[QUOTE=Zsofia]
NETA - Assuming all groups exist (I know, I know), for example, nobody wants to night kill a vampire. Everybody with a night kill is going to be afraid of that and wants to lynch the vamp instead. Why wouldn’t scum be active in discussions trying to find other scum roles, for example, that could be harmful to them?
[/QUOTE]
You’ve defiantly got a point here. I didn’t think about the needs of the groups to get each other killed. It will affect how I do my analysis but for the first Day I think we still need to force people to post so we have something to base that later analysis on. If we allow people to hide in the background until the end the will have more info to base their stories. Right now none of us know anything about the other groups so getting them to post their thoughts may get them to reveal something.
Shadow Facts, imagine this. Imagine that there are twenty players, and all of them are posting useful, reasonable posts, all at least ten a Day, some even 40 a Day. Now, imagine trying to sort through all that on re-read.
Pretty hard, huh.
Lurkers, in my opinion, have a useful purpose–they simplify the endgame. And since mafia is a horriblly complex game (and that’s what I love about it), any endgame simplification is a welcome relief.
And I figure I will get my head handed to me but what the hey.
I can only speak from my personal experience. In Simpletown if the town would have merely “lynched the lurkers” seventy-five percent of the scum would have been caught.
I totally agree that this as a single minded strategy makes little sense. But in the abscence of some sort of reasoning to the contrary my inclination will be to eliminate non contributory game players.
Shoot this is supposed to be a game of participation. If you aren’t contributing then you aren’t playing. Imagine Risk where your opponents merely passes each turn. Quite a bore, IMHO. I mean you will win eventually but cripes…
Another flippin’ two cents.
I guess we move on at this point unless this horse hasn’t been flayed long enough to be buried.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
There is a minimum post count in this (and in most) games <snip>
[/QUOTE]
I forgot about this earlier. As far as I can tell, the only requirement in this game is one vote. So, I guess you are correct, there is a minimum posting requirement of 1 per Day, as long as that 1 is a vote. That’s a tough bar to hurdle
[QUOTE=pedescribe]
Shadow Facts, imagine this. Imagine that there are twenty players, and all of them are posting useful, reasonable posts, all at least ten a Day, some even 40 a Day. Now, imagine trying to sort through all that on re-read.
Pretty hard, huh.
Lurkers, in my opinion, have a useful purpose–they simplify the endgame. And since mafia is a horriblly complex game (and that’s what I love about it), any endgame simplification is a welcome relief.
[/QUOTE]
Now imagine twenty players, all of whom post 3 posts per Day. Try to find the scum from that. There’s got to be some kind of middle ground we can agree is a useful level of participation. But really, I think we’ve played out this discussion to the end of its usefulness. I’ll shut up about it now, I promise.
[QUOTE=storyteller0910]
(snipped)
I have never seen a vote analysis, taken on its own, generate more than complete speculation regarding the alignment of the players involved. Scum will vote for Scum; Scum will vote for Town. Town will vote for Town; Town will vote for Scum. This is true in every game, but is of course especially true in this game. Those vote counts might be cold, hard, and inalterable, but they are also useless as anything but a starting point. Tell me who voted for who, sure, but then tell me why. That’s what matters; that’s where the bad guys get caught.
(snipped)
[/QUOTE]
Well, maybe I should have qualified my statements.
The importance of vote analysis, by itself, grows as the Days turn. Which means, obviously, that the first couple of Days it doesn’t yield very good information.
Good voting analysis depends on context. As more and more people are outed (by lynching, night kill or otherwise), certain votes will provide more information about the individual (voting switches, “protective” votes of team-mates, voting patterns, etc.)
As the Days pass, it grows more and more difficult to really do in-depth analysis of all the posts of players. Particularly in games played on this board. You have more and more white noise floating around (speaking of which, isn’t **Roosh **around? )
In other words: I agree with you. However, during more than one game I have seen the “pure post” analysis flourish during the latter Days of the game. And I have always felt that style is far more to the advantage of scum than anything else.
