Lowering the toilet seat for women - why?

[Fromage_A_Trois]

@Annie-Xmas

I live alone and I always put the toilet down before I flush. It avoids the “plume effect” and just plain looks better. Take a photo of yur toilet with the lid and cover up, with the lid down, and with the lid and cover down, and you’ll see what I mean.

Why is it necessary to take photos to see the difference? Can’t you see by just looking?

I think the difficulty a lot of guys (including me) have is not a question of the lid. Putting the lid down to prevent plumes, or save cats or whatever else you dangle over the toilet bowl, fine. But we’re talking about the seat - which does not diminish the possibility of plumes and cats much.

I’ve sat down on a toilet with the seat up before, when it was dark or I wasn’t paying attention. Once or twice. When I was about 7. I learned - check to see what you’re putting your naked arse on before you sit down. Sigh.

I think snailboy’s car analogy is a very good one - you both adjust the seat to where you want it to be. Everyone’s happy.

[Contrapuntal]

@Fromage A Trois

I think the difficulty a lot of guys (including me) have is not a question of the lid. Putting the lid down to prevent plumes, or save cats or whatever else you dangle over the toilet bowl, fine. But we’re talking about the seat - which does not diminish the possibility of plumes and cats much.

But you cannot put the lid down without putting the seat down.

[BlackKnight]

@Siege

Did you habitually look at the chair you’re sitting in before sitting in it? Do you habitually look at the chair you usually eat meals in, especially if the meal in question is breakfast and you’re half-awake?

Yes.

Have you never sat down in a familiar chair only to encounter an unfamiliar obstruction, say a cat or a book or something?

A few times, sure, when something is wedged between the cushions or into the corner. However, if my familiar chair had a hole in the center of it, not only would I notice it before sitting down, I’d be familiar with the fact that the chair had a hole in the first place.

[bouv]

@Sierra Indigo

The question I’ve always pondered is this - why do you need to lift the seat to pee, anyway? Because you were taught to do it that why, fine. But why? You lose an average of a couple of inches when the seat’s down compared to up, but the hole is still pretty damned massive. Is your aim really that bad?

On a more serious note, I prefer the seat down but don’t have a shit-fit when hubby leaves it up. I pee in the dark, but there’s usually enough light to tell if it’s down or up. Hubby’s usually pretty good about putting the seat back down again, most of the time.

It has nothing to do with aim. There is dribble. When first sdtarting and stopping, the pressure is low, and ther stream (or omstly, just some drops) can’t go far enough to aim properly. We already have to do a bit of leaning, and even then, it’s almost unavoidable to not get a litle bit of urine on the porcelin, if the seat is down, then that’s even more of a distance to try and lean, and let’s face it: we’re lazy. I’d rather get a bit of urine on the seat then lean more. But then, I’d almost always rather lift the seat than pee on it. Of course, I live alone, and therefore the seat is usually up anyways, so it’s a non-issue for me.

[Aangelica]

I second Seige’s experience.

I’ve lived alone (or with other women) for roughly 90% of my adult life. Before that I lived in my parents house where (as a matter of respect for my mother’s wishes) the seat went down. I am not at my best at 4am when rising to attend urgent bodily functions. This is a task I perform on autopilot, since I’m trying my best not to wake up fully. The goal is to interrupt my sleep as little as humanly possible.

When I’m in public - or in other people’s homes - or just actually awake of course I check before I sit. And I leave everything the way I found it. I have never had a rude surprise under any of those circumstances. But in my own home, 75% asleep shambling to the restroom without turning on the lights and attempting not to trip over the cats, I’m clearly not in full possession of my faculties. There’s enough ambient light in my bathroom to make out general shapes (i.e. I can tell generally where the tub and toilet and sink are), but not enough for a clear look, which I’m not capable of under those circumstances anyway (blurry sleep-vision, no glasses, and a choice between light-dazzlement and darkness). Besides, I’m in my own home, where experience has taught me it is safe to sit. This is even true as I live with my fiance - I am almost always the last person to use the throne at night. The only time I’m not is if he’s also risen in the night to tend an urgent need.

