[QUOTE=Hampshire]
So how many days have past since Walt and Michael were set free and Naomi landed on the island?
You’d think that if Walt and Michael really made it off it would have been all over the news : “Survivors found from plane crash where all were presumed dead” and Naomi would have heard about it.
Or did they never make it home?
Or did they make it home but kept their promise to never tell anyone about the island?
[/quote]
It’s been about 25ish days since they left. Ben said something to Michael about how he’d never tell anyone what happened on the island, for fear of them knowing what he did to get off the island. I think this is pretty reasonable. Can you imagine Michael telling the story… “Well, we landed on an island and this group of natives kidnapped my son, so to get him back I killed an ex-cop and an innocent bystander, then handed the Others 4 people with whom I crashed to be let go from the island.”
I think it’s more likely the Others and Richard set him up with a good alibi and cover-up story or some such thing, and Michael is just keeping his mouth shut.
I didn’t see any of the Others with Richard as a Hostile, but I’d assume some people were. Ben said something like “I brought almost everyone to this island”, which means, f course, that there’s some people there he DIDN’T bring.
I was wondering about Ben’s statement that he was born on the island, which we now know isn’t true. But his mother died giving birth to him, so perhaps he meant that he (and his mother) was the first victim of the island dead-pregnant-women syndrome?
And when did Ben and the other Hostiles kill the Dharma Initiative people? (And by the way, the Dharma Initiative people came off as cultists, so perhaps that’s how the power behind it all got volunteers for the island. Now we know what the Scientologists are really up to.)
[QUOTE=vivalostwages]
“Mrs. Kwon…” ? Come on, Sawyer, you can come up with better names than that–but maybe when you’re in a better mood.
[/QUOTE]
The reason for using her last name was that Juliet had used it on the tape to Ben. By saying it, Sawyer shows that he knows that she went, and lets everyone else know too in case they don’t know her last name. It’s quite the jab.
Also, wow. I think I’m going to have to watch that episode again. There was just so much. Ben better not die this season, I need another back story from him.
In regards to the anti-aging thing: none of the NATIVES (or hostiles or whatever you want to call them) seem to age; I am pretty damn sure that “Cindy”, the supposed flight attendant that disappeared while the Tailies were climbing the cliff in “The Other 48 Days” was one of the greeters that was saying “namaste” at the beginning and if so it seems that she had inflitrated the Dharma group already by the time Ben had arrived with his Dad. Of course Ben and his dad and in fact the rest of the Dharma group would continue to age as they are not part of the group of "original inhabitants.
[QUOTE=Algernon]
Except it seems to be inconsistent. It certainly looked to me that Ben’s father aged.
Or maybe it was all that beer.
[/QUOTE]
I was wondering about this, and maybe it has something to do with aging within the dharma gates as not aging outside them. Ben apparently spent a lot of time waiting and planning until the hostiles got him to kill everybody.
[QUOTE=running piglet cheese]
Where were Jack and Juliet and did they abduct Naomi?
[/QUOTE]
No – Naomi was already amid the group that was discussing things when Jack and Juliet walked up. As for where they went? Who knows? Off plotting and planning somewhere, no doubt.
Oooh, good call. And Horace definitely didn’t look any older, but Ben’s father certainly did. And I still want to know whether Ben ever hooked up with Annie when he grew up, or if she got gassed too in the “purge”.
[QUOTE=Alma]
I was wondering about this, and maybe it has something to do with aging within the dharma gates as not aging outside them. Ben apparently spent a lot of time waiting and planning until the hostiles got him to kill everybody.
[/QUOTE]
Richard tells young Ben that he can join them but he has to be patient. It turns out he has to be patient for maybe 10 or 15 years!
It wasn’t clear to me that Ben killed all the Dharmanites himself. Maybe he just disabled the fence so the other Hostiles could enter the neighborhood and do the deed while he was out on the errand with his father.
