[QUOTE=Monstre]
Except the problem with that as I see it comes from episode 2x07 “The Other 48 Days”. When Ana Lucia is having the conversation with Goodwin (before she ends up killing him). She’s already found the “list” that was being carried by one of the kiddie-abductors that she killed earlier – the list that had the names of the kids that were taken.
Ana: Did you kill him?" Goodwin: Nathan was not a good person. That’s why he wasn’t on the list. Ana: What about the kids? Did you kill them, too? Goodwin: The children are fine. They’re better off now.
And of course we have in the season 3 premiere Ben telling Ethan and Goodwin to make “lists”. So whoever did the kidnapping of the tailies, I’m sure Goodwin was involved with it. If there is another separate group (the Teddy-Bear Draggers), they are involved with our “Others” somehow. I can’t see that they are totally separate, from the Goodwin conversations.
Of course, there are some inconsistencies. In the same conversation I referenced above, Ana says:
“You ran out of the jungle 10 minutes after the crash… You weren’t wet…”
Although from the season 3 premiere, it sounded (and looked) like the Others were more than 10 minutes away, when Ethan and Goodwin were sent off on their missions. Although Ana could have been disoriented from the whole crash, and maybe it was more than 10 minutes.
[/QUOTE]
Very good points. It seems the producers have some splaining to do. I don’t remember their exact words in the podcast. I think they said that there were at least two “groups” or “factions” of others. They didn’t say that they weren’t all suburban Others–and we are starting to see a schism between Benry’s others anyway, so maybe Goodwin was part of the evil faction of Benry’s others, freelancing somehow. Or maybe he managed to compile a list and take it back to Benry immediately. After that, perhaps Benry ordered an immediate invasion (perhaps because the Tailies had more kids with them). Certainly possible.
[QUOTE=Gfactor]
Ahh . . . good catch. Did any of the other Losties see the overhead map? I don’t remember.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they were all together in the bunch of papers that Sayid took.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
I still think Sawyer can’t read.
-FrL-
[/QUOTE]
Am I being whooshed?
It certainly seems like he can read - quoting books, spending all that time staring at them… and more importantly, having to suck up his pride to get glasses to continue to do so.
I have a soft place for the theory that some of the losties were brought to the island on purpose for whatever reason. The fact that it looks like Jack is needed to remove a tumor I think supports this idea some. In the premier of this season, I think Benry was surprised in the manner in which the plane crashed, not that it was there. Desmond not pressing the button and causing the crash wasn’t expected by Benry and the gang, but the plane actually being 1000 miles off course was. So maybe the plane and those people were going to end up on the island in a more gracefull manner than exploding all over the place?
Regarding Others coming and going from the island and not needing to reproduce there. Didn’t Benry say he has only ever knew the island? In other words, he was born there and has never left? That would imply that the Others on the island have been around for at least a generation or two, maybe descendents of the crashed Black Perl or something?
Regarding the fertility doc. The stuff from the Lost Experience over the summer implied tha the vaccine and whatever the vaccine is for is still around and is/will play a part at some point. Perhaps Juliet isn’t there for fertility as far as reproducing but more for something relating to the vaccine?
Regarding the shark. I believe all we have seen was a shark fit with the Dharma logo on it. Maybe that is the sub in drag and not a real shark?
Just some random thoughts I had reading the boards and watching the episode.
[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Yeah, they were all together in the bunch of papers that Sayid took.
Am I being whooshed?
It certainly seems like he can read - quoting books, spending all that time staring at them… and more importantly, having to suck up his pride to get glasses to continue to do so.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t remember the bit about the glasses. I know he had some on and took some guff for wearing them. Is that what you’re referring to?
I also don’t remember him quoting from any books–just mentioning very broad plot points he could have easily picked up elsewhere.
As for him staring at books, I can easily imagine someone who can’t read putting on a show of being able to read, especially someone as (covertly) concerned with status and shame as Sawyer is.
Anyway, what made me think he isn’t actually reading is the following four facts:
He was looking at “Are You There God, It’s Me, Margaret” once, and I just couldn’t believe he’d let himself be caught dead reading this book if he knew what book it was.
He wouldn’t read his letter out loud, but made someone else read it instead.
The look on his face when he’s “reading” is not really a “reading” face but more of a “I’m trying to figure out what the hell these little scribbles could signify” face. Well, that’s a total judgment call, I know.
I’ve never seen Sawyer in a situation where I would have to explain something he did or said by reference to him having read something. This is not true of most of the characters.
Anyway, I don’t know if I really believe this or not, but its a fun theory to entertain.
[QUOTE=Jayrot]
Quote from S3E01, Benry: “…there might be survivors. You’re one of them [pointing to Goodwin and Ethan]. Listen, observe. Don’t get involved, I want lists in 3 days.”
But yet we learned that “on the first night they took 3 of us. Then the next night they took 9 more.”
Oversight?
[/QUOTE]
Actually, the “9 more” being taken happened on Day 12 (according to “The Other 48 Days”). The first 3 being taken happened on the first night – and according to Goodwin’s “theory” when he was still pretending, to Ana Lucia, it might have been to get the big and strong people out of the way – the “threats”.
And I don’t remember exactly how Ana Lucia phrased it in the statement you referenced, but in the actual episode about the Tailies, the kids were taken on day 12. So that would have given plenty of time for the list to have gotten back to Benry and for that group to solidify the “steal the kids” plan.
