it. I’ve heard it use in a derogatory manner before and I just don’t like the way it comes off. CF parlance? I’m not familiar with a different set of terms used by Childfree people. I call them “parents”, which is what they are.
I think if everyone took a step back and used some common sense, it would make a world of difference. No one likes to hear something they love called nasty names. Duh. No one likes to be judged by their personal choices. Duh. Other people’s reproductive choices are their business and not open to scrutiny by anyone. Duh.
And most of all (and most pertinent to the OP), childfree people have the right to discuss their lives without interference by people with kids. Duh. Have a problem with the phrasing or the issue? Start a GD or Pit thread. If the thread isn’t about you, stay out. Don’t have a dog? Don’t post in dog threads. Hate Star Wars? Stay out of SW discussions. How hard is this, really?
I’m wondering why a few child-free people are verging on being militant about the issue? There’s more bitterness there than there ought to be.
Start a Pit thread. What the fuck is so hard to understand about that? One simple post in the original thread linking to the Pit thread would be a reasonable non-hijack. We didn’t have so much of a problem with what he said, it was WHERE he said it. Do you get it Mtgman and BobH? The Mod in charge saw it for what it was and agreed. You were wrong. Get over it.
Lobsang behaved like an ass. He posted his opinion, then he apologized and promised to start a Pit thread. Ten posts later, I called him on it, a few short minutes after his last post. The shithead later writes a post complaining that I should refer to his (second) apology in the Pit. The kicker is that I wrote my post 12 minutes before his Pit apology, the second apology for that same assholish behavior I might add.
Again, it was where he made his complaint, not what he said.
Haj
I guess it depends on a person’s experiences. I’ve known some kids that… well, let’s just say that calling them “yard monkeys” would have been a compliment. I would have actually used “target practice” in their case.
Come on Spoofe…and I’ve known lots of husbands that are lying cheating fucking idiots. That doesn’t mean I refer to husbands in general that way and think people won’t get offended. I’ve known lots of kids I didn’t like, but calling them “yardmonkeys” as a collective term and not expecting people to be pissed is just ridiculous.
My oh my, deary me - I have admitted I did wrong yet we are still debating and telling me I did wrong.
I did say I would stop attacking people who don’t want kids (not in so many words) and then went on to attack people who don’t like kids/the overpopulation of the world There is a difference. However I shouldn’t have posted after that at all. I admit I was wrong there.
ratty I’ve posted 2809 posts, and I’ve been here for over a year. In that time I have behaved badly and then apologised oh, about 8 times (correct me if I am wrong). Now 8 sounds like a lot, but when you spread it out over a year, and consider that most of it is during the early part of the year, it really isn’t that much.
everyone else I have admitted I was wrong. I took offence to the not to flattering way people refered to children. It is a forum for opinions isn’t it? I expressed an opinion which was fueled by anger.
kambuckta and a few others - It means a lot to have you on my side. I thank you.
Well, you get that on both sides of any hot button issue- you have your “I HATE KIDS!!!” people and your “YOU’RE SELFISH AND EVIL FOR NOT HAVING KIDS” people. Then you have all the rational people in the middle who get drowned out in the ensuing nonsense. Happens in most issues of this nature- I use the Olympic scoring method of reading. I throw out the top 5 pro arguments and the lowest 5, then read the middle ones.
Once again, and for about the 100th time, the issue is not your opinion as much as where you posted it.
No, no it isn’t the right forum for it. If you wanted to open your own thread about how childfree people refer to children in derogatory ways, then no problem. It IS the forum for opinions, but in that particular thread, your opinion wasn’t welcome. Can you really not understand that? Right church, wrong pew. I’m not trying to beat a dead horse, but you really don’t seem to get this point at all, and it’s an important one. It’s OK to disagree- it’s not OK to hijack an ongoing thread with your disagreement. If your post is irrelavent to the question/opinion being asked by the OP, then don’t post it. That’s pretty basic board behavior guidelines, I think.
What part of “I was wrong” don’t you understand Zette? Why are you continuing to tell me what I already know?
:rolleyes:
Right back at you, Lobsang. If you understand the problem, then why post “It is a forum for opinions isn’t it?” when you know damned well you were wrong? Apologies with justifications just don’t sit well with me, I guess.
Quite frankly, I just saw that thread today. I normally don’t read threads about childfree issues because I really don’t have much interest in the topic. As I said, I believe everyone should be able to seek their own happiness in their own way. Once I read it I did notice the derision towards those who are not “childfree”(although, to be fair, it was mostly focused on the asshats parents who criticize childfree couples for their choice) and children in general. I also believe most of it is undeserved or overgeneralized. In the end though, I just don’t care enough to start a new pit thread on it.
I have no axe to grind in the childfree arena. What I am interested in is the rule from Czarcasm that seems to imply that if we see someone being derisive towards groups of people and we believe that derision to be founded in ignorance(overgeneralized stereotypes and poor impressions of parental realities in this case. Although some have chalked this up to humorous hyperbole, certainly careful consideration will lead them to acknowledge that having parenthood as an institution derided might offend some parents.) we should open a new thread in the pit to combat it. After reading the first few posts in that thread I was thinking “You know, this thread needs some perspective. Parenthood isn’t the constant mindless drudgery or slavery to children and their needs that it is being represented as here.” I fail to see why that message, stated politely(which is where Lobsang fell down), would be inappropriate or why I would need to start a new thread to make such a request. This is an honest question Czarcasm. Why can’t we, politely, issue some criticism if a “conversation” is turning into a rant-fest? Would you prefer all such posts be reported to moderators? Would you prefer all such posts generate pit threads? I was under the impression that pit threads between posters were a major source of headaches for the staff and a polite disagreement with a premise in the OP could be handled in the thread without starting something like this thread.
To anyone interested: I’ve acknowledged that I understand why childfree people feel persecuted. I’m also certain you don’t hold such a low opinion of parenthood and children as the pre-hijack portion of that thread indicated, but I’d simply like to ask that you reserve the derision for people who actually persecute you instead of heaping it on any and all parents. Some of us honestly don’t think you’ve done anything out of line or that your choices are empty or selfish. In return I’d like acknowledgement that your descriptions of parenthood are hyperbolic and your descriptions of children as some sort of monsters are as well.
Is it too much to ask for perspective and balance to be resepcted on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance? Especially in a non-rant forum? Want to rant about crappy parents and bratty kids? Sure thing. A few of those active in the pit right now. But to casually mock the entire institution, seemingly at every opportunity, especially in a non-rant thread… Well, that is going to raise hackles.
Enjoy,
Steven
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
It was the wrong forum for what I did. I was wrong. It is a forum for opinions. But it was the wrong forum to get mad in. I should have started a pit or great debates thread. I know that. I know that That’s why I said I would create a pit thread. I didn’t have time to create one at the time, and got mad at some things people said after I posted.
:rolleyes:
oh and :rolleyes:
One more clarification. The OP of the original thread contained two parts.
I have no issues with people relating their experiences, positive or negative. Nor do I believe that thread was a proper place to criticise the class of people whose opinions were solicited or the lifestyle the represent. I do have issues with, and believe it should be allowable to openly(in the same thread, not just the pit), and POLITELY, question number two.
As I am pretty sure the part of the original OP that established #2 was meant semi-humorously I can’t really imagine that a polite rejoinder would cause problems. I am fairly sure the thread belongs in the pit if #2 was NOT meant humorously.
Enjoy,
Steven