Mafia Reunion - Day Two

[raventhief]

@Thing_Fish

Ack! I just accidentally posted a case on MHaye in the Day One thread, and I can’t quote it here with all the embedded quotes, sohere’s a link. Sorry about that.

Day1 came up for me an so I read your post, then scrolled up and was mildly confused.

[Scathach]

I hate to prevail upon our beleagured mods, but could we get an updated player list

I just want an obvious list to compare post counts to.

[nesta]

The brewha Batman switch test has been well hashed out, but for the record I’m against it. First, it has too many moving parts to work well, and second, it most likely ends up with a dead brewha, who is seeming rather town at the moment. Why would we want to have a plan to kill a townie?

FOS Chronos. Not just because I think it’s a bad plan, but because I think Chronos is a very perceptive player and should (or does) know better.

@brewha

…
The they are in series - which I assumed - then either of the switches would break the connection and shut off Batman’s powers.

But, if they are parallel, both switches would have to be off to break the connection. If only one switch is off, the power is still active.

I’m flipping my switch tonight.
…

As others have pointed out, it’s probably that if only one switch is toggled to “off” then the power is turned off. If both are “off” then the power is left on.

BTW, this is an XOR (Exclusive Or).

brewha, I hope announcing what you are going to do with the switch is WIFOM. If you do intend to stick with flipping the switch Tonight, and scum has the other switch, you are effectively giving control of whether the Vig can kill to scum. Giving any extra control to scum is a bad idea.

[NAF1138]

@Scathach

I hate to prevail upon our beleagured mods, but could we get an updated player list

I just want an obvious list to compare post counts to.

Yes, if I have it handy I will post it in a moment. If not when I do the vote count later tonight.

[Captain_Klutz]

@brewha

I don’t see any sense in paraphrasing. Here’s my Switch PM - word for word:

Oh, one more thing. You also have a switch. It’s labeled “Alternate Universe Batman Switch”. Each Night, it begins in the “on” position and you may flip it to “off” or leave it alone. There is another switch like this out there, by the way.

The switch PM came almost a day after my role PM.

I gotta wonder how much the other switch is like mine. Is it an on to off only switch? Or is it an off to on switch?

This doesn’t make any sense and contradicts the original statement that they are toggles. “Another switch like this” implies that they are both OFF switches, so that if either (or both) are switched then the power is off. However, the mods have confirmed that all wording is correct.

I am against the plan of the vig targeting brewha. If scum do control the other switch then they want brewha dead in order to get full control over the vig’s power. Targeting brewha makes it more likely that the vig will do their work for them.

I think that brewha should not flip his switch and the vig target who they wish. Yes, I think the vig should be killing every Night. There is a pool of 14 scum to hit, which is pretty good odds.

[nesta]

@snfaulkner

I think assuming they are in series is the wisest plan, since that’s how they were in last game that featured them.

Is that really how it was in the last game? In series would mean that either switch “off” would keep the power from being active. That would mean if scum had a switch on a town power they could always turn it off until the scum holding that switch is dead.

I think this is the more likely setup:

@sachertorte

Neither. The switches are a three-way switch. If both are untouched, the power is on. if both are touched, the power is on. If one is flipped and the other not flipped, the power is off. I don’t want to ask mod questions in the main thread about someone else’s private message (that’s just weird and open to abuse). I suggest you ask the mods by PM to clarify your switch to you. Ask them to define “on” “off” and “toggle” with respect to your switch and the other switch that goes with yours. Using “on” and “off” in your PM when the rules state “toggle” is messed up and probably the cause of much confusion.

Any other configuration (series or parallel) doesn’t make sense game-wise.

I know people are getting tired of the switch talk, but I think it’s important for brewha to understand how it works before he makes a decision.

[nesta]

@Captain_Klutz

Yes, I think the vig should be killing every Night.

The Vig is compulsory, so they have to kill every night.

[raventhief]

@nesta

The Vig is compulsory, so they have to kill every night.

Unless they are switched off, I imagine.