[QUOTE=Zsofia]
Power roles tend to try to stay under the radar, too - I was the doctor in Doperville, and I was trying to not draw too much attention to myself, and then I got night killed. Of course, in that game the scum knew everybody who was scum, so they knew I wasn’t scum and had to be under-the-radar town (along with one other poster, IIRC), so they nailed me, correctly. But if we start lynching low-lyers, we may force people into role-claims too early and shoot ourselves in the foot.
[/QUOTE]
But if I recall correctly you were barely in the top three to start our discussion on hit targets.
Truly, I was drunk as hell and flipped a coin and you came up. That’s why I suggested your whack. The rest of the thinking faction appeared to say what the heck since it was between you and FD. Guess the overdose of tequilla made me sound less unreasonable than normal.
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Well, maybe I should have qualified my statements.
The importance of vote analysis, by itself, grows as the Days turn. Which means, obviously, that the first couple of Days it doesn’t yield very good information.
Good voting analysis depends on context. As more and more people are outed (by lynching, night kill or otherwise), certain votes will provide more information about the individual (voting switches, “protective” votes of team-mates, voting patterns, etc.)
As the Days pass, it grows more and more difficult to really do in-depth analysis of all the posts of players. Particularly in games played on this board. You have more and more white noise floating around (speaking of which, isn’t **Roosh **around? )
In other words: I agree with you. However, during more than one game I have seen the “pure post” analysis flourish during the latter Days of the game. And I have always felt that style is far more to the advantage of scum than anything else.
[/QUOTE]
Yeh. Look at the final day of Doperville when bufftabby switched her vote at the last second to create a coin flip.
story is right. Voting don’t mean shit unless it is analyzed in a larger context, but there is still value. Votes create fixed data points. Posts merely suggest an area in which to focus.
Fixed data points coupled with a general area equals scum kill.
IMHO, lurkers in the early game won’t hurt all that much - with so many people firing off posts, a lot of people don’t feel the need to chime in with just a “me too”, or they find the sheer volume of discussion overwhelming.
Of course, it would behoove the lower-volume posters to crank up participation as the Days go by.
In Doperville, the four scum, out of 14 players, were ranked #1, #4, #6, and #10 in post counts. Scum made up 28% of the population, and contributed 40% of the posts (not including mod-posts). Peekercpa, #1, contributed 19%, for the record. (oh, looky, he is #1 in this game so far, as well!)
[QUOTE=CoG888]
In Doperville, the four scum, out of 14 players, were ranked #1, #4, #6, and #10 in post counts. Scum made up 28% of the population, and contributed 40% of the posts (not including mod-posts). Peekercpa, #1, contributed 19%, for the record. (oh, looky, he is #1 in this game so far, as well!)
[/QUOTE]
Good point. And in Simpletown I was probably close to the top as well and I was a … Drum roll … MASON.
All I am trying to say and I’ll speak slowly is that participation is a key component to this game. If you are not participating what is the point?
It is interesting to see how many people are against a Day 1 role claim in this game. Generally because they seem to think that it will leave the all the town power roles opened to be picked off by the scum.
I disagree, I think a Day 1 role claim is a bonus for the town.
It fixes the scum to a role. Everyone is going to claim at some point, it’s a game of power roles after all.
Unless all the scum are going to mass claim as scum, they will pick town roles to hide behind. Otherwise they open themselves out to being picked off by the other scum factions.
The undead faction (if they exist) absolutely cannot afford to claim truthfully at this point in time. Think about it. If they claim they will be the faction wiped out as an easy target through lynch and Night Kill, after all no-one likes a Vampire.
Picking a town power role for the scum is not going to be easy, I want to remove the choice they have from later in the game when they can pick or choose which role seems appropriate. A better shot is to force them to claim now without any information about pro-town roles.
