[QUOTE=Fretful Porpentine]
Well, I really don’t like OAOW’s actions, including the unvote; my sense is that a Townie who sincerely believed storyteller was a Wolf would leave the vote where it was.
Vote One and Only Wanderers
[/QUOTE]
Fretful Porpentine, did you not see OAOW’s reasoning, that keeping storyteller alive could yield information? Does that change your opinion at all?
[QUOTE=Blaster Master]
Huh?
What I said was it’s exactly what I’d expect him to say if he’s lying. IOW, there’s no way, based upon his claim, to discern whether he’s telling the truth or lying. Hence, the risk is too serious.
Now, seeing that I JUST made the point about why you unvoted him and this obviously wasn’t your logic since you’re FOSing me for it, I can’t see any other motivation for your behavior besides scum, so…
Vote One And Only Wanderers
[/QUOTE]
This horse is long dead.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
Folks -
I am leaving work in fifteen minutes; I may check the game when I stumble in from rehearsal tonight but chances are that will be after midnight and I will not be in any kind of intellectually useful condition. Tomorrow I am not permitted near any electronic devices of any kind all day, and will have rehearsal again tomorrow night.
This will probably be my last post until Thursday morning.
I am left with a choice: leave my vote where it is, or switch it to Wanderers. My own experience over the last few hours has provided an object lesson in seizing on a single statement - no matter how evidently revealing - as a definitive scum tell, so I’m inclined to back off Fretful for the moment. Wanderers, on the other hand, engaged in a series of behaviors that were individually and collectively scummy.
So it’s really not much of a choice at all.
unvote Fretful Porpentine
vote One and Only Wanderers
[/QUOTE]
Storyteller’s absence yesterday and today is very bad. I would have liked to have heard his opinions on OAOW’s motivation. One might even call storyteller’s absence convenient.
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
I don’t really like how OaoW is acting, re: storyteller. I’m not sure how I feel about the role claim myself because it does seem like whenever someone role claims, it’s never a boring vanilla role, but some pivotal role.
But I’m going to vote One and only Wanderer
[/QUOTE]
Nothing specific here. Freudian Slit, you need to state your reasons explicitly!
[QUOTE=RoOsh]
RE: On The Fine Art of Storytelling: Part Two
I’m sorta irked at you, Story, you sorta stole my thunder. But I suppose that’s what I get for being away all day toDay- I’m denied being able to claim my ideas came first (as they came while I was reading the thread and beFORE Story did his business at all. But all you’ve got for that is my Word. So we’ll move on).
My notes BEFORE you claimed weren’t much- but I was taking them.
And Post #282 pinged me (since I was still in Vampire Hunting mode).
I disliked the idea of killing the wolf first over the Vamp. It’s not a popular idea, but I had it down, and I noted it when I first saw it. As it just seemed… too simple. He doesn’t consider the idea of Wolves with abilities, and it just pinged me a little. Not much but a ping.
But we continue on and I had another note.
Post 330:
-This was an UNNECESSARY post. Honestly, **Story ** SAID just two posts above that he’d claim before 5pm. It was almost 2pm when he said that, and it’s not a “magic bag” if the WAIT period is only 3 hours. So I was asking- what’s the point of Wander’s post there then? All you’re doing is kicking a downed man, and just spreading dirt on a dude who could be Townie or Scum. Why kick the dirt on his grave for something as little as 3 hours? To me, it felt like you were already trying to set us up for disbeliving the claim- and hoping that Story wouldn’t one up you by quick posting as he’d do in 333.
But that Post 330 struck me as INCREDIBLY Scummy- because what’s the townie motivation for hurrying up a post by 3 hours? A scum isn’t going to “speed up” his post just for you really, unless its a set up (Yes, story, i’m not giving you a free pass- you scummy bastards!). But again, that post was just crap- it was just goading a person to post, and it’s fine when it’s down to try to provoke Scum (As molefan did to Darth in Batman- but that post of his took HOURS to make), the post you made looked sloppy and didn’t look like it took a lot of thought. It read to me as just kicking dirt on an already condemned man’s grave.
Most Uncool, Wanders, Most Uncool.