Which means that I only need to be worried about a mistakenly left-up seat if he’s managed to rise in the night without waking me to tend his business and then forgotten to put the seat down. Not a common occurence - I’m a light sleeper usually. My still-sleepy brain knows this - it’s all part of the habit of much repetition. It’s not like lots of thought and tactical planning are involved here. Getting up in the middle of the night to pee is something accomplished almost totally by long ingrained habit (at least for me - YMMV).

So it’s not like ladies get the icy-cold surprise a lot - it just makes a memorable impression. I think it’s happened to me a grand total of 3 or 4 times in my entire life.

The truth though, is that a lot of ladies aren’t necessarily so concerned about the seat issue as the underlying issue of courtesy. It’s a minor request - and most of us do phrase it in the form of a request (at least when we’re living with the gentleman in question - if we’re not, then common courtesy dictates you acceed to the request while in someone else’s home). And there are valid reasons for it - it’s not totally random and senseless. Plus, it relates to an event that happens multiple times daily - as opposed to one relating to something that isn’t a constant occurrence. Yet, when we make this minor request, an enormous number of “gentlemen” either behave as though we’d asked them to donate a kidney, start justifying fervently why Og intended the seat to be UP, or agree to do so and then attempt to weasel out later when we ask them why they’re not doing it.

Which leaves the lady in question (or so my experience has been) with the exciting feeling of a combination “You-think-I’m-a-demanding-bitch” and “I-asked-for-a-minor-favor-and-you’re-being-a-jackass”. Things often go south from there.

And, may I add, a big, hearty :rolleyes: to the folks that seem convinced that asking a minor personal favor of a loved one = demanding. To me (and a lot of other ladies), this seems like a minor favor, in the approximate league of “hey could you not use the soda cans we recycle as ashtrays” or “please rinse out dishwear used to contain milk and/or milk products in the summertime” or possibly “please don’t download things onto my computer” or “please don’t move the pile of paperwork on my desk - I know where everything is”. Not deserving of the drama and controversy

(As an aside, it’s not a topic of discussion in our house - nobody cares that much about the seat other than use of the lid as a Cat Defense Mechanism as our furballs are mightily enamored of the game of batting various toiletries off the counter with occasional hits into the bowl, including toothbrushes, makeup, perfume, toothpaste, bars of soap, etc.)

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

It seems like those who are arguing that the lid should always be down are contradicting the case for those women who are claiming to be in such a helpless, zombie state at night they it’s simply impossible for them to be responsible for their own asses in the bathroom. If the seat is always supposed to be down, then why aren’t women constantly sitting down on closed lids in the dark?

Are we arguing that both the lid and the seat should be down, or only the seat? If both are supposed to be down, then the case for female nocturnal zombification is nullified because they’d always be pissing on seat covers. If we’re saying that only the seat should be down, then all arguments about the “natural state” of the lid are just so much smoke.

I don’t think any women here would think it was discourteous for men to put the lid down, yet it allows for the same chance of mishap in the night and requires the same amount of work to adjust (actually, one could argue that it takes slightly more work to lift the lid than to lower the seat). So why is it considered rude to leave the seat up but not rude to leave the lid down. The way I see it, by leaving the seat up. we’re saving you work.

[Siege]

Actually, I’ve realized since posting this morning that I usually do turn the light on.

For me, the lid is seldom if ever down and most of my friends and family don’t put the lid down either. Therefore, for me, the assumed default configuration of a toilet is seat down, lid up. As I said, I live alone, therefore, unless I’m cleaning the toilet or accidentally knock the lid down, I have no reason to change that default configuration, and, when I’m done, I return the toilet to that configuration. If the configuration does change, especially if I find it’s changed in the dead of night and a gentleman hasn’t been in there to the best of my knowledge, I’d say I’ve got far worse problems than merely having to do with the seat being up. (I can picture it now: “Officer, not only did the intruder steal my computer and my money, he :dramatic gasp: left the seat up!” :eek: :fit of the vapors: )

As for you, o Seeker of Truth, I assure you that I am responsible for my own ass, not only in the bathroom, but wherever it (and I) happen to be!

