Lost 3.19: "The Brig"

[Rubystreak]

@Frylock

My feelings exactly. If its really true that the other Others could only respect Locke if he were willing to murder the person who is the source of his troubles, then it seems to me there’s no moral ambiguity about them at all. (This is despite the fact that the writers have said that we are not supposed to be able to easily categorize them morally speaking.)

Right, I feel like Ben was being so blatantly evil in this ep. There is no way to put someone in the situation Locke was put in without being a completely cruel dick, largely due to the public nature of it all. Unless the Others are monstrous, they couldn’t possibly be rooting for Ben in that scenario. Locke could have turned it around on him so easily, it seems. I really wish he had.

[delphica]

@Rubystreak

If anything would have undermined Ben’s authority and made everyone watching with doubts about Ben cheer, it would have been something like that. As it is, Locke looks like an easily manipulated wimp. That’s unlikely to change when he comes in with Cooper’s body next week; that’ll just indicate that he was a successfully manipulated wimp.

I completely agree, although that is probably too boring for this show. In the context of the show, I mean, not boring in real life. Decency is not boring.

I am wondering if perhaps Locke is going to return to the Others with the body, dump it in front of Ben, and then take off on his own as he told Sawyer. This could be bad news for Ben, as it would both prove that John is indeed some Extra Special Person (in the eyes of the Others) AND that John is not on Ben’s side.

[tanstaafl]

@Trion

So, five seasons.

Darn, and I was so looking forward to the Zombie Season…

[Zakalwe]

@TMFT

COOPER: Island? OK. I’m driving down I10 through Tallahassee when bam, somebody slams into the back of my car. I go right into the divider at seventy miles an hour …

Emphasis added.

Which bugged the shit out of me. There is no “divider” on I-10 in Tallahassee, just grassy median (although as of January 2007 the whole damn thing being widened so, yeah now there’s all kind of stuff out there). How hard is it to say “guardrail” instead?

The writers have obviously got ties here. Why not get it right?

[CJJ]

@Rubystreak

Right, I feel like Ben was being so blatantly evil in this ep. There is no way to put someone in the situation Locke was put in without being a completely cruel dick, largely due to the public nature of it all. Unless the Others are monstrous, they couldn’t possibly be rooting for Ben in that scenario. Locke could have turned it around on him so easily, it seems. I really wish he had.

Locke is not the kind of person to “turn it around” on Ben. He still sees Ben as the one with all the answers, and is not aware that Ben is setting him up to fail. Yes, Ben is a completely cruel dick, what abaout the show has led you to believe otherwise?

As for Cooper being put to death, even Locke knew “he deserved it”, given his past actions. Face it: Locke wanted Cooper dead, but he didn’t have the strength to do it himself.

[CJJ]

@Sage Rat

I don’t get the feeling that there’s an uprising within the Others, in particular. I think that they are all or mostly all there because Ben has successfully conned them into staying and doing as he says. They probably all hate Ben and don’t want to help him, but they’re each afraid of all the other Others who might do what Ben asks at any given time.

This is probably closer to the truth; it may be better to say that there is a sentiment among the Others that they don’t like what Ben is doing, and they are ripe to follow a challenger. Alpert said as much when he secretly handed the file to Locke.

@Rubysteak

Forgive me if these are really dumb questions, but I read the whole thread and still am not sure. Why did Ben and Alpert want Cooper dead so badly? If they knew Locke couldn’t do it, why did they want Sawyer to do it (which they clearly did, indicated by the file Alpert gave Locke)? If they just wanted to undermine Locke in the eyes of the Others, having him simply fail to perform would have been enough, and the Sawyer bit would have been unnecessary. I’m confused.

Ben and Alpert are not working together; Alpert is undermining Ben’s plan by going to Locke with the file. He wants the group to take a new direction, and is hoping Locke can emerge as a potent challenger to Ben’s iron rule.

Ben is the one who decided Locke must kill Cooper to get in the club, but he knew Locke was incapable of this, so it was a test he knew Locke would fail, and fail publically. Alpert thought he could still salvage a “win” for Locke by giving him the Sawyer option; given Ben’s hold on the group, I don’t think (once Ben defined the challenge) anything other than Locke securing the death of Cooper would have satisfied those Others ready to follow a new leader.

[John_Mace]

@delphica

I am wondering if perhaps Locke is going to return to the Others with the body, dump it in front of Ben, and then take off on his own as he told Sawyer. This could be bad news for Ben, as it would both prove that John is indeed some Extra Special Person (in the eyes of the Others) AND that John is not on Ben’s side.

I think the previews showed us what he does…

… drops the body in front of Ben and says something like: OK, now I want some answers.

Nothing in that spoiler that I didn’t get from the previews, btw.

[Frylock]

@CJJ*

Face it: Locke wanted Cooper dead,

Well, obviously, since he had him killed.

My disappointment is twofold. For one thing, I’m disappointed that the character of Locke has turned out to be murderous. For another, I’m disappointed that the Others have been made so clearly and unambiguously eeeeevil despite implicit promises in the show and explicit promises outside the show that this would not be the case.

-FrL-

[Monstre]

@SuperNelson

Almost like debating whether it’s more reasonable to find an African or Asian elephant in your pajamas.

All I found was the trunk.
But I don’t think it’s African or Asian…

@Zakalwe

Which bugged the shit out of me. There is no “divider” on I-10 in Tallahassee, just grassy median (although as of January 2007 the whole damn thing being widened so, yeah now there’s all kind of stuff out there). How hard is it to say “guardrail” instead?

Ooh, good catch. Nope – no “divider”, unless you count all the construction going on now. (But it’s still the end of 2004 or near the start of 2005 in the Lost universe).

[Merijeek]

@Frylock

Well, obviously, since he had him killed.

My disappointment is twofold. For one thing, I’m disappointed that the character of Locke has turned out to be murderous. For another, I’m disappointed that the Others have been made so clearly and unambiguously eeeeevil despite implicit promises in the show and explicit promises outside the show that this would not be the case.

I don’t see killing someone who has earned it many, many times as “evil”. As for the rest, Ben apparently sets the rules, and part of being in the Immortal Commune (or whatever) is following those rules. If Ben decides that getting in involves killing someone, that’s how you get in.

Do you really think that Cindy or the little kids killed someone to get into the group? Ben made killing Cooper a requirement for Locke because he knew Locke wouldn’t be able to do it. The ONLY reason cooper died was because Batmanuel gave Locke Sawyer’s file. If that hadn’t happened, there was no way Locke could have had him killed.

@Monstre

Ooh, good catch. Nope – no “divider”, unless you count all the construction going on now. (But it’s still the end of 2004 or near the start of 2005 in the Lost universe).

Obviously The Others put one down just so they could run him into it. They can manage all this stuff and they can’t arrange a pothole repair on a particular day?
-Joe

[Zakalwe]

@Merijeek

Obviously The Others put one down just so they could run him into it. They can manage all this stuff and they can’t arrange a pothole repair on a particular day?

Somebody doing pothole repair around here is less believable than the smoke monster and the magic box.

[Monstre]

@Zakalwe

Somebody doing pothole repair around here is less believable than the smoke monster and the magic box.

Seriously. If the Others are really up to those tricks, can somebody have them do something about the stormwater drainage, too?