—Hmm… I’ve gone off track on this post (it was supposed to talk about Story, but I haven’t. So lemme go make a post on **Story **FIRST, then post this one—
Back I’ve noted there’s been some posts after my 2nd big post. But I want to finish up these thoughts before I read them. So consider this as up to date as up to my Post on Vampires and knowing what i’ve said in the Story post from here on out.
Anyways, back to **Wanders**.
**Post 333:** This is a post that surprised me. I didn't expect it of Story- him role claiming early. It was QUICK (made like less than 15 mins after **Wander**'s provoked him), but it was sorta a meh post. There's no content in it. And I had to wonder if story is just cracking under the strain or if this is a ploy- because I myself know how it sucks to be prodded by the citizens when you're a power role and forced to role claim.... So i know it could happen to anyone. AND the post was quick and to the point- so its not like Wanders may have been hoping to smudge up story while he didn't post- the fact that story posted so early IS a point in his favor of things.
However, my worry: COULD **Story **AND **Wanders **have cooked this up? (Yes, this is because you're you **Story**- and Bussing a scum to get Townie cred is 100% YOUR FAMOUS M.O. from M2). If it is, well there is a safe way to deal with this: I have two suspicious players- one claims cop, the other perhaps being scummy to begin with, but with the added fear that the Scum may be bussing him to get credibility for the cop role)- simple solution- We lynch the Non-Cop and see what he is. If he's scum, that's a point for Story, but i won't trust him just yet. If we get 2-3 DAYS of no one else counterclaiming Story as him being Scum (not just counterclaiming him as a Cop- there is a difference between "Hey! I'm a Cop! and "Hey, I'm a Cop and I got a SCUM result for him!" sorta deal).
So again, I'm paranoid, but I wanna take the safe route- which is keep an eye on **story**, but trust him a bit more than **Wanders **right now.
Then came **Post 337:**
AGAIN with the smudging. So you don't believe him- I get it, but really? Why the confidence in being against taking precautions or erring on the safe side? It's what puzzled me. As sure there's aggression as a Townie, and then there's just outright disbelief and having tunnel vision.
BUT then in **Post [349](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9821125&postcount=349) **: You go an UNVOTE **Story**. He didn't really ADD anything in his "clarification" post. He still pointed but he could be blocked by scum. He just sorta gave his consent that he understood it if the Town lynched him toMorrow anyways. THAT'S ALL it took to move you to unvote? It just... smells like backpedaling to me.
especially your suggestion of: "*he is a cop and gets no inv, we lynch him and know for sure there is a RB"*
-THERE ARE Better ways than just blinding lynching him toMorrow no matter what! Just go and read up on the earlier posts on what to do with Two Cops, or if we have a Cop vs. Cop WIFOM! I really didn't like your Vamp vs. Wolf voting idea, and I don't really like your setting yourself on a track that could lead to a real cop dying just because its the right thing to do. Yes, we need more information, but that doesn't just mean we should go out and kill **Story **Day 2.
**
In Summary:**
It's for those posts 282. 330. 337. 349:
Those posts are the big ones that I REALLY didn't like.
That plus the fact that my previous suspect (who I still am suspicious of, but dont' think he's the scummiest of the Day toDay) is asking to hear from you more, just makes me feel right about this:
**Unvote Sach
Vote One And Only Wanders**
**
Extra Thoughts on Story:**
What FEEDS this fear of you bussing **Wanders **is then this post: [343](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9821038&postcount=343)
by you **Story**, where you steal my thunder and cast the suspicion for **Wonders**. Here i was following along and being proud that I knew who i was gonna vote for and you advocate looking at him (thus setting off my paranoia on your ScumBusseryHistory). It just means you're thinking the same things I'm thinking. But I still think there's a chance you could be scum. But you're not the SCUMMIEST for toDay.
As for **Wander**'s** Post [357](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9821270&postcount=357) **: Since it could be applied to me as well, I'll answer it from my point of view:
I think you're scummy for pressing him. I think Story could be scummy with his claim. However, your motives and actions on the WHOLE for toDay, stand out to me AS MORE scummy and suspicious. I will however see how he does with his Claim, you on the other hand, I feel are more suspicious toDay with your other actions and posts moreso than Him.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I agree with Roosh's theory, but he has one and he explained it. I do think it would be kind of funny if both storyteller and OAOW are scum and storyteller blew up at OAOW expecting to be lynched himself to give cover to OAOW. But I find that scenario doubtful. Fun to think about though.