CJ

[Fear_Itself]

@Contrapuntal

So you recommend shaving legs while sitting on the toilet lid, and not while sitting in the tub or on the side of the tub? I cannot believe that your reply is a serious one.

I didn’t recommend it, but I did observe that it commonly occurs.

A toilet lid is not designed as a chair.

Then why do women put those furry covers on them?

The seat of a proper chair is firmly attached to the back and legs. A toilet lid is attached with plastic fasteners that will fail under minimal horizontal pressure.

Oh baloney. Millions of people sit on closed toilet lids every day without destroying them. You just made that up.

I’m going to have to pull a** Dio** on you and ask for a cite for this.

Are you kidding? This whole thread is my cite! This comes up about twice a year, and for the most part, the guys line up on one side of the issue and the girls on the other. You are in the minority of male posters here.

You are simply wrong about this. All sorts of things fall into a toilet that either cannot be retrieved, or are not brought to the attention of a responsible adult. I say this as a man who does carpentry and home maintenace for a living. I don’t mind sticking my hand into toilet water, but I would prefer not to. What exactly is so difficult about replacing the lid? Why is it so hard to understand that there needs to be a barrier between you and the toilet water?

These are opinions followed by rhetorical questions, so I guess they don’t need a response. I know they don’t deserve one.

[EllisDee]

It’s almost like women never watch scary movies. How many times has a big nasty spider been lurking on (or worse – on the underside of) a toilet seat? How many times has a snake crawled up through the bowl looking for a dark, safe hole to make its home? In Hollywood, this is not very unusual.

I always close the lid. But I never sit down without checking out the equipment first. No bugs or reptiles ever get a chance to bite my ass while I’m sitting, I tells ya!

I must respond to this:

@Aangelica

The truth though, is that a lot of ladies aren’t necessarily so concerned about the seat issue as the underlying issue of courtesy. It’s a minor request - and most of us do phrase it in the form of a request (at least when we’re living with the gentleman in question - if we’re not, then common courtesy dictates you acceed to the request while in someone else’s home). And there are valid reasons for it - it’s not totally random and senseless. Plus, it relates to an event that happens multiple times daily - as opposed to one relating to something that isn’t a constant occurrence. Yet, when we make this minor request, an enormous number of “gentlemen” either behave as though we’d asked them to donate a kidney, start justifying fervently why Og intended the seat to be UP, or agree to do so and then attempt to weasel out later when we ask them why they’re not doing it.

The men feel the exact same way. It’s such a minor issue, so why can’t it ever go the man’s way? I grant you that’s a childish attitude. So the natural compromise is to always close the lid. This is not only minor, it’s also fair. But women still manage to have a problem with it. Women seem to be lacking in common courtesy when they fight this arrangement.

[moonstarssun]

We always keep the lid down when the toilet’s not in use. It keeps the cats from drinking out of it, keeps things from falling in, and just looks nicer. As far as going at night, we have a nightlight in our bathroom, and that seems to prevent problems for either of us.

[snailboy]

Let me ask you folks something. If women can’t even remember to check the toilet lid to avoid falling in, how are we supposed to remember to set it? Most of us have spent our lives without regard for where the toilet seat is when finished with the act. Women should know by now. Call me uncaring, but if you don’t care enough about falling in to check the toilet, I don’t care if you do either.

Another thing, saying you may touch the filth-covered porcelin bowl in checking is absurd. Assuming no one has ripped the seat off, it’s either up or down. You don’t have to check to see if it’s down. You can check if it’s up. Reaching for the back of the toilet, you can feel if the lid, the seat, or neither is up. You can assume what isn’t up is down. How difficult is that?

