LOTR *BOOK* fans...start your engines! (moan at the changes) SPOILERS!!!

[CloudCar]

I have little expectation that the film will attempt to follow the motives and personalities of the characters. Here are my predictions for the third installment of the films:

Aragorn will still be more of a coward and wimp than ever.

Gollum will sound like Donald Duck . . . again.

Aragorn will still be thinking of cheating on Arwen.

Sam and Frodo will take a little waste of screen time side trip that Peter Jackson completely made up.

Denathor will probably act like he’s the Steward of Candyland.

Sam and Frodo will return happily ever after to the Shire which will be miraculously untouched by war.

That actor who plays Frodo will be crying the whole damn time.

Frodo will probably not get his finger bitten off by Gollum but will probably cast the ring into the fire all by his own little teary eyed little self.

Gollum will probably survive the whole thing to become a good little Donald Duck Smeagol again (we wouldn’t want all the kids getting their feeling hurt that he actually dies) **Yes, Gollum damn well does die if you don’t happen to be spoiled. **

Sam will probably never come into the possession of the ring.

Kingsfoil has already been used for some pointless reason in the first movie so we probably won’t see that.

Faramir and Eowyn certianly will probably never meet much less get married.

The battle between Eowyn and the Nazgul King will either be drawn out much longer than the text mentions or will be completely excluded to make way for Frodo and Sam’s aforementioned side trip perhaps all the way back to the misty mountains - to get some of Gollum’s things for example.

If Peter Jackson for some reason does remarkably decide to follow the movie and allows Frodo to get captured after the encounter with Shelob he will probably get all mixed up and will send Frodo to the Spice Mines of Kessel on accident.

Elrond and Galadriel will show up at the last moment with five hundrend elf warriors in aid of Gondor.

Arwen will be involved once again in some form of battle.

The paths of the Dead will be changed pointlessly - if not entirely excluded. Example: The exclusion of the Corsairs of Umbar has already been mentioned. This is a foregone conclusion.

Gandalf will kill Saruman.

Grima Wormtongue will die by the hands of Treebeard.

Denathor will see the error of his ways and turn the rule of Gondor over to Aragorn peacefully and with a handshake.

Faramir will die.

Eowyn will die.

Peregrin will die.

Gandalf will die and be reincarnated as Gandalf the Orange.

Marty McFly will zoom in on his Delorean to rescue Sam and Frodo the ten finger from the ruins of Mordor.

The cast will include Leslie Neilsen and the San Francisco 49ers.

Merriadoc and Peregrin will be referred to as Marry and Pipsqueak.

Jim Carry will be recast for the role of Gimli to provide us a little comic relief/fart jokes.

The Gray Havens will include a Broadway style burst into song and dance.

Christopher Lee and Ian McKellan will be the only actors worth watching.

Bilbo will be voiced by Donald Duck.

Tom Bombadill will appear with his boy toy Fatty Bolger.

Farmer Maggot, only previously mentioned, will get his own prime time talk show.

Rose Cotton will marry Frodo.

Sam will kill Frodo out of Jealously for marrying Rose.

Pipsqueak will be named Sword Thain of the Shire.

Sharky will be Sam’s running mate in the election for President of the Southfarthing.

Merry will plant the magic acorn-nut of Galadriel and henceforth will spring Elanor the blonde-tree-flower of Malorn the only blonde Hobbit east of Never-Never land.

Whew.

If Jackson sticks to these changes and these changes only I guess I will be able to sit through the movie without too much resentment. If I have a lobotomy I might even be able to enjoy it.

[Equipoise]

You have problems no movie could fix.

[Equipoise]

*Originally posted by Equipoise *
**You have problems no movie could fix. **

That came out snarkier than I meant, because I couldn’t very well show my shaking head and confuzzled smile.

[glee]

I agree with Tremmie that the Nazgul discovering the Ringbearer in Osgiliath could lead to Sauron changing tactics.
I suggest that because there were forces from Minas Tirith there that Sauron will assume the Ringbearer is going to be taken back to the city (as indeed Faramir was planning). Sauron will further assume that someone powerful (Aragorn, Gandalf) will then take the Ring - because that’s how Sauron thinks.

I am sorry if fans of Tolkien are not enjoying the films.
I am a (lapsed) member of the UK Tolkien Society, who read the books over 35 years ago, and even got a short reply from Professor Tolkien himself to a query of mine. I was in a preview audience of the Ralph Bakshi cartoon (when we all laughed out loud as the Elven rider from Rivendell changed from Glorfindel to Legolas!)
My point is that I am jolly keen on Tolkien, but I deeply respect what Peter Jackson has achieved.
He has got proper funding for the film, excellent actors + stuntmen, superb scenery + computer graphics + belief in the heights of the main characters, resonant + memorable music and has tackled a tricky conversion from book to film really well.