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore]
It seems to me that the whole issue with storyteller basically boils down to he is either scum false claiming or the real deal. The thing is though, false claims seem to happen very rarely at best. There was the mason false claim with Idle and zuma, and Mad from last game, and not much else. (I'm not really counting Ryjae from last game, since that wasn't really a false claim so much as it was the only thing he could say other than giving up.) Therefore, it seems more likely than not that story is telling the truth. This leads me to take a closer look at anyone that gives such a claim a hard time. In this case, that person is OAOW. Others have expressed suspicion, like Blam, but are willing to accept the claim provisionally. This seems like the prudent choice. But OAOW has been on the offensive for quite a while regarding the claim. Yes, he unvoted story, but even in the post he did you can see him laying the groundwork for more attacks/suspicion on story tomorrow, assuming story survives the Night. I can only see two good reasons for this sort of attitude. Either story is lying and OAOW is the real constable, in which case the skepticism is understandable. I don't think I agree with the tack he is taking if this is the case though, so I'm not sure I buy it. Or OAOW is scum, and is trying his hardest to get the constable lynched or at least disbelieved.
I know that there is a third possibilty, where OAOW is vanilla town or some non-constable power role, and simply feels that story is lying. I just don't think this option is that likely considering the way the events went when taken as a whole. Therefore I feel comfortable at this time with voting for him.
**Vote OAOW**
[/QUOTE]
Please explain why you just don't think the option that OAOW is vanilla town and thinks storyteller is lying is not plausible. What is your reasoning for thinking that way?
[QUOTE=Koldanar]
Ok, I want to make a few comments on things that have grabbed my attention, as well as some of our 'issues' that have popped up.
On **story's** claim : At first glance, I really don't trust it. I've seen him do some damn fine things during a game, but it doesn't preclude him from making a slip. It could just be a quick cover for a mistake; however I don't really see any evidence (or anything I can truly putforth a good motivation argument about) to make a case this way. Suspicious, yes. Voteworthy, no.
**OAOW** : I like the case here. Initially, back in post #220, I was pinged a little when he? (Correct, yes?) removed a vote for Cat and then quoted Cat as a reason to vote Shadow. Then, in post #296, switches vote again very quickly with almost no case stated beyond calling it a slip. Everyone else that caught the 3 instead of 3 to 5 (as is claimed by story) pointed a finger and demanded explanation. OAOW voted immediately with little to no discussion. Agression combined with almost no justifications before people started voting for him makes him, in my mind, the best target today.
**Vote One And Only Wanderers **
One other thing I wanted to consider; back in post #332, **Pollux Oil** makes a note about WF Tomba's post that seemed to say alot but said nothing. Sometimes posts like this don't sit with me well...it always appears to me as a scum trying to hide the fact that there is nothing to say here.
[/QUOTE]
OAOW addressed the issues with your vote reasoning. Cat was an early day random vote. I don't think you can validly hold that against OAOW.
Why do you feel aggression is a scum tell? Why do you feel scum are more likely to be aggressive than Town?
[QUOTE=Hal Briston]
The hell? I made a nice, long, substantive post (with a vote) yesterday, but it would seem that it became hamster chow without my realizing it. Crap.
Well, the short version of it was my suspicion that **OAOW** played **storyteller** to the hilt, his actions simply *reeked* of a scum ploy to me, and it ended with:
Vote **OAOW**
Now that I've got that back on the record, I'm going to catch up on what's happened since then. Updates/revisions to follow.
[/QUOTE]
Has Hal said anything past this vote?
And I'm still shocked that Hal would think scum would do anything that reeks. Historically, have scum behaved that way? Do you really expect scum to behave that way? What benefit was OAOW trying to leverage by acting so reekingly scummy?
[QUOTE=Darth Sensitive]
I think that I'm going to:
**Vote OAOW**
The hammering of **story** just twinged me. I think that some suspicion is only natural, but I think that not giving him a chance to show himself as twon is bad.
I'm late to leaving. Adios!
[/QUOTE]
Again, convenient bandwagon joiner.
What did OAOW do to prevent storyteller from showing himself as Town? storyteller's claim is storyteller's action, not OAOW's.
Gah!