[QUOTE=AttackOfTheSmurf]
Desmond not pressing the button and causing the crash wasn’t expected by Benry and the gang, but the plane actually being 1000 miles off course was. So maybe the plane and those people were going to end up on the island in a more gracefull manner than exploding all over the place?
[/quote]
Interesting thought. Wonder if they have a landing strip? (I mean the main island or even Other-traz, not Kate… )
Ben said he’s lived on the island all his life. And if only it were the Black Pearl, then Jack Sparrow would be on the island, too. That could be loads of fun. But alas, it was the Black Rock.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
I don’t remember the bit about the glasses. I know he had some on and took some guff for wearing them. Is that what you’re referring to?
[/quote]
Sawyer was getting migraines, and Jack deduced it was because he needed reading glasses (after implying that it might be the symptom of some horrible STD, just to wind Sawyer up).
The only quote I recall is this week’s Of Mice and Men.
There’s a very limited supply of books on this island. Hell, by day 25, I’d probably read Maxim if somebody handed me a copy.
Sure, but he wrote it when he was a kid–he must have known how to read then.
[QUOTE=Draelin]
Sawyer was getting migraines, and Jack deduced it was because he needed reading glasses (after implying that it might be the symptom of some horrible STD, just to wind Sawyer up).
The only quote I recall is this week’s Of Mice and Men.
[/quote]
But Sawyer didn’t quote it. He just recalled a broad plot point. He didn’t say anything I myself don’t already know, and I’ve never read it either.
Then when Ben actually quoted it, Sawyer didn’t seem to recognize the text…
I recognize that detail is open to a different interpretation, I’m just giving the interpretation imputed by the present theory.
There’s what you would do, and there’s what Sawyer would do, and the two are probably very different.
It follows, of course, from the nature of the hypothesis I’m entertaining, that Sawyer did not write that letter. Perhaps he had a friend write it for him, or something.
I’ve just begun to wonder, though: Did Sawyer need to read in order to get to the man he killed in his backstory in season one? If so that definitely puts a damper on my theory.
[QUOTE=Monstre]
Actually, the “9 more” being taken happened on Day 12 (according to “The Other 48 Days”). The first 3 being taken happened on the first night – and according to Goodwin’s “theory” when he was still pretending, to Ana Lucia, it might have been to get the big and strong people out of the way – the “threats”.
And I don’t remember exactly how Ana Lucia phrased it in the statement you referenced, but in the actual episode about the Tailies, the kids were taken on day 12. So that would have given plenty of time for the list to have gotten back to Benry and for that group to solidify the “steal the kids” plan.
[/QUOTE]
Good point, nice catch.
Simply based on the first night, though, we know that logically it has to be the case that either
a) there are in fact two sets of Others, of which certain members of Benry & Friends may be a part
or
b) that with or without a list being created, Benry & The Quiet Commune sent a whole team of more people to start “getting involved”. On that first night, Eko killed 2 Others and there were countless more running around Tailie Rustling.
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ]
I’m not particularly fond of the face punching either. But it’s because their makeup people are decent and keep scars and scabs around for a while. I was really sick of looking at Benry’s split lip, and it was almost healed and Sawyer walloped him in the teeth. Now we get another six weeks of Split Lip Benry
[/QUOTE]
Maybe Michael Emerson got punched in the face in real life and they had to write it into the show.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
It follows, of course, from the nature of the hypothesis I’m entertaining, that Sawyer did not write that letter. Perhaps he had a friend write it for him, or something.
[/quote]
Or maybe Sawyer stole the letter from the previous Mr. Sawyer, who stole it from a previous Sawyer (who he took the name from) and so forth. It could be Illiterate Sawyers all the way down.
Well, he did start reading the letter to the guy after he shot him, but he didn’t get any further than “Dear Mr. Sawyer…”
[QUOTE=Frylock]
I’ve just begun to wonder, though: Did Sawyer need to read in order to get to the man he killed in his backstory in season one? If so that definitely puts a damper on my theory.
-FrL-
[/QUOTE]
Now that you mention it, in that episode the T-1000 gives him a file with the vital info on the person he supposedly looking for. We don’t know that he necessarily read it (and he did ask, “Where is he?” and was told “Sydney”) but it would be pretty safe to assume.
I dunno… The disadvantages to not being able to read ought to be crystal clear to someone as canny as Sawyer.
Even if he didn’t know at first, I think the first prison term should take care of it: most prisons have literacy programs and reading is one of the few entertainment options the prisoners have.
What if Sawyer couldn’t read before the crash, and the island “cured” him of that (dyslexia)? He read all of those books because now he can. And he realized after the crash he needed glasses because he had never read before.
[QUOTE=Jayrot]
(snip)…and Juliet who Sawyer could tell would have shot Kate “no problem”.
[/QUOTE]
This point bugged me, and I’m not sure if it will turn out to be an inconsistancy or a character complexity. Juliet, who had been framed as perhaps the person most willing to kill, tells Jack that she’s not used to dealing with death. She seemed a little too freaked out in the operating room to be the same calculating, trigger-willing vixen we saw in the previous episode. Granted, this was the death of a comrade, but it’s not like these people have spent all their time training to play Scrabble with anyone else who shows up on their island. If she is so willing to kill others, one would think she would be a bit less hysterical when one of her own gets killed.
At this point I have more faith in Sawyer’s judge of character than pretty much anyone else’s. Juliet’s interactions with and around Jack might very well prove to be yet another mindfuck.
)
