Oh, and I am still noodling the mass role claim. But for now Not at this time
Due to my experiences and beliefs about my own “slip” in a previous game that some of you may recall, the best I can do with the whole Nanook thing is consider it a null situation, and I will not be voting for Nanook at this time, nor will I be going after anyone who is going after him (again, at this time). Even though I’d bet my next paycheck that there are some undead cabal wolves on the bandwagon. I just can’t tell which ones. There sure seem like a lot of “me too” votes on their (which I don’t like) but with only a small amount of post analysis to be done, I can’t really expect each of you to have a unique and original justification for your votes.
The mass claim proposal from CIAS also is not something I find suspicious, I just don’t think it is a good idea, for reasons I have previously stated. No mass claim. But, again, I’m not inclined to go after the people who do suspect CIAS either.
So, I shall be holding onto my vote for now, and watching you all like a hawk.
I haven’t re-read the thread thoroughly enough to decide on an FoS or vote, but I wanted to chime in and note that I oppose the idea of mass roleclaims.
Aside from the fact that they make the doctor’s job much harder by way of introducing oodles and oodles of high-profile and juicy targets, they would suck away a huge amount of time: I think it’s reasonably likely that most, if not all of the scum would lie, and it would take such an immense amount of time testing and evaluating each claim in turn that the 75% of players (is that right?) who aren’t Town should be capable of milking the potential distractions for all they’re worth.
Basically, I feel the idea stands to introduce so much non-productive chaos that it would be a waste of time, since we would end up scrutinizing the roleclaims, probably unproductively, and by doing so chew up time we could’ve spent honestly analyzing posts, votes, and whatever else we’ve traditionally relied upon to smoke out scum.
Plus, if we’re lucky enough to have a Vigilante-type, he could easily be duped into assassinating town targets, and we don’t want to do the scum’s job for them any more than bad lynchings already have been.
I just realized that I forgot to purple my preference, and so for the record I oppose the mass-reveal.
(desized for her pleasure)
Cookies. She pissed me off during the night.
(color removed on the authority of the We Hate Blue Club)
waves
Sorry, I didn’t expect this much discussion on Night Zero/Day One. I expected a slower pace than this, considering how the talking has been kind of minimal in both the Cecilvania game and the off-board game. I still haven’t been able to fully read Night Zero yet. I figured I’d digest Day One first tonight before I collapse, and tomorrow I’ll hit Night Zero.
Alright, caught up on Day One. Two big points.
One: Nanook - Ehhh. Maybe I’m just dumb, but I didn’t put anything together when I read the initial post, only in the ensuing hooplah and explanations did I see where they were coming from. Ten votes already and we’ve still got a week left. Six more votes and there’s a majority…not going to add my vote there JUST yet.
Two: Mass role claim - Nope. I vote against the mass claim. Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I feel like mass claims ruin the entire point of the mafia game. Personally, I’m playing this to have a bit of fun and stretch my brain. shrug To each his own, I suppose.
I’m going to put out a vote…it’s merely a placeholder and not indicative of any scum-hunting tactics…just insurance that I’m not mod-killed, if you dig. I’m going to reread Night Zero tomorrow.
Vote Roosh
Because I dread to see what this thread will be like when he returns. Especially if he brings milk.
Perhaps I should switch my ‘second place’ vote to you. You don’t want a mass-claim because you think it’s ‘too easy’? Does that mean you think it’s too strong a pro-town move, and you want an even playing field? It’s a mod’s job to make a game resistant to obvious strategies, it’s the players job to attempt to exploit those things. If you really think it’s that pro-town, you should be in favor of doing it. Our objective in this game is to win, not to play fairly.
I just don’t like your reasoning, if that is really what it’s based on. It seems scummy to me.
Yet two posts above you fly a OMGUS smear at me, naming me as your runner up for the noose because I “pissed you off” on Night 1?
:dubious:
Cookies, if I wanted to put forth an argument for you, I’d do so. Please don’t attach ‘second place’ votes any more importance than a random vote at the start of a game.
If you want, though, I will explain myself further.
Funny, I remember saying something very similar when you a few days ago. How much importance did you attach to my referring to you by name because I felt (and still feel) that your line of thought was potentially dangerous? Or are you being sarcastic?
Argh. Preview.
when = to
Well the current scores for/against a Day 1 Role reveal are
For (2)
Santo Rugger
CatInASuit - Yup, I’m voting for my own plan, of course.
Against (13)
Zsofia
Diomedes
Hockey Monkey
pedescribe
Redwing
Drain Bead
Oredigger77
dotchan
DiggitCamara
peekercpa
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Omi no Kami
Pollux Oil
Not Voted: ShadowFacts, Koldanar, cckerberos, CoG888, Hal Briston, MHaye, storyteller0910, RoOsh, Nanook of the North Shore, brewha, NAF1138, fluiddruid, NaturalBlondChap, Darth Sensitive, One and Only Wanderers, Hawkeyeop
Apologies if I have missed a vote, but I think it is accurate.
