[QUOTE=Jodi]
I can’t tell if you’re being disingenuous or not. THEY prevent other people from working for the producers. They make everyone who wants to work in that field belong to the union – membership is compulsory. And any union member who crosses picket lines may be reported and subject to unspecified reprecussions:
The only choice for dissenting union members is to go “fi-core” and even that may lead to blacklisting. This is what a striking guild member said about soap opera writers who went “fi-core”: “[T]hey’ve got people scabbing in there. We don’t know who. They shield their identity to protect them from repercussions from the guild.” Cite.
Any non-union member crossing the picket lines risks never being allowed to join the union. So long as the union contracts require the producers to hire union writers only, that means, literally, “you’ll never work in this town again.”
I’m making no comment on the justice of these reprecussions, but I don’t think the seriousness of them is in any doubt.
I already answered this: I decide if I’m going to stay and if I feel I can’t or shouldn’t, I leave. There are other jobs and there are other towns. That’s life for the vast majority of people who don’t belong to unions.
[/QUOTE]
Well, most of the people working in entertainment do belong to unions. And they believe in solidarity.
Perhaps you should start a thread on Why Unions Suck…
That’s weird…I tried it again and got the registration screen, then once more and got right in. And I’ve certainly never registered. Here’s the Google cache.
Here’s the WGA President response, and he actually doesn’t even address the points that Ridley made, but says, “When I was a producer in the 1960s, I hired blacks!” Ridley makes charges about how the Guild stifles dissent, but Pierce ignores it, but he makes sure to get the scab and parasite name-calling in.
That was…odd…coming from him. Looks like he’s experienced some of what Ridley wrote about.
[/QUOTE]
“Odd” is one way of putting it. Mr. Maher has apparently described himself as a libertarian on occasion, and this may be a manifestation of that particular weirdness. Maybe he feels that corporations dictating paychecks is somehow less coercive than union negotiation. He’d need to fill in a few more blanks before I buy his argument that union solidarity is in any way analogous to Iraq critics being called unpatriotic.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
“Odd” is one way of putting it. Mr. Maher has apparently described himself as a libertarian on occasion, and this may be a manifestation of that particular weirdness. Maybe he feels that corporations dictating paychecks is somehow less coercive than union negotiation. He’d need to fill in a few more blanks before I buy his argument that union solidarity is in any way analogous to Iraq critics being called unpatriotic.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that might be true. In the rest of his speech he talked about how he supports unions and the writers in general, however.
I must admit I’m a little flummoxed as to why the “regulars” here have ignored this thread…
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
Well, most of the people working in entertainment do belong to unions. And they believe in solidarity.
[/quote]
I’m not speaking from the POV of anyone working in entertainment in any meaningful way. Are you? And I don’t pretend to declare what unknown amorphous others believe.
If I thought they universally did and if I cared enough about the subject, I would. As it is, I think I’ll just contribute to this thread as I see fit.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
“Odd” is one way of putting it. Mr. Maher has apparently described himself as a libertarian on occasion, and this may be a manifestation of that particular weirdness. Maybe he feels that corporations dictating paychecks is somehow less coercive than union negotiation. He’d need to fill in a few more blanks before I buy his argument that union solidarity is in any way analogous to Iraq critics being called unpatriotic.
[/quote]
But I didn’t read his comment as being about “union solidarity” at all. Bridget Burke used the same buzzword, and I guess I’m not sure what you guys mean by it. I read Bill Maher as objecting to the stifling of dissent: If you are a member critical of WGA’s actions, there is an expectation you stifle your opinion and remain silent so that the guild can support the illusion of a united front. I don’t consider that “solidarity,” so I didn’t hear Maher being critical of “solidarity.” So is that what is meant by “solidarity”? And if so why is that a good thing?
[QUOTE=Jodi]
But I didn’t read his comment as being about “union solidarity” at all. Bridget Burke used the same buzzword, and I guess I’m not sure what you guys mean by it. I read Bill Maher as objecting to the stifling of dissent: If you are a member critical of WGA’s actions, there is an expectation you stifle your opinion and remain silent so that the guild can support the illusion of a united front. I don’t consider that “solidarity,” so I didn’t hear Maher being critical of “solidarity.” So is that what is meant by “solidarity”? And if so why is that a good thing?
[/QUOTE]
As I said, Maher would have to explain himself a bit more clearly in that regard. He doesn’t appear to be objecting to dissent being stifled among Writers’ Guild members. He’s complaining that his-- Bill Maher’s-- criticisms of the strike are being… something; he isn’t really clear what’s being done, is he?
Is Bill Maher a member of the WGA? He refers to the writers as “they,” and says: “So we’re not wrong to criticize it.” Who’s “we?”