I think Jackson’s true genius comes through in the Extended Editions. if you haven’t got them, I urge you to do so.
The extra and extended scenes (Hobbits down the pub; Elves passing to the Grey Havens; the Fellowship departing Rivendell etc etc); the commentaries by both writers, actors and special effects crew; how they filmed in parallel and incorporated the music - these are really fascinating (and contain hours of extra enjoyment!).

P.S. CloudCar,

As I said, I’m sorry if you’re not enjoying it. I am a keen roleplayer and really looked forward to the ‘Dungeons + Dragons’ movie. This was (sadly) very badly done. The ‘plot’ eventually relied on a bunch of characters wriggling free from their captors and simply punching them.
The budget for special effects obviously ran out, as did the money for scriptwriting.
For me that film was a disaster - but the Lord of the Rings is a triumph.

[Algorithm]

*Originally posted by CloudCar *
**Gandalf will die and be reincarnated as Gandalf the Orange.
**

Thanks for the laugh. I about pissed myself when I read this.

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

one thing that really really really bothers me about the movies is the scene at Osgiliath where Frodo almost hands over the ring to the Witch King. I mean… hello? quest over, isnt it? “hey boss there is a hobbit in osgiliath and he has the ring!” The moment Sauron found that out he would have forgotten all about Minas Tirith and gone after Frodo, that just totally ruins the whole secrecy thing!

I agree, this was an extremely confusing scene. I’m hoping for some explanation in RotK.

There might some explanation in term of the Nazgul being unable to detect the ring until Frodo puts it on. That seems implausible, and inconsistent with the scene at Weathertop in FotR, but it might be what is intended.

[Qadgop_the_Mercotan]

*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven *
**I agree, this was an extremely confusing scene. I’m hoping for some explanation in RotK.

There might some explanation in term of the Nazgul being unable to detect the ring until Frodo puts it on. That seems implausible, and inconsistent with the scene at Weathertop in FotR, but it might be what is intended. **

I never thought Frodo was handing it over, I thought that he was being compelled to put it on. Then the nazgul would have seen clearly both the ring and Frodo.

IIRC, the ring called to the nazgul, but they could not see it unless the bearer wore it. Note how close the nazgul was to the ring in FOTR when the hobbits were under the treeroots by the roadside.

IMHO, anyway

[Gorsnak]

Anyways, even if the Nazgul thought the ring was in Osgiliath (I seriously doubt he could have distinguished between man and hobbit under the conditions), the natural conclusion for Sauron is that Gondor has the ring and is attempting to use it against him. Not that two short people are going to try to sneak it to Mount Doom. That sequence didn’t bother me, actually.

[Tremmie]

*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan *
**I never thought Frodo was handing it over, I thought that he was being compelled to put it on. Then the nazgul would have seen clearly both the ring and Frodo.

IIRC, the ring called to the nazgul, but they could not see it unless the bearer wore it. Note how close the nazgul was to the ring in FOTR when the hobbits were under the treeroots by the roadside.

IMHO, anyway **

I don’t know man. He climbed to the top to get nearer to the Nazgul and extended his hand towards him. Whenever Frodo has felt the compulsion to put on the ring so far hes always held it close to his heart, and in the FOTR when the Nazgul was near them and he almost put on the ring he still managed to stay hidden. Another thing that bothers me about that scene is that Faramir changes his mind and lets them go right after he sees that happen! no one in their right mind would have let them go after seeing Sam barely avoid having Frodo betray everyone to the enemy by tackling him of that tower.

[little_lighthouse]

The only dissapointment I have to the “cuts” is that the ending when they do go back to the Shire.
To me, in the book, that made everything come “full circle”.
Obviously, in the movie, the Hobbits aren’t the important characters.

Faramir doesn’t end up with Eowyn?! Good- can I have him then- “pant-pant”- he’s the one I had a crush on in the book!

[Equipoise]

For those who want to be spoiled to within an inch of their lives, here is a full Q&A session with “Marty” the guy who saw it at the DGA screening last week.

EVERY KIND OF SPOILER YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE IS COMPILED HERE.

