LOTR: Questions about the wizards (possible spoilers)

Roughly: Thingol was a great Elven-king, and had dealings with the Dwarves. The Dwarves made a really spiffy necklace, the Necklace of the Dwarves (it has a name, too, but I don’t recall it), which was generally considered the most beautiful thing ever made by any non-Elf. The Dwarves sold it to Thingol on a sort of installment plan.

Meanwhile, Thingol managed to get ahold of one of the Silmarils (the details are long and too good to spoil here: Suffice to say that a Silmaril was considered cheap, for the price he paid). The three Silmarils are universally reckoned to be the fairest of all works of hands, ever, and Thingol (or one of the Elvish smiths working for him, I don’t recall) got the bright idea to combine the greatest works of Elf and Dwarf, and re-worked the Necklace to incorporate the Silmaril into it as a centerpiece. Now, ordinarily, this probably would have been a good idea, and might have strengthened the friendship between Elves and Dwarves. But then Thingol got the idea into his head that, since the Elves had incorporated something so great into the Necklace, it was now partly an Elvish creation, so he didn’t need to pay for it any more. The dwarves said that if he wasn’t going to pay for it, they’d be glad to take the Necklace back… but with the Silmaril still in it.

So now, instead of the Elves claiming the Silmaril and the Dwarves claiming the Necklace, we have both groups claiming both items (the Silmarils seem to have a tendancy to encourage this sort of thing). The predictable result was war, and both sides suffered greatly: Thingol’s kingdom was destroyed and his people scattered, and most of the dwarves of that nation were killed. This was the start of the animosity between the two peoples.

Since then, relations between dwarves and elves have had ups and downs: I believe that the Khazad Dum - Hollin alliance came significantly after that first Dwarf-Elf falling out, and it’s implied that the friendship of Legolas and Gimli led to another period of good relations.

The necklace was the Nauglamir (Dwarf-Jewel). And the Silmarils themselves weren’t the actual cause of all the strife that surrounded them. Feanor’s Oath was.

Also, a number of Fëanor’s sons considered the naugrim (dwarves) to be stunted and unlovely, and tended to treat them with contempt. Relations were rocky from the start.

Ha ha! Rocky! You kill me, QtM.

Because of the Dwarves origins, in case anyone’s wondering.

Brad! Janet! Durin! Rocky! Aglâb!

Thanks for the info. It figures the Silmarils would work into it.

DD

Tim Curry as an elf. Hmmm… I don’t know. (Perhaps as a half-elf?) :wink:

To which I reply:

No, not exactly. Like Sauron, he was reduced to a shadow of his former self - wailing and gnashing his non-existent teah in the outer darkness. Not gone, but cursed to feel only the pale reflections of existence and be consumed in his own hatred for Middle earth, who will be quite happy without him.

As to where the missing Palantiri went, your questions may be answered by a little thing we call Antiques Roadshow. Stay tuned.

One thing not mentioned in regards to Saruman’s fall from grace is that when he took on the mantle of man, he also took on mannish weaknesses and vulnerabilities, which included a thirst for power and very little self-control. Oh, and an intense need to shave.

I’m surprised this has not been mentioned yet.