Man, give a Mac user a couple spikes and some wood, and he’ll have the cross up in no time.
I figured as much, but wanted to make sure I wasn’t being insulting and stuff 
after all you’re one of my fave dopers!
No problem, Canvas. And thanks—I certainly look forward to your posts too!
And ya see, I’ve had no problems installing Linux on anything I’ve tried. So I’m a bit perplexed when someone rags on modern versions of Linux for being any more complex than a Windows of a similar vintage. If anything, I think Windows is more complex to install (and certainly not as friendly to other OSes on the system).
Remember, if you just want to goof around with it, www.knoppix.net is a bootable CD that runs Linux off itself. It doesn’t install anything.
Bravo CNote.
The difference being this: PC users ignore the pro-Mac (“You’ll crash less!”) argument, whereas Mac users know they can’t top te PC user “Costs less, outperforms, and is totally customizable” argument.
Oh, my dear, not all of the PC users don’t “ignore” these comments—many of them dish out far more of these comments themselves. That’s what they do for sport, or because they are a pathetic, insecure loser. Not that I am saying that the OP was wrong in getting pissed. As Fenris said in his infamous thread, platform hijacks (on either side) are the sign of a pathetic loser. However, don’t pretend that this is one-sided.
And by the way, why don’t you mention “The PC has more games!” while you’re at it? That’s the zinger that gets me every time. Just crestfallen, i am, when I discover that my Mac can’t play as many games… :rolleyes:
Why do you assume that Mac users feel that these issues you cite are important to them? Many think that the extra cost is worth it (or ends up being more cost-effective in the end), many don’t want to customizetheir computers and therefore don’t give a flying shit about that, and most figure that the G5 “performs” just fine and do not fret over that issue either. ::shrug::
My only argument against Mac is that I’m a computer programmer, and my skillset lends itself to 95% of businesses, because they use what I know.
If I spent the time required to learn the intricacies of Mac design, my potential employer-pool would shrink unacceptably.
I do recognize that Macs are superior, but I (personally) feel it is moot due to the lack of users. (I’ll play games on a console.)
Thus back to my betamax analogy. We loved ours when we had one…but watching the rental selection shrink to extinction just sucked ass. Nobody in my family was happy with the quality of the VHS we replaced it with, but we were in love with the new selection and compatibility we enjoyed.
I love the fact the Gates unified the computing standard. When I first started programming, I tinkered with Commodore, PC, Apple, PC-Jr., Amiga, and a couple others I can’t remember at the moment. I eventually decided to stick with PC.
A couple years later, Windows 3.1 came out. After using Windows 2.0 (or whatever…might have been 1.0) I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Still nowhere near as good as a Mac, but light years ahead of what we had before.
A friend of mine was (and still is) a successful Mac programmer, (he created Ambrosia Software, if any of you Macheads have heard of it let me know what you think) and I told him in the early/mid 90s that Bill Gates would put Mac out of business. He laughed at me, saying “Mac makes computers, Microsift makes software…they don’t even compete with each other.”
While I was wrong about Microsoft putting Mac out of business, I do feel vindicated in the debate…I think Microsoft is the key reason that Mac marketshare is so low.
If I had a Mac, what would I use to create documents and spreadsheets? Could I email them to any business and have them be readable?
Am I being whooshed?
If not, the answer is yes. I exchange Word files between Mac and PC all the time with no problem. I can only assume that the compatability between other Mac/PC Office files are equally good.
I agree. Having studied and worked in the high-tech (computer) department of a college, I can say that not only is MS Office available for the Mac, but from what I’ve seen it looks like networking Macs and PCs together is common.
Not everybody does a lot of gaming, and they’re not the only reason to use a PC. Even as much as I despise Windows and its crashes/driver issues/bloat, etc. Almost everything I do on my computer I could probably do just as well on a Mac, except for my VB programming which of course confines me to Windows. 
I mean games aren’t the only reason.
- He Who Doesn’t Preview :smack:
Ambrosia software makes great Mac, and now, PC games. The EV line of games are one of the best games available for either platform. It’s good to see a small, independent company release good software, especially in the gaming market.
So they’re the ones who did Uplink! I played a demo of that game quite a while ago–on the PC, no less. It’s not my type of game, but I thought it was very well done nonetheless. If that’s the kind of game that originates on the Mac, I ought to look more closely at Mac games.
Excel actually started out as a Mac program.
That’s either BS or FUD.
