Looks like Trump has his casus belli to fire Rosenstein. What happens to now?

Err, “What happens now”(mods feel free to correct).

This is just a disaster. Just when things were going bad for Trump. Rosenstein allegedly discussed secretly recording Trump and invoking the 25th. Deep State conpiracy confirmed. Everything Trump needs to wreak havoc on Russia investigation. What happens now?

How does this give him license to wreak (more) havoc on the Russia investigation?

If Trump fires Rosenstein, that puts Noel Francisco in charge. I’m not sure there’s any reason to believe he is more of a Trump loyalist.

Not wreak havoc on the investigation itself, but on the perceived objectivity and veracity of its conclusions. This is ultimately gonna be played out in court of public opinion and this will give Trump defense exhibit A.

It’s just the New York Times. FAKE NEWS!!

I agree with OP. This is another block to discredit the Russia Investigation. Not really sure how, but that’s never mattered.

Why? How does it affect the perceived objectivity and veracity of its conclusions?

Isn’t it interesting how 25th Amendment remedies have been discussed for nearly the entire duration of Trump’s occupation of the Oval Office, but when it is learned that Rosenstein (a Trump appointee, remember) expressed concern, that’s grounds to be fired?

I’ve no doubt the Devin Nunes/Jim Jordan/Mark Meadows/Matt Goetz crowd will try to plug this narrative into the Deep State conspiracists’ playbook. But as Richard Parker points out, so what? Even if Trump fires Rosenstein, Noel Francisco is probably not willing to become Trump’s consigliere after an illustrious legal career.

Trump is stuck with Francisco until at least past the mid-terms because the Senate is preoccupied with trying to push through the disgusting Kavanaugh Supreme Court nomination – and that’s assuming Republicans can hang onto the Senate. There will be no time to confirm a new AG, unless, oh, Betsy DeVos steps into the role. That would go well, no? The entire DOJ/FBI would come unstuck.

In any case, it’s too late. The work is pretty much done by Mueller and distributed strategically to ensure the investigation will go forward no matter what. Even if Trump succeeds in stopping a report from issuing from the Special Counsel, there are workarounds to bring the information to the public’s attention.

As for your concerns regarding public opinion, most of the public isn’t buying the Deep State bullshit and I see nothing in the Times story that will sway it in a substantial way. Frankly, I think it would be more concerning if those close to the Trump “presidency” weren’t considering 25th Amendment remedies.

I don’t think Mueller is going to have any problem convincing folks of his objectivity, unless those folks are already predisposed to think otherwise. Rosenstein isn’t involved in the day-to-day operation of the investigation. And let’s keep in mind that Trump’s biggest concern isn’t the whole “collusion” crap, but with the many opportunities there will be for criminal charges at the state and federal level once Cohen, Manafort et al start singing like canaries. Things like tax fraud which can result in lots of jail time for Trump (and other people with that last name, too).

I wonder if this was part of the memos going to be released by Trump. But then when he didn’t, someone must have leaked this.

If Trump fires Rosenstein, tens of thousands of people will be in the streets within hours. I’ll be one of them. I’m signed up with MoveOn to get literal marching orders if it goes down.

Not that it will make a damned bit of difference, of course, but it will be something anyway.

Gosh. I wonder who. :wink:

If affects the perceived objectivity because Rosenstein started the special investigation, appointed Mueller, and Rosenstein is overseeing that investigation. Now, we learn that around that time, he was trying to push out Trump via the 25th Amendment. Clearly, he has an axe to grind against Trump and wants him removed one way or the other. That’s the angle I’d be pushing based on this reporting if I’m on team Trump.

I have no idea how it affects the veracity of its conclusions (yet - nobody does) and I don’t care. I’m going to conflate the two and most people can’t separate them apart.

I’m not sure why anyone assumes that Rosenstein, a 27-year veteran of the FBI, could only consider the 25th Amendment for a devious purpose. In a contest of credibility between the Trump operation and Rosenstein, I give far more weight to Rosenstein.

“Unfit” doesn’t have to mean off his rocker. It could mean that Rosenstein has credible reasons to believe Trump is compromised and subject to foreign blackmail/interference. Given what we’ve learned over the past nearly 2 years, I think he is right – and I view him as far more hero than villain.

Ironically, Rosenstein may be lying more today than he was back then about his true thoughts on the matter.

It’s both. Which makes trump even more dangerous.

So the theory is that Rosenstein is today telling lies and McCabe is telling the truth?

Alternatively, the theory might be that reading for context matters.

Yeah, you read my mind. But Rosenstein isn’t exactly in a position to state the obvious…

  1. There will be some violent act that Deep State will be held responsible for.
  2. The Chief Executive will assume Emergency Powers. A GOP controlled congress will give him the power.
  3. Purges will begin. LE will be given wider powers.

This was how it worked in 1933 in Germany.

Remember that op-ed from last week, about the “adults in the room” who were saving us all from Donald’s instability? It had this little tidbit:

Apparently, lots of people have been talking about the 25th, including Donald’s cabinet members. All this pearl-clutching about Rosenstein is just pretense.

Rosenstein and Session will probably both be fired. It won’t save Donald, but he’s too dumb to know it. The only question is if he will listen to McConnell and wait until after midterms.

Well said. And I would only add that it’s amusing to learn that the “failing New York Times” is suddenly the most reliable source of information on the planet.

Firing both might br a bit too much.

Maybe the news today was leaked by Sessions so he can keep his job.