The next steps are as follows assuming everyone role claims on Day 1.
All claims are still going to have to be taken at face value, just as in every other game of Mafia that has been played on this board.
There is still plenty of room for post analysis, vote analysis and hunches in trying to find the scum.
When someone is being pressured, they will already have revealed their role, it will be up to the players, if they feel that the person is scummy enough, to ignore their roleclaim and lynch then, or to back off and vote for someone else.
Strangely enough that happens in all the games that have occured so far.
What it does, is prevent the scum from picking the optimal role claim to fit their position at any point in time. The choice they make on Day 1 is the role they are going to have to live up to through the rest of the game. The scum have even less information to make the optimal choice now than the town.
If they cannot perform as their role, they are going to get caught. Why? Because if a player has lied about their roleclaim, they are going to have to justify to the town why they are changing it and then probably proving otherwise.
I still think people are only looking at the short term and not the full game when looking at this idea.
I still don’t think you’re weighing the additional vulnerability this saddles the town with: one of the Doctor’s biggest strengths lies in the fact that Scum are unlikely to spot multiple power roles in a short period, potentially leaving him with a small number of power roles to look after. Have everyone openly declare, however, and the doctor will end up in a convoluted Princess Bride-style guessing game as he tries to either predict the scumkills or triage the whole situation by protecting who he feels are the most vital roles.
There are so many factions, and the town power roles are presumably designed in part to balance them with the other factions, I worry that insufficient protection, combined with open and honest roles on day 1, would lead to one faction or another rocketing to power as town’s versatility takes a nosedive following a bunch of killings on Night 1.
Go back and check the game setup again. For starters everyone is a power role and you are just looking at a Doctor to protect townies. Well apart from the fact we don’t have a Doctor, we do have Witches, Witch Doctors, Warlocks and Magicians as possibilities.
The idea is not just to make it easy to identify the scum due to removing their ability to roleclaim when they need to, it is also to make it expensive for the scum to consider going after the town.
If one scum faction rockets in power and the other scum factions continue to go after the town to their own detriment, then there is little anyone can do in that respect. But then you could say that those factions are not trying to win the game, but ensure the game is lost for someone else.
I see where you’re going with this, and in theory I like the idea of forcing scum to make big lies early in the game, but in the end I feel that tipping Town’s hand ultimately gives away more of an advantage than it creates.
In theory, I could see the merit of a mass role claim. In reality, I think it’s a waste of time to even still be talking about it.
It’ll take another day or two to get everyone to vote. Then, assuming it’s pro reveal, we’ll waste another day establishing the order of the reveal. Then, once the order is established, we’ll have people accidentally stalling due to work schedules, time zone differences, or maybe they’re not paying attention. We’ll have other people stalling just to purposefully hold up the list because they don’t have a believable story or they know that their Omega Wolf is down the line and they don’t want him to have to reveal. I really think we’d be hard pressed to get everyone to role claim by the end of toDay.
So, while I could see the potential in this type of a game.
No mass claim
I agree. I would also add that for a mass claim to work everyone has to agree to it. That is never going to happen. We have the same discussion day 1 of every game and always with the same result. I suppose it is something to talk about when we don’t have much else, but it seems rather pointless to me.
Vote No claim
I still fundamentally disagree with your assertion that my line of investigation was anti-towny. Attaching my name to such an analysis still feels to me to be a baseless smudge (along the same lines, although not nearly as scummy* as voting for someone because they give you ‘bad vibes’**).
Am I being hypocritical? I don’t think so… although I can understand why you’d feel that way.
- ‘Bad’ reasoning is usually much less of a scumtell than an attempt at unaccountability
**Full disclosure: I do this all the time when I don’t have anything else to go on. I hate myself for it.
Wow, this is why I support the lynch the lurker strategy. First of all the last time that Pollux posted was at the end of night one and he was complaining about how much we talked during the night(#378) but now he didn’t expect so much discussion during the Day/Night. Maybe he forgot.
Secondly Nanook’s slip took place during Night 1 not during the Day so if he’s only read the Day as stated when did he read the initial post?
Third, making the game too easy??? Seriously WFT the point is to win this is the equivalent of saying that we should lynch scum that admit but instead keep looking.
Finally, what is a place holder vote does that mean your just going to leave it there until someone finds a reason for voting for Ro0sh? Is it holding your place in line? I dislike almost every part of this post and I’m leaving my lynch the lurker strategy until I get some questions answered.