As a computer programmer (25+ years experience, 15 years getting paid for it), I can state simply that most programming jobs are not platform-dependent – if you know the concepts behind software development, have mastered a few key languages, and can spot deficiencies in an algorithmic design, you’ve got 75% of the market right there. The only jobs that require platform-specific experience are either low-end GUI work or quick-n-dirty hacks for penny-ante employers. If anything, a programmer who only knows Microsoft Visual C++ is worth less than a programmer who knows C++ on a variety of environments, because the latter has shown he can adapt to new environments easier and doesn’t need his Microsoft-familiar training wheels to be productive.
(On my standard, no-frills-added Mac right now, I’ve got access to C, C++, Perl, a half-dozen scripting shells, Java, and Pascal. Not to mention trivially easy access to Javascript, JSP, SQL, Apache, PHP, Struts, X11, and the entire library of UNIX and Linux software and developers tools. If you think I’m hobbled in my ability to find programming work, you’re seriously deluded. 
)
Putting aside the matter of MS Office for the Mac, there’s this common standard call PDF you may have heard about. One of the nice things with the Mac is that every] program can write to PDF, so even if you use a Mac-exclusive program like Appleworks to compose your documents and spreadsheets, your receivers don’t need it to see your stuff.
(And, yes, Appleworks will open your friend’s MS Office files, so you can dink with their stuff as well)
Hear, hear. I’ve used Slackware, Mandrake, and SuSE in the past, but I was pretty impressed with Knoppix when I downloaded it the other day.
It detects all your hardware and boots straight to a KDE desktop, which is enough like Windows for anyone to find themselves at home wth it, and it has a ton of apps right there to use. If you’ve ever used Microsoft Office, you already know how to use OpenOffice.
Of course, any GUI program will involve low-end GUI work at some point, and most Mac users aren’t going to want an application with no GUI.
Does the Mac have equivalents of RAD tools like Delphi, VB, or .NET’s Windows Forms?
Heh. Games.
FUD? What’s that?
Training wheels? Condescending asshole…
I specialize in Visual Basic and database design for small to mid-level applications. Most of my projects are either MS Access front/back (small), VB front/Access back, or VB front/SQL Server back. I also have a lot of experience in FoxPro / Visual FoxPro. Visual FoxPro and Visual Basic are languages I can do in my sleep, and databases that aren’t normalized are, to me, an affront to all that is good in the world.
I did do one project in the early 90s for a Mac platform…using FoxMac to customize an SBT Accounting system. I hated it and felt confused for most of that project.
I’ve also done extensive work in Office integration with VB and VFP. A typical “print” dialogue in one of my apps will offer the following options:
- Dropdown of available printers
- PDF document (using postscript/Distiller, usually)
- Excel spreadsheet
- Word document
This greatly simplifies the lives of the people who use them and need to send results to other businesses. On my more recent projects, those other businesses were large financial institutions. Funny how all of them were PC-based, and specifically requested Excel spreadsheets over PDFs. (Name any large bank…we dealt with them.)
So you tell me…was what I said BS and/or “FUD”? Or am I just a penny-ante hack? Superiority complex, much?
Did I make any comment about programmers in general? I believe I said that my complaint was that my pool of potential employers would shrink. My only professional experience of note (that could help me get a job) involve MSDN, and the tools that come with it. (I can use anything on MSDN, but am only an expert in VB and VFP.)
I notice that you listed none of my specialties in your “Macs do everything” list. I also program C, C++, and Pascal, but predominately on a hobbyist level. (Mostly to analyze craps strategies in C. And I can, but never would, use Pascal. I’ve never in my life even heard of professional development in Pascal. But I see it all the time in computer classes.)
Nice way to be a condescending dickhead. PDF? No, what’s that? Kudos to your precious platform…it must be so nice that every Mac program works with PDFs. I sure wish all Windows programs could. Oh wait, that’s right, PDFs are implemented as a printer driver, so every program that will ever be written supports PDF. Go figure.
Several people have asked if I was kidding with the compatibility question. I assure you I have virtually no experience with Macs…it was a serious question. PDFs are not a particularly attractive solution to the compatibility problem. (Ever try to do some quick totalling on a PDF of a spreadsheet?)
I guess MS makes a Mac version of Office. That’s fine. But if most of the business operations use Excel, PowerPoint, and Word, then why, exactly, is a port to Mac better than a pure Windows environment?
Cool, good to know.
Thanks for the info, oh condescending one. I do wonder how Mac users got that reputation?
But hey, I’m just a wannabe who still needs my MS training wheels. Fuck you, you Mac-loving cockknocker. I never disparaged Macs in this thread, but I now completely agree with the OP regarding Mac users. Asshole.
Hmmm…poster’s remorse? You should have seen my reply before I toned it down. Oh well.