What exactly did he say? Something that looks very like ‘the Scouring of the Shire’ has already been filmed - you can see it in Galadriels mirror during TFOTR. Until I read this thread, I figured the whole thing had already been filmed - we get a preview in TFOTR and we’d see the whole thing in ROTK.
On the 4 DVD version (which does not contain the same material as the 2 DVD version, amazingly) the director states specifically that the look in the mirror is the only shot people will see of the Shire burning.
They made quite a few decisions based on trying to keep the length reasonable, and it’s hard to fault them.
By the way, IMHO, the extra 30 minutes or so on the 4 DVD version – unlike many director’s cuts – are entirely valuable to telling the story.
Buy it.
No, surely not?! On re-reading TTT I kind of thought that they might cut him out completely, which would have been preferable to this! Faramir is good guy! He’s what Boromir should have been! Faramir was the one that should have been in the Fellowship, the only reason he wasn’t was because Boromir was older.
I can understand cutting things, like Faramir, entirely, simply because they have to get it all into the film, but can anyone explain to me why Jackson and his screenwriters (if he has them) would want to pervert something like this? What good can it possibly do?
N.
Just Some Guy, if they DO kill him off in TTT, the “cries of fandom” will be more than virtual: I will audibly boo in the theater. I mean, not showing the SOTS is one thing, but altering the books THAT badly is another.
It’s an add-on if you look at it from the point of, say, Aragorn. He has been restored to power as king of men. His destiny is fulfilled. But look at the entire story, from Bilbo the Burglar all the way to Frodo at Mount Doom, from the point of view of the Hobbits. They’ve been pulled into a world which they weren’t even aware of, taking part in events that shape the future of Middle Earth. For the story to be concluded for them, they need to return to the life they are familiar with.
It’s really two parallel stories, that of the great powers and people of Middle Earth, and also that of the simple, rustic Hobbits, caught up in something momentous, who, despite being pivotal to the success of the quest to destroy the ring, want nothing more than to go back to the Shire and live out their lives in peace.
Well, Faramir does take them captive…and there is a moment there where Frodo is unsure if Faramir will take the ring or not. A sort of joke, from Faramir’s part, asking if they believe he will now take the ring. Tense moment, then Faramir says he wouldn’t.
Perhaps that is what happens in the movie.
Yeah…as I understand it (and, I admit, speculate), he doesn’t actively try to get the Ring, like Boromir does. He’s tempted to do it, which is a valid interpretation of the book, I think; it’s probably played up in the movie.
To answer most of the questions about what is and is not in TTT, see the review links page at theonering.net. This will tell you quite a bit about Saruman, Farimir, Arwen etc.
More specifically:
FAQ Page 1
FAQ Page 2
FAQ Page 3
I, too, was a little put off by the impending ‘dark’ Faramir I went back and read the passages in TT that could have been dramatized as such. I get the impression that the interaction between Faramir and Frodo was more that a few lines of F:‘See, check this out - I want it you know you do - just like Bor…’ and F: ‘pretty, but not interested’. There is more of a story to be fleshed out by the screen writers. Certainly a temptation of Faramir, sprinkle in a little ‘what would daddy want, what would make daddy love me as much as Boromir?’ Denethor: ‘You’ll never be as good as your brother, who’s dead. I…have…no…son’. If a screen writer wanted to put heavy emphasis on the family dynamic, I would think this would be the likely place the audience would be introduced to it. Show the conflict with the family and within the character of Faramir, himself. Who does he ultimately answer to? PJ’s developing the characterizing of Denethor for his appearance in ROTK.
Frodo’s thoughts on Faramir in the book:
“Better mistrust undeserved than rash words. And the memory of Boromir, of the dreadful change that the lure of the Ring had worked in him, was very present to his mind, when he looked at Faramir and listened to his voice: unlike they were, and yet so much akin.”
Wait and see, I guess.
I think that a lot of the Faramir changes are a deliberate attempt by Peter Jackson to make the ring more malevolent. Having nearly everyone who is aware of the true nature of the One Ring show at least some degree of lust for this power helps play this out. This theme is also, I think, shown in the FotR where Gandalf never touches the ring a rare place where, I feel, PJ improved on the master. I was disappointed when the director’s commentary didn’t touch on this.
Let’s hope we’re not in the same theater.
My big problem with the books was the feeling of the ring’s malevolance didn’t come across very well. All the fear of Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel and the wise didn’t seem justified. It was never used to dominate anyone, except Gollum, and it didn’t even hold him very tightly. So where’s the great power and malice everyone is afraid of? So far Jackson has made the ring “whisper” and shown it fighting with Frodo for control. I thought Boromir’s “repentance” was one of the most mannequin-like performances I’ve ever seen in a film, but the buildup of Boromir’s tension was more evident in the film than the book.
I always said that if a person could capture the malevolance of the ring in a movie adaptation that they would have topped what Tolkien managed.(IMHO of course)
That having been said, the meeting of Aragorn and Eomer is one of my favorite passages in the books, if Jackson f***s that up I’m going to be pissed.
Enjoy,
Steven
I agree, and after how he f***ed up the meeting of Boromir, Aragorn and Narsil, I have very little faith
For what it’s worth, the question as to whether Saruman is killed or not is answered in this thread. I’d be willing to bet that Dante would also be willing to answer other questions posed in this thread.
I can only express my jealousy that someone has already seen the movie. 
Have you seen the trailer? There’s a clip of Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli surrounded by horsemen with drawn swords and someone (presumably Eomer) saying, threateningly, “A man, an elf, and a dwarf travelling together?” Or something to that effect.
Anyway, the scene is there.
Spoilers towards the end of thread
Saruman definiatly dies, but its not known how, and there is not SOTS. I am dissapointed but you’ve got to be realistic and understand this is a film not a book. I also think Christopher Lee was a good choice, and i believe the scene between his character Saruman and Gandalf when he is imprisoned in Orthanc will be excellent. Im really looking forward to Helms Deep, the Ents attacking Isengard, and in ROTK the battle of the Pelannor Fields and the Final Chapter when they march on Mordor, i think those two chapters are the best two in the entire books, the pathos, melancholy, heroism, bravery, friendship and sheer emotiveness is amazing, its just so involving.
Getting back to this point–remember that Saruman had also been “cast out” by Gandalf before he died, and so was as mortal and powerless as any other old man.
Besides, even though Saruman’s body dies, that isn’t exactly the end of him:
“To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved to nothing.”
Saruman could survive–in some fashion–getting his throat cut. His spirit would return to the West, just as Gandalf’s did. Except he was rejected. Whether he is actually annihilated, or if some part of him remains after the “mist” is blown away isn’t clear, but Saruman is at least reduced to a bodiless and impotent spirit.
Not necessarily. Saruman was still a Maia; Gandalf has no power to take that away. Saruman (and Gandalf, and Sauron as well) are basically a lesser order of angels. While their bodies can be destroyed, their spirits cannot be. Gandalf broke Saruman’s staff and threw him out of the order of Istari. Breaking the staff greatly lessened Saruman’s power, but he’s still a Maia. No one but Iluvatar can completely destroy the fea, or spirit of a being. Even Melkor still exists, albeit powerless and stuck in the Outer Void. Throwing Saruman out of the order of Istari was sort of a confirmation of Gandalf’s new power and status- he’s speaking for the Valar when he tells Saruman, in so many words, “You’re fired.”