[Captain_Klutz]

I had previously asked the mods whether a switch is revealed upon the player’s death. The reply was that the switch is NOT mentioned.

NAF declined to confirm this in the thread (post 238). I just told him that I already know, and whether he should therefore confirm it in the game. He replied that it is okay to report what I was told.

So, reporting that switches are not revealed on death.

[Captain_Klutz]

@nesta

The Vig is compulsory, so they have to kill every night.

Okay, I think that the vig should be unfettered in his kill attempt

[snfaulkner]

@nesta

Is that really how it was in the last game? In series would mean that either switch “off” would keep the power from being active. That would mean if scum had a switch on a town power they could always turn it off until the scum holding that switch is dead.

I think this is the more likely setup:

I know people are getting tired of the switch talk, but I think it’s important for brewha to understand how it works before he makes a decision.

Maybe I misread and/or misspoke something somewhere, but here is how they worked last game (quoted from the rules thread of that game):

1 Douchebag Cop Switch - Can switch off the town cop
1 Douchebag Doc Switch - Can switch off the town doc
1 Douchebag Vig Switch - Can switch off the town vig

1 Ruiner(a serial killer role) - 1. Must be last surviving player to win. 2. Can also flip any mafia switches he/she desires. If a switch is flipped, it inverts the position the related mafia member chose to set it.

So each role had two switches. One controlled by a scum, the other the SK. At the beginning of the day, all switches are reset to ON. Then at night, if no switch is thrown, the power is ON. if one switch is thrown the power is OFF, if both are thrown, the power is back ON again. I think it is reasonable to assume this is the same mechanic in this game.

[raventhief]

I suspect that the switches are simply meant to thrown monkey wrenches into the works. With control of at least some of the switches in nefarious hands, I am not sure how much benefit we can actually get from over-analyzing them to death.

[brewha]

@nesta

I know people are getting tired of the switch talk, but I think it’s important for brewha to understand how it works before he makes a decision.

I don’t think anyone -aside from the mods - really knows how the switches work. I am well aware of the possibilities, though.

[brewha]

@nesta

brewha, I hope announcing what you are going to do with the switch is WIFOM. If you do intend to stick with flipping the switch Tonight, and scum has the other switch, you are effectively giving control of whether the Vig can kill to scum. Giving any extra control to scum is a bad idea.

And acknowledging that my intention was WIFOM would have what effect then?

[Scathach]

@Captain_Klutz

I had previously asked the mods whether a switch is revealed upon the player’s death. The reply was that the switch is NOT mentioned.

NAF declined to confirm this in the thread (post 238). I just told him that I already know, and whether he should therefore confirm it in the game. He replied that it is okay to report what I was told.

So, reporting that switches are not revealed on death.

Forgive me for being suspicious but:
**
Mods:

1. Are switches revealed on player death?
2. Would you give a single player extra knowledge via PM and rather than confirm it in the game thread, instead tell the player to tell the game thread. **

[Mahaloth]

@Scathach

Forgive me for being suspicious but:
**
Mods:

1. Are switches revealed on player death?
2. Would you give a single player extra knowledge via PM and rather than confirm it in the game thread, instead tell the player to tell the game thread. **

**1. No, they are not.

2. Because NAF and I are fielding a million questions, pm’s, actions, etc. at any one point. We did not consult in advance and I am deciding to tell you they are not revealed.

Sorry for the confusion; we are doing our best. **

[BillMC]

Strewth what a lot to catch up on. comments/notes as I go…

@Chronos

BillMC, is that what you meant to say? You think that Colby is Scum, and you think that there’s a good argument for ToeJam over Lakai, but you’re voting Lakai just because a lot of other folks are?

No, that is not what I said. My gut feeling is that colby is scum, based on how he has responded to being accused of being scum. Out of the lynch leaders, the I thought the case on Toejam was better than the case on Lakai - so I voted Toejam not Lakai.