Third, just saying it’s a common courtesy isn’t going to cut it with me. I realize our culture has a lot of traditions which favor one gender. Some have a reasonable purpose. Some do not. I simply wanted to know which was the case with the toilet seat. If it’s a purposeless tradition, then concede that and move on. I’m a logical person and don’t like to do things that are pointless even if people think I’m a bastard.

@moonstarssun

As far as going at night, we have a nightlight in our bathroom, and that seems to prevent problems for either of us.

I was just about to mention that. A nightlight is bright enough to see what position the toilet seat and lid are in, yet dim enough not to blind you in the middle of the night. It may be a marriage saver, though I don’t know if it would be enough for all women.

[Contrapuntal]

@Fear Itself

Then why do women put those furry covers on them?

I suspect that furry covers are decorations. I have no idea what part a furry cover plays in identifying something as a seat.

@Fear Itself

Oh baloney. Millions of people sit on closed toilet lids every day without destroying them. You just made that up.

What does destroying the lid have to do with anything? I said the hinges are plastic and will fail under minimal pressure. Go look at your toilet lid. It is connected to the bowl with plastic fasteners. Are you suggesting I made that part up? Now grab the front of the lid with both hands and pull it sideways. See those fasteners moving? I could rip off a toilet seat with ease. Did I make that part up? Now go to any other properly designed chair in your house and try the same thing. See what I mean? The cover on a toilet is designed as a lid, not a seat.

@Fear Itself

Are you kidding? This whole thread is my cite! This comes up about twice a year, and for the most part, the guys line up on one side of the issue and the girls on the other. You are in the minority of male posters here.These are opinions followed by rhetorical questions, so I guess they don’t need a response. I know they don’t deserve one.

Oh, the thread is your cite, is it? Why does that sound familiar? Aldeberan, we barely knew ye…

You keep slinging figures around like “millions of people” and “most guys” with absolutely nothing to support them. This thread represents “most guys?” Maybe thirty people who self-select are some kind of representative sample? How about a cite for the millions of people, or something a little more scientific for the “most guys.”

What you referred to as “opinions” are actually accounts of experiences I have had. Questions you called “rhetorical” were serious. Please answer them if you are able.

[Fear_Itself]

@Contrapuntal

What does destroying the lid have to do with anything? I said the hinges are plastic and will fail under minimal pressure. Go look at your toilet lid. It is connected to the bowl with plastic fasteners. Are you suggesting I made that part up? Now grab the front of the lid with both hands and pull it sideways. See those fasteners moving? I could rip off a toilet seat with ease.

Look at the seat. It is held on with the same plastic hinges! Are you suggesting we should never sit to use the toilet? I can just imagine the Contrapuntal household: *“Dammit you kids, how many times do I have to tell you to get your little asses off the toilet seat, or it will explode!” * No wonder you want to keep the lid down; with a houseful of hovershitters, that gotta make a mess.

[Contrapuntal]

@Fear Itself

Look at the seat. It is held on with the same plastic hinges!

And is subject to zero horizontal stress, unless you are doing the boogaloo while perched on the throne. Under general use as a seat, the toilet lid is simply unfit to the task, especially when the sitter is wiggling about. Cite.

[Cheesesteak]

Even so, the lid is as well designed to sit on as the toilet seat itself, which is designed specifically to be sat on. Sure, it will break if you’re playing musical chairs, but it is arguably safer to use as a seat than the edge of your bathtub. All bets are off if your toilet seat/lid are already broken.

[tdn]

The resolution to the toilet seat debate is so simple, it almost feels silly to answer it.

Men: Put the seat down. It says how much you care and yet it costs you nothing. I dare you to find a cheaper or easier way to show your love.

Women: Look (or feel) before you sit. You don’t have to put the fate of your so-far dry behind into the hands of a lazy or thoughtless man. It’s quite empowering. And it costs you nothing. I dare you to find a cheaper or more effective way to stay dry.

