The Others also kidnapped Waaaaalt at gunpoint, shooting Sawyer and leaving him for dead, all because they tried to get home on a raft. If I was Sawyer, I’d have been smiling at one of them being shot and left for dead, that’s for sure.
They set into motion the killings of Anna Lucia and Libby. It’s not fair to lay it all on Michael, he would never have done such a thing if the Others hadn’t held Walt hostage. Their actions against the Tailies got A-L so scared that she shot Shannon, thinking she was an Other.
There’s a whole lot of graves on this island that would never have been dug if the Others left everyone alone.
Yes. Ben’s Other’s thing seems to involve drawing a moral distinction between “actual killing” and everything else. They can manipulate, beat, kidnap, strand, brainwash, perform involuntary procedures, shock, restrain, and imprison, as well as stand by and watch people suffer and die without offering so much as a bandaid, but they don’t pull the trigger. And they’re the *good * guys? Can’t wait to see what the bad twin does. :rolleyes:
Of course, Benry didn’t raise a moral objection to Colleen’s guy killing Sawyer. He said, “he can wait.” Not the words of a man who finds killing to be a no no.
Re: the lostaways should sail around the island: a little late for that, I think.
Other Suburbia has to be on the same island as the lostaways if the moles could get there in an hour, leaving the clearing in different directions.
[quote=Antigen]
Someone has to help me out with the golf club stuff - what was Desmond doing? drawing lightning to it, to protect Claire’s tent? His prophecy powers saw that she would be in danger, so he built a lightning rod?
[/quote[
Claire’s shelter looked to be the tallest one, so I think they want us to think her shelter would have been hurt, rather than the trees, which were taller even than the lightning rod. Actually, if lightning strikes really do go from the ground up, that makes a certain sense…
Kate’s there to use as leverage for Jack. Sawyer’s there because they need a con artist. It’s just a side bonus for them that they can use Kate as leverage on Sawyer, too, and they can use the need to fix things as leverage on Jack. And I don’t think these Others kidnapped the kids; that’s a different group on the main island, the barefoot teddy-bear-dragging guys.
Dewey–Sun shot Colleen, when they were belowdecks together.
In the first ep of this season we saw Benry order Ethan and the guy whose name I can’t recall to infiltrate the Losties and the Tailies. The guy who went to the Tailies killed the guy in the pit, on-camera.
All other deaths have been off-camera, but that one murder is enough to prove Ben’s a liar.
Don’t remember that. At any rate, Ben told Michael his friends would not be hurt, which is plainly a lie–and Ben (belatedly) admitted to lying when he was captured (which is unerstandable) and lying to Sawyer about his “surgery.” There’s no doubt Ben is an accomplished liar.
[quote=Ultros]
Question: lots of people keep referring to the Others as liars and killers. Now, I’m not exactly inclined to believe their “we’re not killers” line either, but every time they say that I keep reluctantly thinking “they’re telling the truth there, aren’t they?” I didn’t start watching until beginning of 2nd season, so I may have missed something, but do we know the Others have actually killed anyone (except for Ethan and Scott/Steve, which was an episode I didn’t see, but as I understand it the killing wasn’t clearly depicted and could have been in self-defense) or come close to doing so, in a non-self-defense situation?
[quote]
Benry’s group has:
Infiltrated the lostaways and tailies.
Killed the guy in the pit.
Tried to kill AnaLucia.
Kidnapped Claire.
Tried to kill Charlie by hanging.
Planned to remove Claire’s baby by Caesearian section and kidnap him.
Killed the guy on the beach.
Torched Michael’s raft.
Kidnapped Walt.
Kidnapped Kate, Sawyer and Jack.
And probably more stuff, but that’s all I can remember off the top of my head.
They’re the good guys, and not liars and killers. Right.
I know what you’re saying here, but the claim they keep making is “we’re not killers,” not “we’re not captors” or “we’re not raft-torchers” or “we’re not kidnappers” or “we’re not people who would shoot back in self-defense if we believed our lives were in danger.” Still, the examples you’ve provided of actual killings do give the lie to even their “we’re not killers” claim.
I’m not trying to defend the Others here but I’m getting an unfortunate sense that the writers are going to attempt to turn things around so as to portray them as really being “good guys.” I think the Others are engaging in some kind of world-saving secret research project, so they feel they’re justified in kidnapping, manipulation, beating, and potentially even killing individual people, because by doing so they will somehow “save” the human race as a whole. And I fear the writers are going to try to bring us viewers around to this point of view. That’s unfortunate because the Lostaways are going through a lot of suffering that really isn’t justified and is frustrating to watch, only because the writers must maintain this sense of mystery and not have the characters act as real people would, with the Lostaways acting curious and asking questions and the Others explaining themselves. That is, coming out and saying “the world is going to end and we’re working on trying to save it; we need your help” doesn’t make for suspenseful TV. So we get kidnappings and beatings that will eventually be excused, and forgiven by the Lostaways.
In the episode where Claire sees the others performing a procedure (and we clearly recognize Benry under a mask), was Juliet also there? Anyone have a picture?
I liked this episode. A little confusing, but the flashbacks actually told a story instead of just giving nuggets. The best flashbacks always have a semi-self contained narrative.
There’s enough cicrumstantial evidence to convict, your Honor. Ethan told Charlie that unless they surrendered Claire he would kill one of the Losties everyday. The next day, Steve or Scott is killed.
I also think that OtherTown is on the main island. Did he tell both Ethan and Goodwin that they could get to their respective sites in an hour? If so, that’s one small island, since they were, presumably, on opposite sides.
All these little “clues” and observations would only mean something if the writers had a master plan in which everything would dovetail towards something. The only master plan I see is to keep us watching between the commercials until interest wanes and the thing is cancelled. Too bad.
The thing about scott/steve’s death is that the description of the body… found on the beach and every bone was crushed kinda thing… maybe the sub ran over him?
to me, the most interesting line in last nites episode was as Sawyer was awakening for his procedure:
“… sky purple, no contact and our coms down for 2 days and I cant get it back on line…”
meaning that at this point the ‘others’ may be as screwed as anyone.
I am tiring of the show… but I also can’t quite quit watching… and next week they introduce another mysterious guy with a patch… maybe tigh landed there?
I’m figuring that Jack’s fish-tank/cell is in a tunnel running between the two islands(which explains its tendency to go Last 30 Minutes of Titanic when you open the wrong door). Based on the DharmaSquid logo on Juliet’s scrubs, I hereby dub it “Octopus’s Garden”.
This whole arc before they go on hiatus is to set up a post-escape/rescue “Who’s been turned to the Others’ side?” mystery for the rest of the season. 2 things I’d like to see: drop about 75% of the flashbacks (weknowthese people’s issues by now) and once the 3 little gits get back to camp, no more Other-world. If they interact, it’s in Fuselage-ville or in the jungle somewhere.
Or my personal wish list-kill Sawyer and Kate (bored now); build a medical facility and lock Jack up in it until someone needs a bullet yanked out; and more Desmond please.
