Lobsang, you miserable, judgmental lump of shit

The BBQ Pit
101

Actually,kam, the problem a lot of us had wasn’t with being called selfish, it was the “obvious disregard for human life” comment that went about half a continent over the line.

And, of course, having kids just because you want them and they make you feel fulfilled is “selfish” too, isn’t it? I mean, you’re doing it to make yourself happy, because that’s what you want.

And Lob children are human beings, but they’re frequently loud, annoying human beings. Some folks don’t like loud, annoying people, regardless of age. It’s a pesonal preference, and not something to get all bent out of shape over.

For Og’s sake, I don’t get a porcupine in my panties when people say, “Eeewww, I’d never have a dog. Dogs are loud and pushy and they stick their noses in your crotch and track mud everywhere, and they get fleas and ticks and worms, and they shed everywhere and poop everywhere.” I accept that some folks just don’t have the same visceral reaction to them that I do, and go on with my life. I do NOT start in on how shallow and selfish such a viewpoint is.

It’s called common courtesy, and it’s meant to avoid giving offense so that you don’t have anything to apologize for.

102

Hmmmmmmmmm, No, you aren’t coming across as sarcastic.

And good question. Let me try, in my weakened state, (lol).

First, I guess I’d have to say that to demean all children by calling them all truly mean names, (and not the lightly teasing “ya little rugrats” as my dad and uncles did), is in your words “not very nice”.

As to the disliking them as a group, not being the same as a person not liking black people?

Kids do things, such as my aforementioned noisiness etc, that are often agonizing to kid people and non-kid people alike. They do it as a direct consequence of BEING kids. They have a lot of energy, they can’t help how they are.

I can’t think of something that minorities do that is equivelant to this particular “kid trait”. But I do believe that it is that, and other “kid traits” that cause the dislike and or disinterest in having any.

But, those who prefer a childfree existence can’t help their dislike of the commotion that kids bring, and consequently kids themselves beCAUSE of the way kids inherently are.

Black or other minority adults don’t require the same energy expenditures for the relationship as do children.

Again, I have to go back to the pet analogy, they’re not like adults, and like pets, they’re not for everyone. And for many people they are disliked because of their being “unformed” so to speak, or rather the actions they take because of their immature state.

So I guess my answer would have to, (partially) that there shouldn’t be sweeping blanket statements about “kids”. That it isn’t really fair to paint all kids with the same brush, there are many I’m sure who are good, quiet well-behaved kids.

The trouble is, that like my comment about Walmart, the reality as is evidenced when one is out and about, by the vast amount of brattiness, it does seem that “kids are brats”.

Perhaps this is, again, a factor of too many parents not parenting appropriately, hence too many parents that shouldn’t have BEEN parents? Kind of a “round robin” eh?

103

sheesh, I should have just waited for CCL to come in, she nailed it MUCH better than I did.

PWT (posting while tired). lol

104

FTR the obvious disregard for human life comment was not directed at people who don’t like children. I said it in anger at j_kat_351’s stupid post before it. It was directed at her/him.
I think everything has been said that needs to be said in this thread.

105

Man, it’s funny watching all of you parents and prospective parents get all defensive about this. You’ve convinced yourselves that raising kids is some sort of holy mission, and by Jeebus, you’re gonna raise kids.

The way I see it, raising kids is a hobby, same as raising parakeets or orchids, but more expensive. There’s no world demand for babies; if the planet’s human reproductive rate was cut in half, we’d be immensely better off. The idea that having kids is somehow altruistic by nature is laughable.

You want to have kids, fine. You want to pass on your genetic material, go right ahead. You want to make huge sacrifices to see a little copy of yourselves cope with the world, feel free. But don’t go around pretending it’s some sort of noble endeavor. You did a little groin-bumping. It’s not much of an accomplishment.

I have a lot of respect for parents who do their best to produce good offspring. In the same way that I have respect for a potter who makes good pottery, or an excellent painter. If you’re going to do something, do it well, and whole heartedly; follow through on your commitment and make as much beauty as you can. Some people turn out excellent children, and I respect the work and love and commitment and sacrifice that that takes.

But almost anyone can slap some clay together, or throw paint onto a canvas, and most people can make babies. So freaking what. Nobody came to you and told you to have kids in the interest of national security. You chose to have kids, for whatever reasons, and that entails sacrifices and hard work. Do well, produce good kids, and that’s worthy of respect. But just being a parent doesn’t count for much. Hell, birds do that. Bees do it. Even monkeys in the trees do it. Don’t act like you’re bringing us the second coming of the Messiah, just because you managed to get sperm and egg to see eye to eye.

