[QUOTE=Gfactor]
I don’t think Cooper actually “is” the smoke monster, but there is something on the island that displays convincing images from the past to those who are receptive (Jack’s father, Dave, Kate’s horse, Yemi).
[/QUOTE]
I submit as evidence the fact that smoke monster is amorphous and has some imaging facility. Perhaps it can take form and project specific appearance. Thin, yes, but the alternative is some as yet revealed facility of the island. With only a few episodes yet, how are they going to cram that in
which is called “the man behind the curtain”… will this be Ben’s backstory and the history of the Dharma initiative on The Island?
[/QUOTE]
The press releases have confirmed that “The Man Behind the Curtain” is going to be a Ben episode. Whether the man behind the curtain refers to him or Jacob, however, is still up in the air.
[QUOTE=Nature’s Call]
With only a few episodes yet, how are they going to cram that in
[/QUOTE]
I know–it’s not like they’ve been renewed for a new season.
[QUOTE=rainy]
I’ve been a Sawyer fan from the begining. But couple this fantastic performance with that awesome scene last season(?) where Sawyer tells Jack about meeting Jack’s Dad in the bar, and I’d be willing to risk saying Holloway is one of, if not the best actor on the show.
[/QUOTE]
It was Exodus, Part 1, back towards the end of season 1. Just before Jack set off into the jungle to hunt for dynamite, and Sawyer was getting ready to depart on the raft. And I agree – that was a very fine moment of acting in this show. I agree that Holloway’s acting is quite good in this show.
I don’t think they’ll be telling us the secret of the smoke monster this season. I think that’s one mystery that’s going to stay a mystery until close to the very end of however long the show lasts.
[QUOTE=Monstre]
I don’t think they’ll be telling us the secret of the smoke monster this season. I think that’s one mystery that’s going to stay a mystery until close to the very end of however long the show lasts.
[/QUOTE]
Speaking of however long the show lasts, does anyone know what’s going on with that? I know the producers were fighting with ABC asking for a definite “stop” time, so they could wrap up the series cleanly instead of dragging it out forever. Anything ever come of that?
[QUOTE=Gfactor]
Don’t have a transcript available. As I recall it, Ben denied bringing Cooper there, and said Locke should know why he was there because he brought him there. I’m having trouble remembering whether there was a point where Ben said he didn’t know *why * Cooper was there, but he’s not taking any responsibility or credit for bringing him to the island.
[/quote]
Ben is playing on Locke’s already mystic interpretation of island events. He assumes that holds more power over Locke by manipulating him, keeping parts of the game in the dark while he pushes Locke into a confrontation he is not prepared for. This leads me to think that Locke is not fully aware of how respected he really is among the Others; he has a vague sense of his specialness, but has failed in following thru on it before, so he still has doubts. Ben, on the other hand, sees him as a clear danger, and so prefers to keep him off balance with tales of “magic boxes” and “you brought him here”.
Again, Ben is manipulating Locke, trying to distract him. The Others clearly have far-reaching resources,; by casting these in mystical terms like “a magic box–where anything you wish can be in it”, Ben feeds into Locke’s mistaken interpretation of the Island (or is it really mistaken? Perhaps Ben does not realize just how tuned in Locke is, i.e. he’s underestimating his potential).
Don’t have a transcript available. As I recall it, Ben denied bringing Cooper there, and said Locke should know why he was there because he brought him there. I’m having trouble remembering whether there was a point where Ben said he didn’t know *why * Cooper was there, but he’s not taking any responsibility or credit for bringing him to the island.
Yeah, the magic box thing was a bit far-fetched, even for this show. But what was it a metaphor for? Is the box broken now that the Others can’t get to the mainland (because it’s really just a team of operatives) or is it something more psychological or supernatural?
If it was the latter, then why would Ben bring it up when he was showing Cooper to Locke? “We’ve got a (metaphorical) magic box for doing stuff like this, but we grabbed this one the old fashioned way, just for kicks.”
[/QUOTE]
Because Locke very much operates on a belief in ‘magic’ and ‘specialness’. Remember what it was that led him to the communications station?
What would Locke rather hear?
“We sent Task Force Ethan/Batmanuel to kidnap and dad and bring him here once we realized we had a use for you - Ethan is wicked awesome at crashing vehicles into stuff”
or
“Our cult has a magic box that can give you whatever you want. Have a peek inside.”
-Joe
ETA: God dammit, CJJ*, unless you’re my long lost (more verbose) twin, STOP THAT.
[QUOTE=wasson]
Speaking of however long the show lasts, does anyone know what’s going on with that? I know the producers were fighting with ABC asking for a definite “stop” time, so they could wrap up the series cleanly instead of dragging it out forever. Anything ever come of that?
[/QUOTE]
They’re apparently still negotiating with ABC about it. I have heard both four and five seasons tossed about as their target length.
Of course, the running joke on the podcasts is that the seventh season will be the zombie season.
[QUOTE=Monstre]
It was Exodus, Part 1, back towards the end of season 1. Just before Jack set off into the jungle to hunt for dynamite, and Sawyer was getting ready to depart on the raft. And I agree – that was a very fine moment of acting in this show. I agree that Holloway’s acting is quite good in this show.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve been thinking about this week’s episode and have been reconsidering my opinion of Sawyer (and Holloway). I was thinking of that scene exactly, as well as the one where Michael tells him that he either wants to get off this island just for himself or that he is a hero. Sawyer does his little “I’m no hero” thing but you can see in his face that he wants very much to be (and turns out to be).
Include his reactions to Kate at various times, and that very lovely scene with Alex’s boyfriend, and I think I have underestimated the man.
