Not having the Silmarillion at hand, I went to the Appendices of LoTR. Although there are references to Morgoth being defeated, overthrown, etc., none refer to his destruciton. Mea culpa for the over-simplification and thank you for pointing it out.
Also, there is no line about “300 lives of men” in the book, as I think others have said. I think PJ intended it to be understood as a metaphor. IOW, “I’ve waited out the long years of my existance, when time stretched endlessly before me, yet now time is fleeting and precious.”
Another small nitpick – that’s just the movie. In the book, it’s actually Gandalf that suggests taking the route through the Mines of Moria as a shortcut (not Gimli), and it’s Aragorn who is most reluctant to go there.
I recall someone posting here a while back that while the rest of Middle Earth was thought out pretty thoroughly, Tom Bombadil was a character that Tolkien added on a whim that was inspired by one of his daughter’s dolls. As he wrote more books to flesh out the history of M.E. Tolkien himself apparently admitted that Bombadil just didn’t fit into the bigger picture.
Tolkien geek emeritus. I used to have all this stuff committed to memory but I haven’t read the books since The Two Towers film came out and I’m rusty on my lore. I’m pointing in the right direction, and I hope someone can add the details or correct me where I’m astray.
To further hijack RogueRacer’s hijack of:
The Battle of Nanduhirion was an attempt by the Dwarves to retake Khazad-Dûm which failed utterly to penetrate even the outer gate. In it, Thorin (son of Thrain, son of Thror) received his nickname of Thorin Oakenshield for defending himself with an oak branch when his shield split. One of the Dwarves (forgive me, I have not read the appendices in some time) stood at the very gates of Moria and saw a shadow within; he later warned Thror never to enter Moria again, lest he perish.
So yes, the Dwarves fought once to reclaim Khazad-Dûm, prior to Balin’s occupation therein, but they never succeeded at getting inside. I think in the book this was the only hint of what lay inside, for the Dwarf at the gate (was it Dain?) never spoke to anyone of what he saw inside.
Regarding Gandalf and casting spells, he does know them and he does call them as such. From memory, paraphrasing Gandalf in The Fellowship of the Ring: Gandalf is asked how he intends, without knowing the password, to unlock the Moria-gate: “I once knew every spell in the tongues of Elves, Men and Orcs ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching in my mind.” Later through Moria, as they are fleeing from the Chamber of Records, Gandalf tarries at the top of a staircase to bar the door with magic: “I had to use a word of Command.” (Capitalization Tolkien’s, as I remember it.)
Regarding the lives of Men, Aragorn was of the blood of the Men of the West, and he lived about… oh, 160 or so years, if I recall the appendix correctly. Someone with the books readily to hand can give you the exact figure, but it’s well beyond the scope of lifespan as we understand it in modern times. I’m not sure how the “300 lives of men” thing in the movie was supposed to mesh with what happened in the book, given the knowledge that Men of the day lived longer than our modern standard.
Gandalf’s vaunted Elvish sword was Glamdring, the Foe-Hammer as it was called in the tongues of men, and it was designed and enchanted especially for killing goblins and their ilk. It could not be more fitting for Gandalf to use any other weapon against them. In The Hobbit, the goblins recognized Gandalf’s sword instantly and they ran from it (from the sword!) in fear; the goblins even had their own name for it, Beater. Hijack, complete with suitcase of money and in-flight parachute drop out of the cargo ramp: The Foe-Hammer is the name of the dropship in the Xbox-PC game Halo. The software company, Bungie, enjoys naming things after legendary swords. cf Durandal.
Could be. Overheard conversation of the orcs hunting Frodo the RoTK seemed to imply these guys remembered the siege of the Barad-dur back at the end of the second age.
JRRT never did resolve the origin of orcs and whether they were inherently evil in his own mind. He later regretted having them be a corruption of elves. But he died before he could work out just what their origins were.
Not true. The Maiar, like the Valar, can also clad themselves in whatever shape or form they want, though their true form is lesser than that of the Valar. Many of them chose to be invisible to the Children of Ilúvatar. While in the company of Elves, Olórin, the name of Gandalf in his Maia form, often clad himself in the form of an Elf. And the Maiar have their own innate powers not necessarily derived through the Valar.
The Battle of Nanduhirion was the last battle in the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs, a war of vengeance fought after the Orcs, specifically one Azog, killed, beheaded, and branded Thror, the heir of Durin.