Once more, with feeling:

EVERY KIND OF SPOILER YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE IS COMPILED HERE.
http://www.movie-page.net/martyrotk.html

[kiwiboy]

Re Shagrat and Gorbag

I’ve just been watching the Red Carpet special on NZ TV for the premiere and Peter Jackson introduced two actors who played these orcs. Not sure whether there’s going to be a capturing scene, but these two will definately be in the movie.

[TWDuke]

little lighthouse

…Obviously, in the movie, the Hobbits aren’t the important characters…

They are. Sam and Frodo get a lot of screen time, and the other characters talk about them when they’re off screen. For me, Pippin stole the show.

The final reel includesThe Hobbits returning to the Shire, a brief glimpse of Sam and Rosie’s wedding, Bilbo and Frodo getting on the ship and Sam speaking the final three wordsamong other hobbity things.

lemmie

I don’t know man. He climbed to the top to get nearer to the Nazgul and extended his hand towards him. Whenever Frodo has felt the compulsion to put on the ring so far hes always held it close to his heart, and in the FOTR when the Nazgul was near them and he almost put on the ring he still managed to stay hidden. Another thing that bothers me about that scene is that Faramir changes his mind and lets them go right after he sees that happen! no one in their right mind would have let them go after seeing Sam barely avoid having Frodo betray everyone to the enemy by tackling him of that tower.

I don’t think Frodo was handing the ring directly to the Nazgul, but putting it on would have had the same effect. I think it’s different than the encounter in the forest because Sauron’s strength has grown while Frodo’s is nearly exhausted, and they’re closer to Sauron than before. Faramir sees that the Ring attracts big nasty things and the one who bears the Ring is unable to resist big nasties, making it the kind of thing you would NOT want to give to your father and/or commander-in-chief, who is already on the edge.

Fish

Erm, it’s hard to say what that bullet point means when it says “no capture by Shagrat and Gorbag.” Does this mean that we do not see the characters of Shagrat and Gorbag haggling over the mithril coat? that we do not see them exchanging views on the course of the War, and how some of the big ones, aye, even the Biggest, can make mistakes? do we not hear them arguing about whether Frodo is really dead or poisoned?

Does their exclusion mean we are going to eliminate Sam’s ascent into the Tower of Cirith Ungol to rescue Frodo? You see, I can live without Shagrat and Gorbag in particular – just like I could live without Grishnakh pawing Merry and Pippin in search of the Ring – as long as the main character point is there. It is incredibly important for Sam to take the quest into his own hands and reject it in favor of rescuing Frodo. I can dispense with two minor characters and some dithering dialogue in favor of this amazingly important character development for Sam

We get an explanation of how Shelob stuns her prey. A scuffle over the coat and other goodies leads to orc-on-orc violence in the tower. We don’t hear much orc small-talk. We don’t see Sam planning to finish the Quest himself, but we do see him charge up the tower, rescue Frodo and give him the ring, but not before hesitating long enough to drive home the point that Frodo has to be the one to carry it.

As for some of the spoilers in the OP:

[spoiler]quote:

No Voice of Saruman - Saruman does not appear on screen and Gandalf merely says to someone else, he has no power anymore.
No Aragorn/Sauron Palantir Confrontation - we have a vestige of this, enough to show Sauron that Isildur’s heir is here.
No Crossroads - correct
No Denethor/Palantir mention - Denethor is there, creepier than ever, but apparently Palantir-less
No Voice of Sauron - Captains of the West ride to the gate, Gandalf issues a challenge, the gates open and Sauron’s huge army marches out.
No Gollum sneak attack on the slopes of Mt. Doom. – but there’s plenty of sneaking and attacking.
No battle with the Corsairs – we see the Corsairs on ships, then we see the heroes and their reinforcements on the ships, but no battle.
No funeral for Theoden/Crowning of Eomer - correct
No Faramir/Eowyn romance/wedding - they seem to be together at the Coronation.
No minor characters (Eldarion, Imrahil, Beregond) - correct
No capture by Shagrat and Gorbag. - see previous spoiler box
No Sam/Frodo marching with the orcs - *we do see them in goblin armor, looking like characters from *Labyrinth.
No Epilogue - correct
it goes on and on and on…
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/spoiler]
…based on my memory of last night’s screening. I certainly didn’t like all the cuts, but there seemed to be a lot less added material. Almost everything was from the book or had a direct parallel there. Overall, an amazing movie.(See my mini review)

I wasn’t

[SanguineSpider]

The books are the books, the films are the films… get over it. Personally, I love what Jackson has done so far and I offer a hearty “HUZZAH!” to him.