I can’t figure out if Ben meant for Locke to steal the tape recorder or not. It would be very sloppy of him to let that happen by accident, and he seemed to let it play a bit too long when Locke approached his tent. OTOH, why would he want to blow Juliet’s cover? Anyone have some thoughts about that part? (Sorry if it was already discussed. These thread get pretty long and it’s sometimes hard to remember everything that’s in it.)
I don’t remember if anyone commented on this yet, but Naomi mentioned that the wreckage was found four miles deep off Bali. I think she said that it was viewed only by unmanned vehicles. So I assume that either the underwater footage was entirely faked by Dharma/The Others or (less likely) that they placed a fake plane wreck at that site.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
I can’t figure out if Ben meant for Locke to steal the tape recorder or not. It would be very sloppy of him to let that happen by accident, and he seemed to let it play a bit too long when Locke approached his tent. OTOH, why would he want to blow Juliet’s cover? Anyone have some thoughts about that part? (Sorry if it was already discussed. These thread get pretty long and it’s sometimes hard to remember everything that’s in it.)
[/QUOTE]
He would want to screw Juliet for the same reason he let Locke destroy the sub. It gets rid of a problem (Juliet who, remember, tried to have him killed) and keep his hands clean.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
I can’t figure out if Ben meant for Locke to steal the tape recorder or not. It would be very sloppy of him to let that happen by accident, and he seemed to let it play a bit too long when Locke approached his tent. OTOH, why would he want to blow Juliet’s cover? Anyone have some thoughts about that part?
[/QUOTE]
He put it into a drawer right in front of Locke after it was pretty clear that Locke heard part of the recording. I think:
He wants Locke to out Juliet because he hates Juliet as much as she hates him. Maybe he wants Jack to see that he’s getting conned (if he is).
OR
He didn’t anticipate Locke having contact with the Losties–which is pretty unlikely considering the most people believe Ben never expected him to kill Cooper and (presumably) planned to banish him.
OR
It’s part of a bigger conspiracy.
As it turns out, it looks like there’s going to be a Jack/Juliet vs. Losties reckoning on the trust issue anyway.
[QUOTE=Gfactor]
He put it into a drawer right in front of Locke after it was pretty clear that Locke heard part of the recording. I think:
He wants Locke to out Juliet because he hates Juliet as much as she hates him. Maybe he wants Jack to see that he’s getting conned (if he is).
OR
He didn’t anticipate Locke having contact with the Losties–which is pretty unlikely considering the most people believe Ben never expected him to kill Cooper and (presumably) planned to banish him.
OR
It’s part of a bigger conspiracy.
As it turns out, it looks like there’s going to be a Jack/Juliet vs. Losties reckoning on the trust issue anyway.
[/QUOTE]
I had initially thought the Ben did not anticipate Locke stealing the recorder, only because I think the writers would have included more details about the theft if it were important later that Locke was duped; I’m applying a bit of a storytelling “Occam’s razor” here.
But after reading the above I’m not so sure. If Ben really wanted to keep Juliet’s mole-status a secret, why would he be listening to the recording right after he ordered Zeke to summon Locke? Ben should prefer to listen at a time when he didn’t know Locke would be showing up any second. Also, if Ben senses a coup, he’d have to know Juliet would be opposing him, and we have to presume (given her screen time vs. the other Others) that she would be an important opponent. So Ben has a motive to eliminate her, and using the castaways to do his dirty work fits his style to a T.
I’m still with (2), but could also see (1). (3) is just a non-starter, and although I know Gfactor is joking, some of the posts around here make me wonder how deep some folks think the conspiracy goes…perhaps I’m in on it as well and just haven’t figured it out yet
[QUOTE=Gfactor]
Don’t have a transcript available. As I recall it, Ben denied bringing Cooper there, and said Locke should know why he was there because he brought him there. I’m having trouble remembering whether there was a point where Ben said he didn’t know *why * Cooper was there, but he’s not taking any responsibility or credit for bringing him to the island.
Yeah, the magic box thing was a bit far-fetched, even for this show. But what was it a metaphor for?
[/QUOTE]
I’ve said this before, but my theory is that the island works like the Shore Leave planet in Star Trek TOS. Some force on the island takes random thoughts and memories and creates real things from them. Locke was thinking about his father, so the Island created him.
[QUOTE=Fiver]
Don’t know about the slavery, but sailing vessels were in use for cargo into the 20th century.
People assume that once something gets invented, it’s instantly adopted everywhere, but steamships didn’t become standard for many decades after they were invented. For one, steam engines remained unreliable for a very long time; for another, only a few ports in the world had coaling stations, so steamships faced the same problem as hydrogen-cell-powered cars today: where would they tank up?
But after 1867 most sailing vessels were windjammers, which were long, narrow ships; the Black Rock clearly isn’t a windjammer.
[/QUOTE]
This is why I love this show so much - it so subtly manipulates our perceptions of what is normal that we’re debating what kind of sailing vessel is more realistic to find in the middle of the jungle. Almost like debating whether it’s more reasonable to find an African or Asian elephant in your pajamas.
[QUOTE=SuperNelson]
This is why I love this show so much - it so subtly manipulates our perceptions of what is normal that we’re debating what kind of sailing vessel is more realistic to find in the middle of the jungle. Almost like debating whether it’s more reasonable to find an African or Asian elephant in your pajamas.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gfactor]
Don’t have a transcript available. As I recall it, Ben denied bringing Cooper there, and said Locke should know why he was there because he brought him there. I’m having trouble remembering whether there was a point where Ben said he didn’t know *why * Cooper was there, but he’s not taking any responsibility or credit for bringing him to the island.
[/QUOTE]
And in reading that transcript, I see that I forgot Ben actually **told **Locke what was on the tape, so he probably did intend for him to steal it and tell the Beachies. This definitely **is **complicated.