[QUOTE=randwill]
I’m beginning to think that “Lost” is a grand episode of “Scooby-Do” with Vincent as Scooby.
[/QUOTE]
“And now Jacob, let’s find out who you really are!”
Everybody: “Old Man Withers!!!”
Speaking of Vincent – did you all see what the camera focused on when Locke went inside Jacob’s cabin and looked around? One shot was on the 4 jars of colored liquids on the window sill. But the shot before that was hard to make out – looked like a picture or photograph in a frame. Very dark shot, though. And it looked to me like it was a dog in the picture. Vincent?
Maybe Ben leads the Others now because he originally showed some sort of affinity with the island and its mysteries/powers. In their initial meeting, Richard asked him about having seen his dead mother.
And if Ben has (or had) some sort of mystic communion with the island (like Locke does), perhaps it has gone bad for some reason. And maybe his “connection”, along with his past – mother dying at 7 months pregnant in early labor – is somehow causing the “pregnant women dying” effect. Could also be why he developed a cancerous tumor. The island is trying to reject him, but he’s too powerful right now. And he sees Locke as a threat, because Locke has a more pure affinity/connection with all things island right now? And the island would prefer to replace the Ben connection with a Locke connection?
rewind
Nope – there’s a little bit of a resemblance from one angle, but from the others, different facial shape. Doesn’t look like the same actress to me.
[QUOTE=randwill]
It wasn’t clear to me that Ben killed all the Dharmanites himself. Maybe he just disabled the fence so the other Hostiles could enter the neighborhood and do the deed while he was out on the errand with his father.
[/QUOTE]
That’s the impression I got, too. That Richard and the Hostilites gassed the Dharma compound while he was out gassing his father. (And he gave them access to infiltrate the place).
Of course, in all that time, did the Hostiles never figure out the lean-a-tree-against-a-post-in-the-sonic-fence trick?
re Annie (Ben’s girl-friend): I got the feeling she was gassed with the other Dharmies & that Ben still kept the carving she made as a memento, the sentimental fool.
Could be the reason Ben is so interested in pregnancy issues is because of his mother’s death in childbirth.
The original Islanders seemed like genocidal mass murderers - gassing their victims dumping their bodies in a ditch. Of course, the Nazis thought they themselves were good guys too.
How will Ben and his group manage to keep Naomi’s friends on the boat from looking for her, I wonder?
Of course, in all that time, did the Hostiles never figure out the lean-a-tree-against-a-post-in-the-sonic-fence trick?
[/QUOTE]
They must have figured out a way to get past it some of the time. There was the battle during the volcano demonstration at the school. The argument that Ben witnessed later on didn’t seem to explain how they got in, but I couldn’t make out all that was said. Did they follow Roger Work Man and crew back through the fence?
Ben is aging because his connection to the Island is imperfect. A pale Shadow of Locke’s. Locke, Rose, and Jin heal instantly, while Ben heals barely at all until Locke is in close proximity. Locke has faced the smoke beast without fear, which is something the Other’s can’t do. Ben is aging, while the Hostiles are static.
OTOH, Ben did see his mother, and Richard’s reaction to that implies to me that this was a noteworthy event. He also has some connection to Jacob, he’s at the least aware of Jacob’s presence in the cabin. My guess is that Ben rose to lead the Hostiles based on his closer connection to the island. But it wasn’t close enough. His own cancer, the inability to give birth, his aging, the smoke monster, Jacob’s silence, it was all starting to fall apart. The Locke showed up, and seemed to be the Island’s Messiah. Jacob *talked *to him. Ben can’t allow that.
[QUOTE=randwill]
It wasn’t clear to me that Ben killed all the Dharmanites himself. Maybe he just disabled the fence so the other Hostiles could enter the neighborhood and do the deed while he was out on the errand with his father.
[/QUOTE]
That makes sense. Kind of like Locke and his father, I think.
