Mafia Reunion - Day Three

[ToeJam]

:mad::mad::mad:GAH. LOST MY FUCKING POST. I’ll do it over!

@GuiriEnEspana

Happy day 3! Finished first skim quickly!

Wow, I’m surprised at how ToeJam’s claim has been received. It sets off all sorts of alarms for me, I don’t think I’m that biased [1]

• First, I think it’s bs that scum look for breadcrumbs, on N0? A player leaves breadcrumbs to be able to point back at, not for others to stumble across. Also, I don’t see any of those posts as breadcrumbs - what am I missing? Scum look for extra info, extra attention, changes in play style, tells - not crumbs. [2]
• Arguably a doc is just as important as a cop, why risk drawing attention to yourself at all? Especially with hitman and outrider roles [3]
• N1 he self-protected? So he had time to submit an order but not read the thread? Or he read the thread, noticed that he was still alive, and submitted the order, but then all that bs on D2 about being shocked and surprised?
• he says he only came back D2 because of the facebook post, but he was in contact with the mods on N1 - he PM’d them his order? [4]
• he says scum would bus him, bus not vote or pile on? [5]
• his concern about not having time to defend himself on D2 - how long does it take to say stop, I’m the doc! [6]
• I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player do a self-wow, ever. Feels like more bs to me, smoke and mirrors, if he spent 1/4 of the time hunting scum I’d be happy [7]
• He continues to misrepresent the case against him, his absence was a compounding factor, not the primary reason [8]
• I love how he’s basking in self-glory, he’s just so amazingly great at breadcrumbing and fooling scum, he can barely believe it himself, wha? His plan was to get himself lynched or NK’d? [9]
• His whole “townies without power should target themselves”, he claimed to be doing just that in #1221 [10]
• His “that’s what I’d do if I was scum- start bread crumbing a fake cult” comment, so you fake breadcrumb when you’re scum? [11]
• more self-obsession “I also know that yeah, there’s NO reason for scum to target me as I’m a free lynch” becomes “I think I’m still dying today, but probably Day killed rather than Lynched.” [12]

I suspect it’s an ploy to get the real doc Seward to claim, or a gambit to attract a cop, to be watched? Yet I’m torn because it’s a doc claim, and Sario poofed, and Septimus is dead. If it’s a real claim, he sure is likely to be targeted by scum, if it’s fake, the other scum team may still think it could be real, and take a shot anyway. Bleuggh, yuck, eww.

1. I have issues with this whole post actually. Through these “points” against me, all you do is weakly smudge me, but you never go into an accusation, you’re just pointing at times half the time (sometimes you ask Qs and I’ll address them), but you’re also just setting up kindling. It’s really not cool- because it makes someone else read it and go “huh… maybe he IS suspicious” and it allows for someone else to do the dirty work of accusing me without you actually being the one to start it up. It’s not cool. But lets get to your points.

2. You disagree with my ‘breadcrumbs’. I can’t tell if this is a pedantic argument over what a “breadcrumb” is. But for me: Breadcrumb- any clue left by a player in the game to pass along information to others in a subtle way. “a clue” if you will.
   —> The reason I dislike this comment though- is because YOU are actually one of the 4 people who DID FIND ISSUES with my Postings from N0. **You, Sunny, and Satchetorte, Normal Phase. ** But you’re walking away from that- You’re saying “I didn’t see any breadcrumbs”—> Well considering my points on N0 was to basically discuss power roles and how to use them knowing that Townies aren’t looking for people with power roles. Scum ARE going to be looking though for crumbs/breadcrumbs/loaves of bread- any hints that someone may have extra information and or a potential power. See BrewHa and the whole “switches” fiasco. He had some thing, and was discussing it in a way to get more info.
   –> Again, that’s why N0 is the perfect place to hid those things. Remember, I’m not trying to get myself NKed N0 or Lynched D1, but I do want to put myself on Scum’s Radar. So I’m sorry my “breadcrumbs” didn’t feel enough to you… despite YOU being one of 4 people to pick up on my playstyle behaviors N0 to start to go after me.
   –> Incidentally, 50% of the 4 people are Power roles. The investigator. And the 3rd Party Cultist are in the group with you. In **StoryTeller **I Trust. He knows what he’s talking about when it comes to Mafia. Even if it’s been a few years.

