Mafia Reunion - Day Two

Yeah but this is partially for my own piece of mind. I would feel terrible if I allowed a scum to hide in the ranks of Lutha. But I’m willing to think about it. Tell me why I shouldn’t investigate sachertorte

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I can’t even. WTF?
How is it our fault that you failed to show up until the end of the day. I didn’t realize that we must defer to your busy schedule, but our lack of a time machine to vote for you earlier in the day, while you were missing, is somehow unfair to you.

It is my belief that the only reason you didn’t have more votes earlier in the day is because you were on deck to be mod-killed. I believe I stated as much.


Yeah well, I didn’t want you to claim. So we have that in common. But overall, I think your claim is working out better than I expected. I expected you to get lynched hard, but town has shown an open-mindedness that could lead to a benefit for all. I agree that we all shouldn’t claim just yet, but backing up your claim gives it more weight. It is risky, that’s sort of the point. You took a risk in claiming. Town takes a risk in not lynching you. I take a risk in claiming. There’s a lot of giving and trust there. That is good for Town and good for us.

It is possible that the Vig could kill both us. One of us, is perhaps forgivable. Both, less so. If that happens, then I expect the other cultists to clam up and play it safe for as long as they can. But who knows? They will have to make that judgment for themselves.

I didn’t claim to save you. At least that wasn’t the primary reason. Part of my reasoning for claiming was that I felt you didn’t need saving.

ToeJam came in second for the Lynch vote on Day 1. Voting for him on Day 2 is not unexpected. If anything, ToeJam’s lack of participation was preventing people from voting for him earlier in Day 2. That he is getting end of day votes is a combination of the realization that the brewha train is terrible and his taking himself out of mod-kill candidacy.

I can only provide what I can provide. Crys posted the role PM. All I can do is show posts of mine that show knowledge of that PM prior to her reveal.
There is a balance between being out in the open and in danger of being killed and being hidden and also in danger of being killed. No matter what, there is that danger. Being out means the danger is from someone or collectively making the decision to kill me. It could happen. It could also happen that the killers realize that I’m not a threat to them. I don’t know what they will do, so yes, it is a risk, but by claiming, I might fall off the radar of killers and increase my chances of survival.

Crys didn’t exactly behave the way I would expect a survivor to behave either, but we’re all unique snowflakes.

Why are you preemptively blaming me for Crys’s death? To me this looks like scum planning to kill Crys and put the blame on me.
I’m assuming we all have cultist investigation powers. Crys has it, I have it. I assume all the cultists have it. So even if Crys dies, don’t you think it possible for another cultist to check me out?
You’re also too dismissive of breadcrumbs.

And here’s the really weird part. paulwhoisaghost was the player who was most reasonable about Crys claim. The accuracy of his assessment was a big part of what led me to claim. And now he’s being all weird about it. I don’t understand it. I guess that’s the surprise I was expecting.

My bold. Idle Thoughts, I think, is a good place to start. Very low activity. He started this party, didn’t he? I expected more.
Spoilered to relevant portion

Actually, I agree with this observation. I did think paulwhois was very supportive of Crys. He does seem to be back-tracking. I was expecting Paul to be the next Lutha, TBH.

No. I made a mistake, and I corrected that mistake. I thought the consensus would be for a double Lynch. Voting for brewha supports that double Lynch without directly voting for Crys.

ToeJam was set for mod-kill at the time of my vote.

Nope. I can do math. The situation I thought would happen wasn’t coming to be. I thought players would vote to double Lynch. (That’s part of why I voted for brewha

If Town wants to Lynch Crys they are going to do so. Voting for brewha isn’t going to stop that. And not voting for brewha is entirely consistent with my assessment that Crys wasn’t going to get lynched, which is what I believed.

ONE person. That one person doesn’t have to be me and it doesn’t have to be Crys.

As I understand it, the investigation is only a one shot power if they find a cultist… there is no reason not to investigate to try to find other cultists if you trust everything they have claimed thus far.

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Just a point of order - I feel like discussing strategy while scum is discussing their nightkills may not be optimal.

Even though I trust what sachertorte has said there is still always that niggling thought in the back of my brain, and because I believe them that all of you do. I’m super bad at picking up breadcrumbs now that sachertorte pointed out Theirs they seem obvious and I can’t believe I missed them.

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I’m not preemptively blaming you for Crys’s death, I’m explaining why I’m more suspicious of you than of Crys. I don’t know you are telling the truth. If I consider you could be lying, one reason could be that you are scum. If you follow the logic that you are scum and are false claiming to group yourself with the cultists, then it would make sense that your scum team would kill Crys to stop Crys from investigating and outing you. True, other cultists could investigate and out you, but they risk wasting their investigation if you are telling the truth. Even if they do investigate you, they would have to out themselves to tell us that you are lying. If you are lying, this is a possibility.

This is how I play the game. I look at what people say and figure out what all possible scenarios are and then try to rule them out based on available evidence. Right now the only evidence supporting your claim are your breadcrumbs. That’s pretty good evidence, but it doesn’t entirely rule out you being lying scum, it just makes it unlikely.

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Neta and if scum were given our pms as cover it would be easy to plant their breadcrumbs

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This is one possible reason that I am not going to blindly trust Sach’s claim… I am not ready to make a final decision on what to do about cultists, so I’m asking questions. I don’t think it’s best for town to use our lynch on any of you yet, but that doesn’t mean I can’t sniff this out until I am satisfied.

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What you do doesn’t really matter to town. You are third party. You claim you can win with anyone. Your power doesn’t help us all that much, however.

But it seems reasonable to this townie that you and sachertorte are truthfully claiming that you are part of the same cult because it would be a huge gamble for a scummy sachertorte to have done this. There’s a lot of risk for not much gain at this point. Especially because you claim you haven’t had your power used up yet. And sachertorte was under no pressure. Which means all you would have to do is investigate him and out him as lying scum, buying your cult increased chances of town being willing to work with you and scum being down one number.

So barring some weird mechanic, there is no reason for sachertorte to be lying. So there’s not much reason for you to spend your power on him. If you can confirm more cultists, and the cultists decide to ally with town as an alternate mason-like group, scum have less space to hide. The risk to town in this alliance is that you can stab us in the back and work with scum. The risk to you is if you are all exposed, scum can just take you all out since by killing you they don’t reduce the pool they can hide in any further.

This, of course, is assuming you are being completely honest about the win condition and powers.

But for your own sake, you are probably better trying to find other cultists. For town’s sake, if you ally with us, knowing who a few of the other cultists are is good for us so we don’t lynch or vig them instead of scum, because in the numbers game, you cultists count as townies.

So investigating sachertorte is, while not a waste of your power, probably not the most ideal play for any interested parties.

But it’s not really a bad play, either. Use your best judgement.

Thank you. I understand your perspective now… I don’t agree with how you chose to act, but I understand it a little better.

The biggest hang ups i have are the benefit that scum could gain from doing exactly what you did and the fact that it is only N2 and 2/5 of your survival team are outed. In a game this size you have a long road ahead of you and there is a good chance other cultists could get hit in some crossfire… if you are telling the truth, that’s awful risky to have almost half the team outed so early.

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I still am supportive of not lynching Crys… I am more wary of Sach, but don’t think we should Lynch either of them. We need to start killing scum. It bugs the crap out of me that we have so many posts for people to analyze and they are still content with lynching 3P and non-participants, neither of which is scum hunting IMHO.

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And I just saw paulwhoisaghost’s mention of the fake cover roles from scum that I hadn’t thought about. That is a consideration to take into account. I still find it unlikely, but it is something we should consider.

Though, it raises the issue of do both scum teams have knowledge of this? It would seem they’d have to in order to keep the teams balanced. If not, what other compensation is given to the other team? And if only one team has it, could this be some elaborate plot by a scummy sachertorte and Crys? I doubt it, but it is something to keep in the back of our minds as a possiblity.

Still, I think the simpler explanation should be our assumption for now.

Your post poses that a scummy Sach wouldn’t risk Crys investigating them. In this scenario, a scummy Sach wouldn’t be risking getting investigated by Crys if the scum team kills Crys.

I don’t know if that is what is going on… I just think that if you are going to pose the scenario than it should be considered.

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That wasn’t me

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If you guys are going to lynch non-participants, scraping the bottom of the barrel is a bad plan… you should be looking at people who have posted but not contributed.

Take Prof P for example… I haven’t seen much in the way of gameplay from him. He’s playing other thread games actively, but not posting cases in here.

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It’s was Crys.

@Sachertorte, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to be suspicious of your claim when a claimed cultist is also posing the possibility that you could be scum.

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The “stuck out your neck” portion by which I mean claiming. If he didn’t think **Crys **was in danger, and he’s a survivor, why not just stay silent and allow the lynch to happen and let **Chrys **go into the night? He chose to put himself and his so called ‘survivor’ win condition at risk by making himself visible at a time when he didn’t need to.
-Why would he do that?
-My thoughts are still going back to the idea of a Cult needing a recruitment mechanism.
-The Scum are unlikely to kill off the Cultists tonight, they’re just great lynch WIFOM. And already we have **Klutz **asking the vig to spare the cultists so that the Town has to waste a lynch on them instead. It makes me uneasy.

MY thoughts on why this isn’t good:
If the cultists DO need to recruit each other- there’s 3 of them out there now who know exactly who to target.
We go into Day3 with at least each of these cultists likely to know 1 or more of their members now. **Sach **and **Chrys **didn’t mention if BOTH cult members know the other is cultist when investigated, but if so, they’re going to be able to form a mason-esque voting block real quick with the unknown cultists quickly and quietly becoming known to **Sach **or **Chrys **(and now with 2 cultists out in the open, there’s a greater chance of at least one of them surviving til dawn).

-And I still fear the “if X number of cultists get together, they unlock a power/New Win Mechanism”

And I believe it had already been posted in the thread that I would be first up for lynch on Day 3. Which I even agreed to and acknowledged that scrutiny.
To try to rile up a 12 hour rush bandwagon against me is a terrible usage of the Town’s chances to investigate and to check out a player’s potential defense.
–It’s more of a scummy tactic to try to kill off a power role or to force a claim out of someone who may not be able to defend themselves as well. That’s why I find it so scummy. Because if it’s town, it’s ShitTown playing strategies to try to force a lynch when you have future days to properly conduct business.

–Though I know in your case it’s not ShitTown play. It’s actually malicious. You’re not claiming Town, and so there it is. Your feigned annoyance means nothing to me, Cultist.

I believe I responded to this via Raventhief’s questions. IF I wanted to take myself out of mod-kill candidacy and avoid being scrutinized, I could do what Hal’s doing. The mods have stated the ModKills happen at Dawn. Posting in the night would save my bacon and saved me heat.

I agree with this generally on principle (N0 being the one exception usually), but I have to post when I can find the time. Like I took a sick day today, and so I’m free during the day to post right now, and weekends are better for me than weekdays. So :Shrug:

This is important.
What’s to Stop **Chrys **(or Sach) from actually finding a fellow cultist. And then telling us that X is NOT a cultist to keep them going as a Vanilla Townie or such?
That’s again my cultist issue. We cannot trust their investigations to benefit the Town.