@Normal_Phase

At this rate of participation the only way town is winning this game is if scum kills each other off (or are among those getting modkilled). Good job everybody.
/cranky

I guess cranky is easier to understand than your countdown and whelp comments. Why do you think the level of scum participation is higher than the level of town participation?

@Biotop

Almost 1200 posts, but…
Currently over half of all Day1 posts have come from 10 posters, one of whom is a mod.

Quantity doesn’t equate to quality, the signal to noise ratio is very low.

@Drain_Bead

Am I missing a Lakai roleclaim somewhere?

Drain effectively asking for a claim, and Lakai obliges a few minutes later.

@Lakai

I’m vanilla town guys. No one important.

Next post Hoopy reaffirms his vote on Lakai, and MHaye pops in 4 posts later, expresses suspicion of Septimus “Without the claim I’d probably be voting for him now,” and then votes Lakai who had claimed 13 minutes earlier, and then expresses suspicion of colby a few posts later.

Nesta and Bufftabby subsequently vote Lakai
Ender votes Toejam
Chronos acknowledges that Lakai has claimed then votes Toejam, and suggests that the comp vig shoot amongst the vote leaders (#1198)

#1204 MHaye expresses further suspicion of Colby, leaves vote where it is.
Faulkner switches from Lakai to Toejam
Cookies votes Toejam
16-14-7 Lakai, Toejam, Colby
Nanook switches from Colby to Lakai
Lakai switches from Angel to Toejam

and its day over

3 day - that’s unexpected:
-Lakai is dead. He was a Vanilla Townie.
-Normal Phase is dead. She was the Investigative Journalist.
-Finally, Septimus is dead. He was the EMT.

I’m surprised that Septimus was targeted - the outrider could have killed him based on his stated plan to self protect, or the mafia could have targeted him, but surely the watcher would have kept an eye on septimus and seen the killer…not a good 1 for 1 trade for either scum team. Even for a day SK, getting seen killing Septimus would have been a bad move - unless such a day SK cant be seen?

Killing septimus would have been a bad move for either scum team, so Normal was most likely the Mafia kill.

@Chronos

Of course the D1 lynch happened. How did you think Lakai, the vote leader, died?

Losing the Investigative Journalist sucks, of course, but this is why we have an understudy. Unless we lose the Cop or the Seer tonight (knock wood, I hope not!), the Understudy should probably pick up the Investigative Journalist role.

The simplest interpretation of that set of kills is that the Mafia killed Normal, and the Wolf Outrider killed septimus, who apparently was actually self-protecting (I was kind of hoping that he wouldn’t, just to fake out the Outrider). Apparently the Wolves didn’t share septimus’ assessment that he wasn’t worth killing, because he didn’t interfere with him.

Alternately, of course, it’s possible that septimus wasn’t self-protecting, and one of those deaths was from a third party. We’ll know more by Dusk 2, I guess (when it’d be obvious if we again have a second non-lynch death).

I guess this interpretation assumes that the Watcher didnt buy Septimus’ claim and thus wouldn’t watch him?
Lightfoot, biotop agree with chronos; boozy suggests third party killer, but thinks outrider is most likely
discussion on outrider/emt interaction/outcomes

Agree with #1255 thing fish “I hope our Watcher watched septimus last night …I can’t see who else the Watcher might plausibly have targeted.”

@raventhief

Both factions have both the official kill - Mafia day kill, Wold night kill, plus they have the Hitman/Outrider than hits opposite, right?

So lynch, Mafia Day Kill, and Outrider hit, I think.

I hate not editing. WOLF, not Wold, and THAT not than. Which may imply that any third party killers aren’t active during the day.

seems sure that the outrider was responsible for septimus

thing fish vote count 14-7-6 lakai, toejam, colby (#1272)

@Thing_Fish

I don’t think so. Here is the last vote count we have. I realize a lot happened after that – mainly Toejam made a big run – but we know that wasn’t scum-motivated.