Oh, and if touching the seat squicks you out, how do you feel about dipping your butt? Is that far more sanitary? But hey, it’s your choice.

As for the women who explained the reasoning behind leaving the seat down, that’s some fine logic. A masterful use of brain power. If we could only use that brain power–harness it somehow–then maybe we could channel it into some sort of awesome force to use in the betterment of all mankind. Something like, oh, let’s say “Me not want fall in. Me check.”

Lastly, I’m a little surprised that only one Doper in this entire thread bothered to check this very site for the 411 on the mythical plume.

[Contrapuntal]

@Cheesesteak

Even so, the lid is as well designed to sit on as the toilet seat itself, which is designed specifically to be sat on. Sure, it will break if you’re playing musical chairs, but it is arguably safer to use as a seat than the edge of your bathtub. All bets are off if your toilet seat/lid are already broken.

Actually it isn’t. The seat has a shallow bowl shape puts you in the correct position; facing forward. It also has small supports towards the front to help carry the load. The lid is gently rounded in the other direction, and has no front supports. If all you are doing is sitting face forward on the lid while remaining relatively still, I suppose it functions reasonably well as a seat. Is that the position one uses when shaving legs, or clipping toenails? No. Generally one is sitting across the seat, to make use of the gretaer freedom of motion, and changing position often. This stresses the near hinge toward the front of the toilet, and the far hinge toward the rear. It doesn’t take many times for this to loosen the hinges considerably, creating an unsafe seat.

[Kevbo]

I always close the lid.

If I only put the seat down, then the one time in 10,000 I forgot, Kevbabe would bitch: “You NEVER put the seat down”.

Since Kevbabe NEVER closes the lid, every time she finds it closed, it serves as an annoying reminder that I usually put the seat down.

[Anastasaeon]

@tdn

Lastly, I’m a little surprised that only one Doper in this entire thread bothered to check this very site for the 411 on the mythical plume.

That was me.

And I also took responsibility for falling in in the middle of the night (which has only happened twice in my lifetime), and gave another reason for asking for it to be closed, which was tidyness/aesthetics (but that’s a matter of taste), and other people have given great reasons, such as prevention of toiletries falling into toilet water… but all anyone wants to argue about is the damned seat and how stupid/not stupid people are for falling in. (Upon you the curse of a thousand whoopie cushions! May you never see one coming!) Or how it shouldn’t be used as a regular seat (I’ve never lost a seat to daily shaving, and my husband sits on it, too, if he wants to talk to me while I’m in the tub, and he uses it to trim his nails, too).
FTR, I have left the seat up the past couple of days, just to see what would happen. But of course, somewhere along the line, undetected by me, my husband has picked up on the fecal bacteria plume spray idea and I was the one who was asked to please put the lid down.
I’ve tried to be reasonable, anyway, and seeing it from another point of view. My husband made the final decision here, not me. I kept my mouth shut about it, and promised him that I would not question it if he’d rather have the seat up. And I still wouldn’t. But whatever reason I give, however reasonable it may seem to me and my husband, someone else will find a way to disagree with, and maybe call me demanding and sexist for good measure.
I don’t know, kids. I’m not one for “girls against boys” games. I don’t agree with some of the women here, but my cursed vagina and your cursed penes are keeping us from seeing this thing eye-to-eye.

[Fear_Itself]

@Contrapuntal

Actually it isn’t. The seat has a shallow bowl shape puts you in the correct position; facing forward. It also has small supports towards the front to help carry the load. The lid is gently rounded in the other direction, and has no front supports. If all you are doing is sitting face forward on the lid while remaining relatively still, I suppose it functions reasonably well as a seat. Is that the position one uses when shaving legs, or clipping toenails? No. Generally one is sitting across the seat, to make use of the gretaer freedom of motion, and changing position often. This stresses the near hinge toward the front of the toilet, and the far hinge toward the rear. It doesn’t take many times for this to loosen the hinges considerably, creating an unsafe seat.

Cite?