[QUOTE=Monstre]
Well, obviously Ben’s dad (and later Ben, also a “Work Man”) knew about some of the stations – sounds like they made supply runs to the Flame frequently. But I wonder if they knew about the Swan? Because Kelvin was in there, and I wonder how much Kelvin knew about what was going on “outside”, in Dharma Central? Sounds like they were cooped up in the Swan without much outside contact, because Kelvin lasted a good while down there, after the Hostiles purged the Dharmites. He was definitely down there until the day the Losties’ plane crashed – when he died – and Desmond was in there with him for his last 3 years.
[/QUOTE]
I meant because Kelvin was wearing the special Dharma-issue coveralls in the Swan. He must have been part of Horace’s group of recruits.
Incidentally, it seemed like Horace’s group was a lot less selective about who they brought onto the island. Ben’s dad was pretty much just as aimless guy who had no better options. Perhaps Kelvin was recruited as a PTSD case, lost and without a direction when he was pulled from active service.
It seems that Ben and Richard had a more elaborate plan as far as recruiting new members and got people with specialized skills and made a greater effort to manage their expectations.
Oooh, good call. And Horace definitely didn’t look any older, but Ben’s father certainly did.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm…you know Horace looking the same didn’t bother me, because I thought only 8-10 years might have passed – enough that Ben needed to be adult Ben, but Horace who might have gone from what mid 30s to mid 40s wouldn’t really have changed in appearance. But Ben’s Dad looked like 30-40 years had passed. Dammit!
[QUOTE=Monstre]
“And now Jacob, let’s find out who you really are!”
Everybody: “Old Man Withers!!!”
Speaking of Vincent – did you all see what the camera focused on when Locke went inside Jacob’s cabin and looked around? One shot was on the 4 jars of colored liquids on the window sill. But the shot before that was hard to make out – looked like a picture or photograph in a frame. Very dark shot, though. And it looked to me like it was a dog in the picture. Vincent?
[/QUOTE]
A man after my own heart. I didn’t see the picture but I wondered about those colored liquids.
[QUOTE=Monstre]
Maybe Ben leads the Others now because he originally showed some sort of affinity with the island and its mysteries/powers. In their initial meeting, Richard asked him about having seen his dead mother.
And if Ben has (or had) some sort of mystic communion with the island (like Locke does), perhaps it has gone bad for some reason. And maybe his “connection”, along with his past – mother dying at 7 months pregnant in early labor – is somehow causing the “pregnant women dying” effect. Could also be why he developed a cancerous tumor. The island is trying to reject him, but he’s too powerful right now. And he sees Locke as a threat, because Locke has a more pure affinity/connection with all things island right now? And the island would prefer to replace the Ben connection with a Locke connection?
…
[/QUOTE]
Yes, this is what I was thinking but wasn’t able to express. Richard seemed very impressed that Ben saw his mother.
Something I have to wonder about, if there aren’t many of the original Hostiles left then what happened to them since they don’t seem to die of old age?
One more thing, who has seen dead people so far? Is there a common theme. We know that Jack and Locke and Hurley were “important” to the Others. Ben’s seeing his mother seems to make him important and Locke’s hearing Jacob was obviously important too.
I feel like they are drawing a link between potentially psychic abilities as especially valued on the island. I wonder how the Others will react if they find out that Desmond can see the future, I think that will make him their new favorite target.
[QUOTE=rainy]
Hmmm…you know Horace looking the same didn’t bother me, because I thought only 8-10 years might have passed – enough that Ben needed to be adult Ben, but Horace who might have gone from what mid 30s to mid 40s wouldn’t really have changed in appearance. But Ben’s Dad looked like 30-40 years had passed. Dammit!
[/QUOTE]
Ben’s dad was an alcoholic and that ages you. He seemed to have aged a lot between the time we saw him when his wife died to when he arrived on the island. If not aged, then pretty rough at least.