The Dwarves won the battle and most of the Orcs of Khazad Dum (Moria) were destroyed. However, they didn’t attempt to enter Khazad Dum, knowing that there was still nastiness inside.
There’s a couple of things that I wanted to point out on Whack-a-Mole’s question #8 - “How was Saruman beguiled to the dark side?” A lot of this is due to the influence of the Ring, which is a powerful corrupter. Even Gandalf, at the beginning of the book, says “I dare not take it, not even to keep it safe, unused. The wish to wield it would be too much for my strength.” (I believe the line in the movie is “Understand, Frodo, I would use the Ring out of a desire to do good, at first” or something similar.) Galadriel is also tempted. Most of Sauron’s power is in the Ring (which is why he is weakened in the first place), and the Ring has a will of its own, and wants to return to him. It’s a very dangerous thing.
Also, as wise and old as Saruman is, others wiser and older than he have been corrupted, both by outside forces and their own desires. Sauron himself was of the Maiar, until he was corrupted by Morgoth. And Morgoth was once the most powerful of the Valar, until his pride and ambition led to his corruption. Saruman was wise and powerful, but he was ambitious. I think that and the power of the Ring led to his downfall.
It’s interesting, though, that hobbits have a certain resistance to the Ring, and Gandalf spends far more time on hobbits than the rest of the wise. Maybe that helped to keep him from corruption, in a way.
It should also be noted that Aragorn’s longevity was rare among Men in the Third Age. The Numenorean line in Gondor had already been diluted and had dwindled to the point where their lifespans were on the order of modern humans. The Rangers of the North (the remnant of the Dunedain of Andor) were very few, but they had guarded the old blood more carefully and retained a greater part of the Numenorean longevity.
And Demostylus, what can we make of the fact that Elrond’s great-great-great grandfather is Eru? My g-g-g grandfather fought in the civil war, and I inherited his powder horn. I wonder what Elrond got?
Glamdring had a mate, named Orcrist–carried by one of the dwarves in the Hobbit, IIRC. Glamdring and Orcrist, Foe-hammer and Goblin-cleaver, Beater and Biter. Nice bit of word-play by The Master.
Yes, but unfortunately, there’s no simple, elegant, way to say “Melian was ancesress to both Aragorn and Elrond, distantly for the former, but middling close for the latter”. And your 65 or so intervening ancestors were only 43 intervening ancestors. Yes, I counted them.
Aragorn lived to be 210 years old, and I think that it’s stated somewhere that that was “thrice the normal span of Men”, or somesuch, which would put the normal span at 70, about the same as nowadays. He may even have chosen that number for the nice tidy multiple of “normal lifespan”: Like many his ancestors, when he just got too old and tired, he willingly laid himself down to accept the Gift of Men.
To expend on this: the Numenoreans were able to choose the time of their death. IOW, they could will themselves to die. Aragorn is the last person who is able to do this. After he dies, Arwen begins to pine away and dies soon thereafter.
6 Earendur I
7 Lindorie
8 Inzilbeth
9 Numendil
10 Amandil
11 Elendil
12 Isildur
13 Valandil II
14 Eldacar
15 Arantar
16 Tarcil
17 Tarondor
18 Valandur
19 Elendur
20 Earendur II
21 Amlaith
22 Beleg
23 Mallor
24 Celepharn
25 Celebrindor
26 Malvegil
27 Argeleb I
28 Arveleg I
29 Araphor
30 Argeleb II
31 Arvegil
32 Arveleg II
33 Araval
34 Araphant
35 Arvedui
36 Aranarth
37 Arahael
38 Aranuir
39 Aravir
40 Aragorn I
41 Araglas
42 Arahad I
43 Aragost
44 Aravorn
45 Arahad II
46 Arassuil
46 Arathorn I
47 Argonui
48 Arador
49 Arathorn II
50 Aragorn II
There’s 49 intervening ancestors whose names we know. But, Valandil I was born in 630, whilst Elendil was born in 3119. Allowing for 150 years between generations requires about 20 generations between Valandil I and Elendil, not the 4 listed above. That gives a total of something like 65 intervening ancestors.
Elrond also counts among his ancestors Olwe, Elwe, Beor and Marach, who were first generation “Children of Iluvatar” anyway.
And looking at my list above, it may be wrong in places. For instance, I see elsewhere that Elendur is listed as a son of Isildur, so if someone can do a better list, have at it.
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