3. I addressed this in previous posts. Handicapped docs in large games are less useful. They become more powerful if they can use Fake Cop as a way to try to create false lynches and bad plays by Scum or to draw out the NK (because the Doc would be self-protecting until another Town Power Role is outed, then it’s WIFOM). And every prevented scum kill is a plus for the Town.

4. This is what I mean by kindling. You’re just saying things in without any accusations in hopes to cast doubt on me. You’re trying to call me a liar, but by having someone else call me out on it. It’s shitty.
   –> So you find it surprising that I was able to check into the Dope. Send a PM, and then leave? Again. N0 I started planting my Fake Cop seeds. I was Absent D1. I show Up N1, I pm the mods “Protect myself”, and I leave. That I can do in less than 5 mins without reading the thread. Again, I explained why I did this above (I don’t want to break the game or just get the Town Doctor Modkilled or do nothing. I’ll give the Town a chance. I’ll ask for a Sub, and at least the Town can continue). It takes A TON of effort to mod these games, and it SUCKS when inactivity breaks a game or breaks the balance.
   But twice back to back you repeat the same thing- you seem surprised that I did that, but you accuse me of nothing.
   –> Also, you’re basically passively saying “Oooh, look he lied on N2 about not doing anything N1”. Yeah. I did. Do YOU think hidden power roles need to announce their actions?
   Do YOU think the cop should announce who he’s targetting before he’s even claimed? No. You don’t. So Yeah. I lied because I was the Doctor, and I wasn’t going to reveal that I’d been playing alone.

5. Again. Pedantic accusations without saying what you ACTUALLY mean. It’s just kindling. I use the term Bus. Meaning to intentionally bandwagon someone. Scum BUS people- They intentionally create bandwagons to kill people. So yes, I believe D2 I was being BUSSED. As in foul play was going on. And I’ve stated why. I think the 2 Scum groups saw two choices: a potential Vig Switch AND a Potential power role that had been hinting all of D2 of being an investigative Role. I think they’d be happen to push either one forwards. Especially if they can do it without the Cop having a chance to claim. Only way to do that is by Bussing. If you want to call it a pile on or whatever else, then YMMV.

6. Interesting. so you wanted me to claim my power role D2. :dubious:
   Again- I was under NO hurry to claim Fake Cop D2 all day on D2. I pointed out that I was suspicious, and that I would be happy to defend myself D3. I acknowledged being there to lynch, and I implied I just needed one more Day and we’d get my defense.
   —> Now. Here’s the fun thing—> (And something you’d pick up on if You had WOW’ed my D2 instead of just complaining about it): D2 I was again throwing off clues/breadcrumbs that I was an investigative role. Because what VT would beg and plead and be happy with one more Day to prepare a defense? (Again, look at this from Scum Eyes, not Townie. Townies obviously don’t know if I’m scum or if I’m Town. But SCUM…) they look at me and see a person who is okay with being lynched, but wants ONE more Day. So now… what type of Power Role is comfortable approaching the Lynch? What Power Role is okay with preparing a Defense? And What Power Role wants ONE MORE NIGHT to continue on (because that’s what asking for one more day is). It’s not likely the Doctor that comes to mind–> But for scum, a COP. A cop is not afraid of the lynch when they have time to prepare a defense. A Cop WANTS one more chance to continue investigating… and a Cop is arrogant and loud in order to avoid the NK/DK, because if they go up to a prepared lynch, they can reveal.
   –> So for the Scum, that’s a Big breadcrumb- they want to BUS that player: Ie: Kill them without them revealing whats in the magic bag. Or they want to push that player into the open, confirm it, and then kill them at Night or Day.
   That’s why when you have a player being that complacent about accepting a lynch… don’t view that through townie eyes, but rather Scum eyes and you’ll start to get antsy and want them deader sooner than later.

7. This was a Damned if you do, Damned if you dont. I SAID this would happen… I ASKED the Town for 2 days to do a WOW on me. Noone did. And I said it would look SUPER ODD if I had to do my own WOW. And yet. Silence. So I do my WOW, and here you go smearing me for exactly what I said would happen.
   –> Are you volunteering to do my D2 WOW then? Or are you just going to complain about it when I do it? Again, if you spent 1/2 the time doing the work rather than bitching at me for doing the work blah blah blah.

8. Again. You smudge me. I defended myself against the so-called D1 accusations. You now say I misrepresented it. Why not then point out the parts you still have issue with? Instead you just cast more doubt on me.

9. Again. A Handicapped Doctor in a 50+ Player Game. I’ve explained how the Doctor power is not as useful especially early game. I believe its good play for Doctors to then go for the Fake-Cop role, because it buys the Real cops time, AND it doesn’t hurt the Town if the Doc gets targeted for a NK, because the Doc is protecting the one person he knows who is 100% Town: Himself. A missed NK is a HUGE plus for the Town versus protecting yourself or randomly protecting when you may not even be in scum’s sight.

@ToeJam

One thing I saw noone really discussed on D2's start that I had in my mind as well-
The Mods talk of a mechanism of up to 3 Lynches during the day. We only got 2 lynches toDay, and it was because of 2 townies being killed overnight.
 --That stands to reason there's a mechanism for 3 Townies to die overnight potentially (in order to give the Town the 3 Lynch Option). That's why I've been worried about the Cultist group.

I think there are more things that go bump in the Night other than just a Scum Team and a Mandatory Vig. Noone really seemed to focus on that idea D2, but yeah. 

-Thoughts or was that hashed to death and I missed it?

Also, I’m still honestly a fan of us Townies targeting ourselves if we have no powers and just sending it in to the Mods. I’ve been doing that each night, just in case. It might be silly, but then again, it might actually help the town out, as it doesn’t really harm the Town in any way either, but it could confuse any Scum Watchers. But yeah. Every bit of WIFOM for the Scum. Then again, I guess just PMing the Mods and seeing if that’d work might solve that Q of mine.
-R

Again, more crumbs for someone who doesn’t “See the crumbs”.
This post is important for 2 reasons (Which I’m sure in your WOW which is coming anyday now would have pointed out):
–I’m bringing up in the first half the fact that I think there are more kills possible: Ie: that perhaps some kills have been blocked. WHY? BECAUSE I’M THE GODDAMN DOCTOR.
–Again, you don’t accuse me of anything, you just bring up this post and smudge me without saying anything. Are you trying to accuse me of lying? Is that Your goal? That I LIED about being VT and targetting myself?
–> Again, in that post, I’m letting people know (which if i died, you’d see on reveal): EACH NIGHT I’VE BEEN TARGETING MYSELF. I pointed out the idea of VTs targeting themselves, because if a scum watcher LOOKED at me, they’d see me targeting themselves and assume I’m a power role. The intent of that post lets people know what I’ve been doing each night AND it puts WIFOM in front of the scum that maybe I AM just a wierdo VT targetting myself rather than the goddamn DOCTOR.

11. This was addressed above by another poster. Yes. Every power role should be planting breadcrumbs for their claims regardless of alignment. Sachetorte planted crumbs, do you suddenly think he’s Town despite his claim? Someone else pointed out they did it when scum, and that they looked for crumbs when scum.
    –> I think you know that too. But you’re just trying to continue to smear my claim

12. AGAIN. There’s no accusations. You just say stuff and hope others comment on it or you can stir up suspicions. Do you think I’m more likely to be DK’ed or Lynched today? Earlier I had suspicions. Now I don’t know- it’s up to the Mafia if they want to DK me, or try to use me during the night to block the Wolves or to just save me for a free lynch further in the game when the stakes are higher. Which… if that was the case, they’d want to smudge me repeatedly and continue to do it daily until it becomes a "matter of principle’ that you gotta lynch the Doctor rather than find scum.
    –>If you’re accusing me of “yeah, I’m fine with going to the lynch on D3” when I was doing that on D2 (Where I was totally comfortable with being the target of the lynch on D3, and cool with not being the target D2): well… look at my answer to #6…
    And yeah- I play arrogant and cocky. Why? Because it creates emotions, I want to piss off and taunt the Scum. I want them to get angry and annoyed and frustrated… because emotional scum are more likely to slip up or mispost or get personal about driving a lynch.
    –I see you’ve certainly had feelings about it since N0.

But i’ll do you one better. Unlike you smudging me repeated, I’ll give you a FOS Guiri. This post of yours didn’t really do much to actually accuse me of things, instead you just point to things, you don’t interpret them, but you just leave them for the readers to think about without context/further explanation. It’s really smudging, and I don’t think you’re the lynch play for toDay… but I do think you’ve been picking up on more of the breadcrumbs than you care to admit, and you’re trying to smear me for the future. Guiriand SunnyDaze are the last of the initial 4 who started sniffing around me… and so far I’m 2 for 2 on the StoryTeller Theory of Breadcrumbs (Scum or Power Roles are more likely looking for breadcrumbs rather than VTs).
J’accuse! :dubious:
-R