Meanwhile, a lot of people have looked at the brochure for kid-raising, assessed the good and bad points, and decided that for them, it’s the wrong hobby. Hell, I don’t think I’ll ever be doing needlepoint; is it really selfish of me not to gift the world with all the potential lace doilies I’ll never make? Will the planet weep for that latch hook rug that will now never see the light of day? I think not. I may, however, excel at something I enjoy, and bring some good to the world in that way. It’s my choice. And I’m the only one fit to judge whether or not it’s worth it to me to be a parent.

106

It’s actually somewhere inbetween.

107

Yes CCL, in one way you are absolutely correct. But having children (as I said in another thread on another board) teaches a person that they are NOT the centre of the universe. I believe that most parents find that when they have a child, their focus changes, and for the first time in their lives ANOTHER being’s wellbeing takes priority. I remember being astounded at the sudden realisation that this little person’s life was more important than my own…it was not a negative, rather a joyous feeling.

And I wonder whether CF people will ever get to feel that. Certainly they can be ‘unselfish’ in their general lives…some of the most generous and caring people I have met have never had children (as a choice). And I’m not saying that parents don’t behave selfishlessly: geez, we can all tell stories about shitty selfish mums and dads. But I think that when a new baby comes into the world, there is a shift in the thinking/behaviours of most parents that can only be described as ‘selflessness’.

Oh, and I’ve never heard the term ‘yardmonkey’ before. What does it mean?? Can someone enlighten me so that I have a new word to call my brats? :smiley:

108

That happened to me when I got married.

Haj

109

I appreciate what you are saying Haj, but I still think there is a qualitative difference between the ego-shift that occurs when you get married and when you have a child. I’d be interested to hear the opinions of other parents in this regard.

In my opinion, it’s not to do with ‘love’, rather the feeling of absolute certainty that you will always put this other person’s needs before your own. Although I adored my husband and he was the centre of my life, I really cannot say equivocally that I would have sacrificed my own life for his. I CAN say that about my children.

Now, maybe this is a flaw in my person, but I get the distinct feeling from other parents that they feel much the same. I suggest that it has some sort of biological base…survival of the species and all of that. Whatever the reason, the outcome is the same.

110

I don’t know about the rest of you, but the fact that I wasn’t the center of the universe started dawning on me around the age of five. Putting those I love ahead of myself, on a consistent basis, took a bit longer, but it happened long before I left high school.

Saying (or implying) that you have to be a parent to experience selfless, self-sacrificing love on a daily basis is woefully misinformed.

111

I kind of understand what you mean. I got a glimpse of it with my niece and nephew. They are beautiful little kidlets and I love them. I just can’t take them for more than a couple of hours.

Haj

112

Heh. I can’t take my own rotters for more than that either!! I’d lay down my life for them, but it doesn’t mean I enjoy their company all that much. :smiley:

Anyway…I’m still waiting on a translation of ‘yardmonkey’.

113

Yardmonkey: n. one who behave like a monkey, chimp, ape, or other nonhuman primate and should be kept in the yard rather than the house. see also: yard-ape

114

Nah…that doesn’t describe my kids at all. Monkeys, chimps and apes are MUCH better behaved than my lot.

:smiley:

115

Yardmonkey is, of course, not to be confused with “porchmonkey” of SNL fame.

116

Que?

117

Sure. Sub-human. Below human. “Regarded as not being fully human”. I guess I was pulling too silly a play on words… I just think of my brother’s infant daughter, born just a couple months ago. To me she resembled a protoplasmic hunk of groping, mindless matter that drooled a lot and made lots of stinky, but will someday become a human. Someday. But not yet.

No. Why is this a pertinent point? Do I need to stab myself in the eye to know that it will hurt me?

(Note: The key word is “me”. If makin’ babies hasn’t hurt YOU, congrats. Me? I’m the last person on the planet that should have children. Now, a CLONE would be nice, as long as it was slightly larger than 1/8 my size.)

118

Me too. Then I got a cat. Now I am number three. :frowning:

Jeese, if I had kids I might drop out of the top five, and that would suck.

119

What is this “world overpopulation” nonsense?

There is no world overpopulation. There is only overpopulation in certain areas of the world.

There certainly is no problem here in the USA.

120

This thread is challenging highly personal preferences which seems like a flaw waiting to happen. Lobsang – it’s like you don’t know when to quit. While I don’t walk around referring to kids as “yard apes,” I don’t like children. So my question is, why, exactly, do you give a fuck what I think about kids? There are about a million reasons why I do not desire children and there are only two people in this world that need to know any of those reasons.

Why don’t you submit a list of favorite foods and music and then you can beat us over the head with why we should all agree with you (to some degree, of course – I have noticed that you are willing to allow some of us to only partially agree with you).