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
As I said, Maher would have to explain himself a bit more clearly in that regard. He doesn’t appear to be objecting to dissent being stifled among Writers’ Guild members. He’s complaining that his-- Bill Maher’s-- criticisms of the strike are being… something; he isn’t really clear what’s being done, is he?
Is Bill Maher a member of the WGA? He refers to the writers as “they,” and says: “So we’re not wrong to criticize it.” Who’s “we?”
[/QUOTE]
Bill Maher is a member of the WGA. The “they” he was referring to was the leadership of the WGA, not the WGA in toto.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Bill Maher is a member of the WGA. The “they” he was referring to was the leadership of the WGA, not the WGA in toto.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, that makes a bit more sense to me then. From the way the quote was transcribed, I thought he was comparing external criticism of the strike to criticism of the Iraq war.
I’m still fuzzy on the analogy though. If the WGA leadership is the administration and the writers are the troops, then Maher is a soldier speaking out against the administration during the war, right? Who in this analogy represents the liberal war critics that were accused of not supporting the troops? I don’t recall the troops being accused of not supporting the troops. And Maher is a troop.
Well, good analogies are the life blood of good writing, anyway. The strike manifests itself in many ways, don’t it?
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
Okay, that makes a bit more sense to me then. From the way the quote was transcribed, I thought he was comparing external criticism of the strike to criticism of the Iraq war.
I’m still fuzzy on the analogy though. If the WGA leadership is the administration and the writers are the troops, then Maher is a soldier speaking out against the administration during the war, right? Who in this analogy represents the liberal war critics that were accused of not supporting the troops? I don’t recall the troops being accused of not supporting the troops. And Maher is a troop.
[/quote]
I think you’re stretching the analogy too far. Or maybe just reading it the wriong way. It’s more like the WGA is “America” in this analogy, the leadership is the “government” and dissenting members are the “citizens.”
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I think you’re stretching the analogy too far. Or maybe just reading it the wriong way. It’s more like the WGA is “America” in this analogy, the leadership is the “government” and dissenting members are the “citizens.”
[/QUOTE]
Then who are the troops?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Also the members, I guess. It’s not a perfect analogy.
[/QUOTE] Brings to mind an old Peanuts weekly strip. Linus is saying to Lucy:
"Charlie Brown says that brothers and sisters can learn to get along…
"He says that they can get along the same way that adults get along…
"And adults can learn to get along the same way that nations get along…
Justin_Bailey, what do you do for a living? Do you support yourself? Got a family? Support them?
Stop it. Cold. Tomorrow morning, stop working for 10 weeks. Don’t make a move, don’t earn a dime. Whatever it is that you do, just hold off for 10 weeks.
Then prance in here and whine about a working woman’s efforts to be paid reasonably by the bloodsucking vampires that run the film industry.
Elenfair didn’t deserve a Pitting for standing up for herself, IMHO.
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] Justin_Bailey, what do you do for a living? Do you support yourself? Got a family? Support them?
Stop it. Cold. Tomorrow morning, stop working for 10 weeks. Don’t make a move, don’t earn a dime. Whatever it is that you do, just hold off for 10 weeks.
Then prance in here and whine about a working woman’s efforts to be paid reasonably by the bloodsucking vampires that run the film industry.
Elenfair didn’t deserve a Pitting for standing up for herself, IMHO.
[/QUOTE]
I am tired of this. THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME.
This isn’t even about Elenfair. Not once did I single her (or any other writer) out for scorn and ridicule. Not once did I make fun of her for not getting a paycheck from her TV writing (but as Elenfair said, she has other ways to make money, just not as much). I personally wish her the best of luck.
My problem is (and it always has been) with the Writer’s Guild. I believe this strike is misguided. I don’t believe a good portion of the propaganda they spew to the media. I think their flat out refusal to even recognize that this will piss off the viewing audience is stupid. I think their “closed shop” policies are the reason why more people don’t try to become writers.
I did not realize I was not allowed to disagree with a publicly striking union’s very public strike.
And yet, this thread has produced multiple of other people that disagree with the strike. And what do you know, they’re from writers. My opinions are not meant to harm anyone, they are disagreements with a strike I think is dumb.
If all unions disappeared tomorrow, I’d be a happy camper.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
I did not realize I was not allowed to disagree with a publicly striking union’s very public strike.
[/QUOTE]
According to what John Ridley and Bill Maher have reported, you’re not.
Anyway, every single write-up I’ve seen about the DGA striking a deal yesterday makes it sound like the directors threw the writers under the bus. I haven’t seen all reports, obviously, but my understanding is that the WGA is pretty upset.
Brings to mind an old Peanuts weekly strip. Linus is saying to Lucy: