**
I wonder if this here, isn’t Scum and Scum. **
One step further :
Should we look at ALL ““gut feelings”” ? Including mine? Apparently, I was wrong on Telcontar, as far as the breadcrumbs went.
Meeko, how can either of us prove we’re Town, short of being killed off?
In six Dusk votes so far in my Mafiascum career: My gut feelings have been wrong. My reasoned opinions have been wrong. My tiebreakers have been wrong. People have been repeatedly convinced I’m Scum. And yet I’ve always been plain Town. Maybe this game ain’t for me.
That’s the rub. It all comes down to gut feelings. Even mine are gut. They are free. But, if we do not have them, what do we have?
I am just looking at your quote, of joining with Chronos, as how someone outisde of you two would look at it.
Take it, leave it, do what ever you want with it. I am not playing my best game leaving it out. And, we can not rule out that I might be right. It would be real Anti-town of me not to at least suggest it.
But, as for this game not being for you, I wonder the same, for me. Again, as I Stated earlier, I need to be Scum at least once before I can make that call.
It’s funny, every single end-of-day vote I’ve had in my entire Mafia career, I’ve ended up voting for the vote leader, and not once have I managed to hit the target (I did manage to hit a Sinner in Crimson Glyph, but they weren’t the main enemies).
Mind you, that’s still small-number statistics yet, but it’s still kind of funny.
Fuck. Well, so much for the name claim as a useful device.
**No more subs at this point in the game, by the way.
Updated Player List:
Alive:
Telcontar
AllWalker
Chronos
Meeko
BillMC replaced by USCDiver
Pedescribe
Paulwhoisaghost replaced by Scubaben
Zeriel
ShadowFacts
Jimmy Chitwood
Guy Incognitto, replaced by Storyteller
Cardinalfang
Dead:
Ichini(Sun, Ordinary Survivor)
Tom Scud(Hurley, Ordinary Survivor)
Nanook(Kate, Ordinary Survivor)
Oredigger(Sayid, Ordinary Survivor)
Imaginary Fiend(Nikki, Ordinary Survivor)**
I’m back.
Sorry I’ve been gone so long, it’s been a really, really busy 4 days, and I did not see it coming.
Um…yeah.
Well, isn’t that a spectacular cockup.
Nice work, scum. Played us like a fucking fiddle.
We are again back at this.
We are again back at my claim.
We are again back at claims
My claim came before Mahaloth gave an extra set of names to Scum. I have no reason to doubt that my claim was the EXACT reason why Mahaloth gave out a set of aliases to scum. The truth of my claim proved the necessity of giving alternate names to scum.
I am Sawyer, I am never claimed not to be. I can not stop you from drawing your own conclusions here. I am Town. I know I am town.
**I can’t say the same thing for you, Scuba. For starters, you just supply a name with your claim and then dodge out of giving a copy-pasted claim yourself. **
When I name claimed, Names were the only thing being discussed. I did what I had to do, when I had to do it. Thankfully for town, it worked.
But, I can not understand why it would be Pro-town to go BACK to my Name claim at all.
Why does town need to fish here?
I was wrong to move my vote off you, Ben, You have pushed me so far, and on top of that, you are still forcing the game back to claiming. I still believe that scum want town to spin their wheels on claiming.
I am making a calculated move here, talking at Night like this. But, I like my odds.
I don’t know if this is correct protocol to do this. Then again, I send return breadcrumbs with out even coming close to stating that I or claiming that I am Detective.
This move is calculated. I like my odds. I hope I am not proven wrong.
If I am, well, I know in hindsight Town will figure out what I am doing here.
FTR: There are no breadcrumbs in this post.
**
FOS Scuba_Ben **
Meeko, I’m sorry, man, but your breadcrumbs are bullshit. Stop talking about how fucking strategic you are and play the game, please. We just got jerked around. The only possible reason to talk about whether or not you’re breadcrumbing, and when you did in the past, is if you want the town to lose the game. Which it is anyway, but we’re still playing at the moment.
These consecutive end-of-day whirlwinds have so conclusively fucked up the logic of every vote choice that it’s going to be impossible to separate out the intentional from the retarded.
What you have to understand then is that none of us KNOW that your name claim was valid. You didn’t post a PM, so we don’t know what your true ROLE claim is. We’ve had a lot of back and forth about MASS claiming and it has been a bit of a distraction, HOWEVER we are obligated to evaluate and RE-EVALUATE each individual name and/or role claim as they are made. We have lynched townie after townie and now you’re upset that one player is ‘going back’. What else do you propose we do if not go back and re-evaluate every assumption we’ve made so far?
On a different subject. I feel a little more free now to discuss the no-kill from last Night. My assumption is that Scum targeted storyteller because he mentioned he’d been blocked. That was a pretty big power role tell, but I also suspect that there is a town aligned protector role that also picked up on the tell and protected storyteller during the night.
As for why storyteller would be so bold as to announce he had been blocked, he’ll have to tell us for sure, but I would guess he hoped that the roleblocker was town-aligned and would take that as a cue to leave him alone the following Night. Since he’s posted that he was blocked both nights, we can probably assume that the roleblocker is Scum aligned (if we’re taking storyteller’s claim at face value).
Stop talking about how I AM PLAYING the game, and play it yourself.
Now we’re talking.
Update of my computer program:
[noparse]#include <stdio.h>
#define n_players 13 /* Number of players under analysis */
#define max_scum 4 /* Maximum expected number of Scum */
#define min_scum 4 /* Minimum expected number of Scum */
#define town_votes 30 /* Number of Town votes cast so far */
#define scum_votes 12 /* Number of Scum votes cast so far */
main()
{
int players[n_players]; /* Stores the alignment of each player. 0 = Town, 1 = Scum */
unsigned int players_binary;
unsigned int players_binary_shifting;
char names[n_players][20] = {"Telcontar", "AllWalker", "Chronos", "Imaginary Fiend", "Meeko", "USCDiver", "pedescribe", "Scuba Ben", "Zeriel", "ShadowFacts", "Jimmy Chitwood", "storyteller", "cardinal_fang"};
int n_scum;
int buses; /* Number of times Scum voted for Scum */
int attacks; /* Number of times Town voted for Scum */
int i;
int score[n_players];
int total_scenarios = 0;
for(i=0;i<n_players;i++) score* = 0; /* Initialize everyone's score */
for(players_binary=0; players_binary < 8192; players_binary++) {
players_binary_shifting = players_binary;
for(i=0;i<n_players;i++) {
players* = players_binary_shifting & 1; /* Populate the players[] array according to the value of players_binary */
players_binary_shifting = players_binary_shifting >> 1;
}
n_scum = 0;
buses = 0;
attacks = 0;
for(i=0;i<n_players;i++) {
if(players* == 1) n_scum++; /* Count the number of Scum */
}
/* Count number of buses-- Only counting final votes */
if(players[0] && players[3]) buses++; // Telcontar voted for Fiend
if(players[3] && players[9]) buses++; // Fiend voted for ShadowFacts
if(players[4] && players[5]) buses++; // Meeko voted for BillMC/USCDiver
if(players[4] && players[12]) buses++; // Meeko voted for cardinal_fang
if(players[5] && players[4]) buses++; // USCDiver voted for Meeko
if(players[5] && players[2]) buses++; // USCDiver voted for Chronos
if(players[6] && players[3]) buses++; // pede voted for Fiend
if(players[8] && players[1]) buses++; // Zeriel voted for AllWalker
if(players[9] && players[7]) buses++; // ShadowFacts voted for Scuba_Ben
if(players[10] && players[6]) buses++; // Jimmy Chitwood voted for pede
if(players[10] && players[2]) buses++; // Jimmy Chitwood voted for Chronos
if(players[12] && players[3]) buses++; // cardinal_fang voted for Fiend
if(players[12] && players[2]) buses++; // cardinal_fang voted for Chronos
if(players[0] && players[6]) buses++; // Telcontar voted for pede
if(players[1] && players[7]) buses++; // AllWalker voted for Scuba
if(players[5] && players[2]) buses++; // USCDiver voted for Chronos
if(players[8] && players[2]) buses++; // Zeriel voted for Chronos
if(players[10] && players[2]) buses++; // Jimmy voted for Chronos
if(players[12] && players[2]) buses++; // cardinal_fang voted for Chronos
/* Count number of attacks-- End of day */
if(!players[0] && players[3]) attacks++; // Telcontar voted for Fiend
if(!players[3] && players[9]) attacks++; // Fiend voted for ShadowFacts
if(!players[4] && players[5]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for BillMC/USCDiver
if(!players[4] && players[12]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for cardinal_fang
if(!players[5] && players[4]) attacks++; // USCDiver voted for Meeko
if(!players[5] && players[2]) attacks++; // USCDiver voted for Chronos
if(!players[6] && players[3]) attacks++; // pede voted for Fiend
if(!players[8] && players[1]) attacks++; // Zeriel voted for AllWalker
if(!players[9] && players[7]) attacks++; // ShadowFacts voted for Scuba_Ben
if(!players[10] && players[6]) attacks++; // Jimmy Chitwood voted for pede
if(!players[10] && players[2]) attacks++; // Jimmy Chitwood voted for Chronos
if(!players[12] && players[3]) attacks++; // cardinal_fang voted for Fiend
if(!players[12] && players[2]) attacks++; // cardinal_fang voted for Chronos
if(players[3]) attacks += 2; // Tom Scud and Nanook (known Town) voted Fiend
if(players[11]) attacks++; // Ichini (known Town) voted storyteller
if(players[2]) attacks++; // Oredigger (known Town) voted Chronos
if(!players[0] && players[6]) attacks++; // Telcontar voted for pede
if(!players[1] && players[7]) attacks++; // AllWalker voted for Scuba
if(!players[5] && players[2]) attacks++; // USCDiver voted for Chronos
if(!players[8] && players[2]) attacks++; // Zeriel voted for Chronos
if(!players[10] && players[2]) attacks++; // Jimmy voted for Chronos
if(!players[12] && players[2]) attacks++; // cardinal_fang voted for Chronos
/* Count number of buses-- Withdrawn votes */
/* if(players[0] && players[6]) buses++; // Telcontar voted for pede
if(players[1] && players[4]) buses++; // AllWalker voted for Meeko
if(players[2] && players[3]) buses++; // Chronos voted for Fiend
if(players[4] && players[6]) buses++; // Meeko voted for pede
if(players[4] && players[10]) buses++; // Meeko voted for Jimmy
if(players[4] && players[3]) buses++; // Meeko voted for Fiend
if(players[5] && players[1]) buses++; // USCDiver voted for AllWalker
if(players[6] && players[2]) buses++; // pede voted for Chronos
if(players[6] && players[4]) buses++; // pede voted for Meeko
if(players[7] && players[9]) buses++; // Scuba voted for Shadowfacts
if(players[7] && players[8]) buses++; // Scuba voted for Zeriel
if(players[9] && players[0]) buses++; // Shadow voted for Telcontar
if(players[10] && players[3]) buses++; // Jimmy voted for Fiend
if(players[11] && players[2]) buses++; // storyteller voted for Chronos
if(players[12] && players[6]) buses++; // cardinal_fang voted for pede
if(players[0] && players[11]) buses++; // Telcontar voted for storyteller
if(players[2] && players[11]) buses++; // Chronos voted for storyteller
if(players[4] && players[5]) buses++; // Meeko voted for USCDiver
if(players[4] && players[7]) buses++; // Meeko voted for Scuba
if(players[7] && players[2]) buses++; // Scuba voted for Chronos
if(players[7] && players[11]) buses++; // Scuba voted for storyteller
if(players[9] && players[7]) buses++; // Shadow voted for Scuba
*/
/* Count number of attacks-- Withdrawn votes */
/* if(!players[0] && players[6]) attacks++; // Telcontar voted for pede
if(!players[1] && players[4]) attacks++; // AllWalker voted for Meeko
if(!players[2] && players[3]) attacks++; // Chronos voted for Fiend
if(!players[4] && players[6]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for pede
if(!players[4] && players[10]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for Jimmy
if(!players[4] && players[3]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for Fiend
if(!players[5] && players[1]) attacks++; // USCDiver voted for AllWalker
if(!players[6] && players[2]) attacks++; // pede voted for Chronos
if(!players[6] && players[4]) attacks++; // pede voted for Meeko
if(!players[7] && players[9]) attacks++; // Scuba voted for Shadowfacts
if(!players[7] && players[8]) attacks++; // Scuba voted for Zeriel
if(!players[9] && players[0]) attacks++; // Shadow voted for Telcontar
if(!players[10] && players[3]) attacks++; // Jimmy voted for Fiend
if(!players[11] && players[2]) attacks++; // storyteller voted for Chronos
if(!players[12] && players[6]) attacks++; // cardinal_fang voted for pede
if(players[4]) attacks += 2; // Tom Scud and Oredigger (known Town) voted Meeko
if(!players[0] && players[11]) attacks++; // Telcontar voted for storyteller
if(!players[2] && players[11]) attacks++; // Chronos voted for storyteller
if(!players[4] && players[5]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for USCDiver
if(!players[4] && players[7]) attacks++; // Meeko voted for Scuba
if(!players[7] && players[2]) attacks++; // Scuba voted for Chronos
if(!players[7] && players[11]) attacks++; // Scuba voted for storyteller
if(!players[9] && players[7]) attacks++; // Shadow voted for Scuba
*/
if((min_scum<=n_scum) && (n_scum<=max_scum)) /* Throw out cases with wrong number of Scum */
if((attacks)*scum_votes > (buses)*town_votes) /* Throw out cases with Scum not voting Scummily */
/* Add other assumptions (delete or add any considered appropriate) */
/* if(players[2] == 0) */ /* Assume Chronos Town */
if(players[4] == 0) /* Assume Meeko Town */
if(players[3] == 0) /* Fiend was Town */
{
total_scenarios++;
/* Output all scenarios */
for(i=0;i<n_players;i++) {
if(players* == 0) printf("%s",names*);
if(players* == 1) {
printf("%s",names*);
score*++;
}
}
printf("
");
}
}
/* Output scores */
fprintf(stderr,"Total number of possibilities: %d
",total_scenarios);
for(i=0;i<n_players;i++) fprintf(stderr,"%s %d
",names*,score*);
return(0);
}[/noparse]
Updated results:
Without assuming me Town:
Total number of possibilities: 240
Telcontar 89
AllWalker 80
Chronos 83
Imaginary Fiend 0
Meeko 0
USCDiver 91
pedescribe 92
Scuba Ben 94
Zeriel 68
ShadowFacts 94
Jimmy Chitwood 74
storyteller 104
cardinal_fang 91
With assuming me Town:
Total number of possibilities: 157
Telcontar 60
AllWalker 50
Chronos 0
Imaginary Fiend 0
Meeko 0
USCDiver 74
pedescribe 61
Scuba Ben 62
Zeriel 49
ShadowFacts 64
Jimmy Chitwood 60
storyteller 74
cardinal_fang 74
I still have a few ideas yet on how to improve this, but I don’t know when I’ll get around to them. The basic idea is to consider information from mid-day votes cast by Townies, but not from mid-day votes cast by Scum.
The mass-name-claim discussion was all on Day 1. I subbed in at the start of Day 2. And all I did was post my thoughts about your claim – just as you have posted your thoughts about mine.
As for your challenge on me – would you believe me if I pasted in what I claimed was my role PM? How can you – indeed, any player – tell the difference between me posting my role PM and a plain Town role PM posted upthread? Should anybody answer that issue well, I’ll post my role message.
And to return the favor – the thread title is Mafia/Werewolf/Psychopath. In every game that I’ve followed, a psychopath is a PFK role; the pro-Town equivalent is Vigilante. How do we know your role isn’t Psychopath? The temper is certainly there.
I’m simply going to assume you’re going to vote to lynch me Tomorrow, and that there’s nothing I can do to talk you out of it. So kindly post your reasons come Dawn, so that they’re out there for everybody else to evaluate. I’ll invest my time & effort in finding Scum. (Or, more likely, deciding who I think is Scum, and then NOT voting for them. I fail at hunting Scum.)
Sheesh! The first two games I was in, there was a haunted bar at night. Where’s the booze on this island? 
Fiend did not even cast a vote. That doesn’t make sense, given he could have saved himself.
Actually, I am not lurking. Not sure what your definition is, but as I have previously pointed out, I am generally unable to play during the day, and will catch up in the evenings and post my thoughts. I have tried to research and justify my votes instead of posting “gut feelings” and switching my vote multiple times based on knee-jerk reactions. As such, my post count may be lower than others, but I believe they are substantive, at least.
The real thing is, you are never sure of anything Town related, until death.
Holy crap. Town went crazy.
What a mess.
Pass the mead.