We will not lose town members as badly as everyone thinks. Look at it, we have several possible pro-town roles that can protect, redirect, curse and survive Night Kills. If the scum go after the town, we can make it very costly for them to do so. The other scum do not have those abilities. Not only that, but several of the scum will claim town and they will be in the firing line as well.
Now, stop thinking this is just another normal game of Mafia, look at the setup and think about it.
Will some of the town lie about their powers?
Possibly. But remember, if you are going to do so, ensure that if you decide to truthfully claim afterwards, you can back it up with your pro-town actions. And don’t forget you are likely to be joined by a lot of scum trying to hide as well.
As for a roleclaim, I’m not looking for people to reveal their PM’s, I 'm just looking for people to say what they are. I can see PM’s being brought out when people claim at the end of Day.
So, I will ask again, what do people think about roleclaiming on Day 1.
Possibly. But remember, if you are going to do so, ensure that if you decide to truthfully claim afterwards, you can back it up with your pro-town actions. And don’t forget you are likely to be joined by a lot of scum trying to hide as well.
[/QUOTE]
NO! If we do decide for a mass claim at any time during the game, pro-town roles should absolutely NOT lie. How are we to distinguish between the scum and the town if townies lie?
CIAS, still not buying it. And, I find it odd that you are pushing so hard for a role claim. Don’t you remeber Batman? If Hal Briston (IIRC) had gotten everyones role, the game would have been over.
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers]
NO! If we do decide for a mass claim at any time during the game, pro-town roles should absolutely NOT lie. How are we to distinguish between the scum and the town if townies lie?
Lynch All Liars!
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think so, somehow. I really don’t think it is in the best of interests of the Witches (should they exist) to out themselves. However, they are capable of proving their roles later on. Same goes for the Freemasons (should they exist) in that it only makes sense for one or two of them to come forward and the rest to hide. The scum would certainly want everyone to tell the truth as it makes their job easier in spotting the power roles they would like to neutralise.
I suggest you read what I posted again.
Sorry storyteller, this time the town lying is beneficial
[QUOTE=Drain Bead]
Are we even allowed to quote role PMs in this game?
[/QUOTE]
Yes we are allowed to quote role PM’s in this game.
[QUOTE=brewha] CIAS, still not buying it. And, I find it odd that you are pushing so hard for a role claim. Don’t you remeber Batman? If Hal Briston (IIRC) had gotten everyones role, the game would have been over.
I’m just not seeing the advantage.
[/QUOTE]
I do remember the Batman game. This is not it. This is the Conspiracy Game.
So what disadvantages are there in a mass roleclaim then?
So what disadvantages are there in a mass roleclaim then?
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=brewha]
CIAS, I’m fully against a mass role claim. With separate scum factions, they are almost as much in the dark as the town is. I’m banking on some misguided cross fire killings at night. Maybe we can get scum killing scum.
If all of the town role claims, that will give the scum easy targets for night kills.
[/QUOTE]
The biggest disadvantage is that it’ll make the scum’s choices easier.
So you want a mass roleclaim, wher we are expecting scum AND some town to lie? Not seeing the advantages of that. The roles that liars will have to go for would be the ones we pressured (and the scum would be able to pick NK’s from this pool as they would know their own members), so we would end up forcing role claims from the witches anyway.
In my view, we either claim fully with all town being truthful, or we don’t bother.
[QUOTE=brewha]
The biggest disadvantage is that it’ll make the scum’s choices easier.
[/QUOTE]
Will it?
Why, what are scum going to claim?
If they claim their scum roles, they will be picked off by the other scum factions who claim as town. That leaves a larger claimed town base and a smaller claimed scum base who will, of course, be killed off leaving a three way between the remaining factions.
Not very beneficial for that scum faction in that case.
But, I’m relying on Pleo to have some type of game mechanism to prevent such a strategy from working.
If it’s a concensus that we do a mass claim, I will go along with it. But, I still fear it would somehow come back and bite us in the ass - but, I’m not sure how.
