In addition, there’s the palantir in Isengard, which I didn’t go into in depth in my previous post. These were meant as a mental communication system (to understate the case) for the Numenoreans. By the time Saruman gets to Isengard, Sauron has one of them (the one from Minas Ithil, as Orbifold points out). You can see the effect it has when other people use it - Denethor’s madness in the third book, Pippin’s nightmares from looking into it just the one time. Saruman may well have had good intentions when he looked into it, knowing that he had strength, and lacking other examples (or a surety that Sauron already had one). Gradually, though, it must have played a major part in how Sauron corrupted Saruman.
Now, Saruman may have been thinking, “I need to pretend to work with Sauron to survive long enough to get the ring, then I can turn on him.” But that’s just the kind of thought Sauron would manipulate him with.
It’s interesting to note that Gandalf is wise enough to know not to use it - whether he figured it out on his own, or saw the example of Saruman, is an interesting question.
Anyway, I think when you’re wondering how Saruman was corrupted, you have to take the palantir - and Sauron’s influence through it - into account as a major factor.
Well, Aragorn’s ancestry plays a critical role in LOTR. Reclaiming the kingship, re-uniting the long sundered houses and all that. A bit of extra attention to the back-story wouldn’t have gone astray.
According to Middle-Earth Science Pages this is about right. The site lists total of 16 Lords of Andúnië between Valandil and Amandil, Elendil’s father. However I couldn’t find any information about how this number is determined. Maybe someone has another sources about it?
Beor wasn’t first-generation, he was just the earliest human mentioned in the geneaologies. By Beor’s time, the origin of humans was already distant myth (by human reckoning, at least).
And I did count them once, and I’m sure I remember there being 43 (I’m good at remembering numbers). But I didn’t memorize the list, and I’ll have to look them up again. By Wednesday I should be able to post my list.
Hey, let’s make up names for those missing lords of Andunië! After Valandil comes Isordil, then Mevacor, then Indocin, then Inderal, then Lotensin, then Wygesic!
To elabroate, Odinoneeye, Gandalf had a “chance” meeting with Thorin in Bree, as he was on his way to the Shire. He was concerned that if the Necromancer (Sauron) wasn’t driven out of Mirkwood, that he might influence Smaug to launch an attack against the elves in Rivendell (and probably Lothlorien and Mirkwood).
Gandalf simply took the opportunity and ran with it.
(my info is taken from one of the may appendices on RoTK.)
As long as this thread is drifting all over the place, what was the cause of the enmity between the Elves and the Dwarves? I’ve forgotten what it is and prowled around the appendices with no luck. The Noldor and the dwarves of Dwarrowdelf were quite friendly – the Moria gate was a joint project – but from some time after that to what amounts to the present they were at each other’s throats.
The Battle of the Five Armies at the end of The Hobbit was a Dwarves vs. Elves and Men slugfest until a common enemy – Goblins and Wargs – showed up. It was a mark of the seriousness of the situation that Dwarves were invited to the council of Elrond at all.
I’ll jump in with a vague answer until somebody who actually knows comes along…
I believe it had to do with the Silmarils, and a necklace made by the dwarves out of the one jewel that Beren recovered…and some nasty disputes over payment, or some such.