i don’t suppose it matters that i unvoted him, does it? so when do you like PIS accusations? never? if not, when then? i bet the answer is ‘it depends.’ judgment call then, right?
as for the wagon vote, that’s more popular on POG than here. i don’t see why a wagon vote comes into play. have you voted yet? i can’t seem to find a vote. not a fan of vote often or vote early? should you get voted for not following a convention more popular here?
you are free to vote me or if i missed your vote, you are free to unvote and vote me. all you’ve done is smudge me. since i’ve unvoted PetW i’m free to
I posted at 1:10 am on a work night. My vote is still on MHaye, I didn’t need to beat that horse to death. I wanted to post my thoughts on the vote, and then go to bed.
Sometimes PIS is obviously PIS, but most of the time, it isn’t. I think this wasn’t, and you were reaching to describe it as such. It was like everyone had already commented on the scummy things about PetW and you didnt just want to do a ‘me, too’ vote so you had to make something up. I think Scum are more self conscious about their votes than Town, so it seemed Scummy to me.
I missed the unvote. Was it after everyone else did?
Wagons are fairly mandatory on POG. You will get yelled at if you vote off wagon. I don’t think that’s the case on the SDMB. I’m not sure if you are talking about your vote on PetW’s wagon, or my desire to have a village-led wagon to counteract the triple demon vote.
I vote late more often than I vote early - is that OK? I don’t think I should get wagoned for it, no, but if the custom here is to vote early (I think there’s actually quite a lot of variability in when people vote), I will endeavour to adapt. I hadn’t voted, but I have now. I thought about voting you, but I don’t think your wagon would go today; I can if you like.
I wanted to address this part directly to head off your misunderstanding before others start subscribing to it
I don’t think Guiri and Gad are a pair, as I mentioned. I think one of them could be scum based on my entire write-up, and I want to, as you say, “cross reference” and deeply analyze. I didn’t go into depth on anyone because it was taking me a long time to write as much as I did.
I’m not sure why you want me to vote for Gadarene immediately, when (despite being a constant source conversation topic), I don’t find him substantially scummier than the other 6 possibilities. Yes, this needs further evaluation when I’ve had a chance to look at it again, and I don’t get why that’s suddenly a bad thing.
I don’t want you to vote for Gadarene, that’s not what I was saying there. It was more like you put this thing out there, “oh what could this mean, I don’t know, will have to look at a bit more later on” despite that, if you look at it in the context of what you have just said about maybe the dead guys knew what they were talking about, then the only real conclusion one can draw from that list of comments is “Gadarene should be considered suspicious”. And yet you don’t actually say that. It comes off as very much trying to lead your readers to a certain conclusion without getting your hands dirty with that conclusion yourself.
And the thing about the other six possibilities – it’s just a weird, weird way to look at scumminess, Astral. It’s not really all that different from my criticism of MHaye as approaching things too “top-down”, it just has a different focus. I can’t even say that I’ve never tried to organize suspects in ways reminiscent of what you’re doing, but it is always a late-game thing, when I can start getting into patterns of behavior to try to distinguish people who are otherwise not giving off scum tells, or who are all giving off roughly equivalent ones. It doesn’t happen on day two, when there are no patterns yet. What you’re doing is not a substitute for that natural, more organic “hey, that looks scummy and here’s why”. You do sort of do that with realitytrip and lilflower, but in the context of everything else it doesn’t convince me.
You mean, like I did with MHaye? The guy you were voting for too until just recently?
Here’s the thing, Normal: I can do both. It’s not some all or nothing thing where I either try to be analytical or I try to point out individual scummy things. I like looking at the vote records in lots of different ways. I do it in game after game because I think it helps me.
It’s fine that you never do this on Day 2. That doesn’t mean there’s no value in it. Further, your claim that there are “no patterns” is an odd one, since I found 8 early voters who voted in pairs. That seems worth investigating before dismissing, no?
I wonder how much of your problem with this is honest, and how much of it is because you’re on that 8-person list and you want to discredit my thoughts early.
Even if at the end of the Day I conclude there was nothing significant about these votes (that I can detect yet), I’ve got this already written up and ready to cross-check with future votes and cases. I don’t get why you’re so determined to suggest that this was worthless.
About your pairs of voters, I’m having a hard time figuring out why you are honing in on that as meaningful at all, why you could possibly think it would be. You’re starting off from a standpoint of people who only place one vote in a Day being statistically more likely to be scum than otherwise, which I do think is OK. But then you somewhat arbitrarily narrow that down by excluding people who only placed a vote in the second half of the day, which I do not agree with, since I also have the belief that, all else being equal, scum will vote later rather than sooner. And then from that artificial and IMO by this point null pool, you find it “interesting” that everyone in it is paired up with someone else. I fail completely to see why this should be interesting – why you should think it’s likely to be meaningful at all that this pool breaks out in pairs.
It just looks fake, Astral, like you’re searching around in vain for something you can pin some sort of meaning to. And you’re spending enormous amounts of effort on it, and almost none on creating good cases in the traditional sense. It looks to me like that’s because you’re having trouble doing the latter.
I’m not complaining about your vote on MHaye, by the way, at least not the fact of its existence. I’m quite happy it’s there, since I’m hugely suspicious of him as well. The more votes, the merrier.
I have been puzzling over the unvotes of** Guiri and the 3 votes for Astral**. What does it mean? Is** Astral** himself responsible for this? He might think that it would make him come across more Townie if he had the 3 invisible voter votes on him. It could also mean that he is really Town. The unvotes for** Guiri ** certainly make him look more Townie to me. Of course, the invisible voter might not be scum at all.
I see Visorslash is still being very abrasive! I do wish he would at least try and make a case against** Gad** instead of just baiting him.
It looks as if there could be a Weedy wagon starting, I wonder why? I wish I had more time to read but it’s a Friday night and I might have a glass or 4 of wine and then post and then get voted off for not making sense
This is almost certainly true, though I have a hard time wrapping my head around a “Good” Scum…
I have a feeling there’s something hinky going on with the factions in this game. In the opening post, Pizza mentions the following ‘groups’
Parma’s great rivals to the West and North
A few others from the East
the known traitor
there’s also the people of Parma who are referenced throughout.
So I’m guessing that ‘Town’ = Citizens of Parma, and that the Citizens of the North, West, and East Kingdoms are three different ‘non-Town’ factions, and that the ‘Traitor’ is a lone Scum…which means really he’s a PFK, unless he’s able to recruit others to his cause (which I don’t believe is addressed anywhere in the rules).
So what does this all mean, assuming it’s all correct? Heck if I know…
I’m inclined to think that the triple-votes are the work of the Traitor. I was a bit concerned by the fact that the Day 1 votes appeared only at EoD, whereas the Day 2 votes are occurring throughout. But then I noticed that Pizza explicitly stated “The order to place the following votes was done before the 5pm deadline, for the record.”, so it appears those Day 1 votes did appear in a ‘timely manner’, and that the voter simply waited until the last moment to spring them on us. Now that the existence of the triple-vote is common knowledge, there’s no reason to keep them ‘secret’ going forward.
Unfortunately, I don’t think it helps us determine who is behind these votes. It’s ‘obviously’ not **Guiri **or Astral, since both of them have been targeted Today…unless that’s just what they *want *us to think…are either of them from Australia, by chance?
Well one thing is Pizza does keep emphasizing “just keep hunting scum and you’ll be fine” or the like, so determining the exact composition of the scum team or teams does not seem all that important at the moment. I will say, though, that despite my real surprise that the triple votes are not a one-off and apparently will have to be dealt with every single freaking day (in turn suggesting a role that has a reason to be so highly powered), “traitor” does not at all imply someone who’s working alone. It could hypothetically be an instance of a kind of “secret scum” like I played once, where bad guys who are working together don’t know who the others are.