It’s likely that the run on Toejam wasn’t scum trying to save Lakai - but Thing Fish doesn’t know that for certainly unless they are scum. - Plankton raises same point in #1282/#1285/#1297. agree with plankton’s view

@Thing_Fish

As someone whom** Normal** wanted to “snuggle so hard”, I would caution against trying to figure out why the scum chose the kill they did, especially when we don’t even know for sure which was the scum kill. I’ve never seen it be helpful to Town.

I think the list of Normal’s votes is helpful because she’s a good player and we know she was Town, but that’s it.

disagree - we have two scum teams and at least a town compulsory vig (who couldn’t have killed normal (unless the switches change batman from night to day?)) figuring out who is killing who for what reasons helps narrow down who is scum.

more discussion on outrider/emt interaction

subs:
Paulwhoisaghost - in for Winston Smith
And back for an encore performance Lakai in for Daphne Black!

even more discussion on the outrider

1447 posts…jeez. and now on to day 2

[Sunny_Daze]

@Thing_Fish

**Sunny, ** I assume you are voting for Plumpudding based on some reasoning you have previously outlined; could you recap or link to your reasoning? Offhand the only thing I remember him getting flak for was having a bad fluff/content ratio, which certainly is true. Is there more?

Yes, it was the bad fluff/content ratio.

[Scathach]

@Mahaloth

**1. No, they are not.

2. Because NAF and I are fielding a million questions, pm’s, actions, etc. at any one point. We did not consult in advance and I am deciding to tell you they are not revealed.

Sorry for the confusion; we are doing our best. **

Fair enough.

Btw my second question wasn’t “why would you” it was just “would you”. But answered anyway I think, thanks

[BillMC]

Day 2…300+ posts already

Suburban Plankton is now dead. He was the Homicide Detective.
Colby11 is now dead. He was a vanilla townsperson.

Not a good start, if batman took chronos’ advice, then possibly colby was the town kill, and plankton the wolves. tho why would batman choose colby over toejam porbably batman was a colby voter? Tho no third kill, no night sk? or blocked/protected?

So the understudy should be able to choose between the journalist and detective
“You have no powers at all to begin the game. However, you may assume the identity and power of any Town player who dies on Day 1 or Night 1. PM the mods who you want to replace, if you choose to do so. Should you fail to exercise your option before Dawn of Day 2, you will be functionally vanilla for the remainder of the game.”
they can choose the role of someone who dies D1/N1 but must make the decision before dawn on D2 - so they wouldnt have known who died on N1 - so I guess the understudy really only could have chosen the journalist. Hopefully the understudy got this clarified.

faulkner thinks colby by the vig, plankton by the wolves #6, as does pepper #9

@Chronos

Colby was an obvious choice for the Vig and a lousy choice for the Wolves, so absent any evidence to the contrary, I assume it was him vigged and Suburban wolfed.

tho why colby over toejam? helps town by clearing up the colby debate?

#31 raven straight on the case with toejam, and idle jumps on, then sunny

@Thing_Fish

We saw a huge rush of players onto the Lakai and ToeJam wagons at the end of the Day. No doubt many of those were scum looking for a safe place to park their vote and blend in with the crowd. A lot of them presumably were Town thinking that one of the two was scummier than the other, and that’s great. But I think a lot of them were Town thinking that they “had to” vote for one of the leaders, and this illustrates the problem with that approach which I mentioned yesterDay; there were so many people voting for those two with flimsy “me too” type rationales that it’s hard to pick out which ones might be scum.

conversely the single voters are playing somewhat “safe” by absolving themselves of any accountability for the lynch outcome.

angel votes idle - he’s not consistent
drain votes klutz - repeat of one off
pepper votes sario - happy with toejam, but sario for old times sake

#47 drain asks where septimus said he’d self protect. thinks she missed a lakai claim on d1 and missed this - not paying attention?

@Chronos

And that’s part of the reason why I’d like to see people call out more suspects. Yeah, most players put as their first suspect one of three people, and that doesn’t give us much information. But if you had asked all of those voters who their second choice was, or their third, or tenth, you would probably end up with a lot more variety of opinion, and have a lot more basis to distinguish between those players.

I’d agree with this - tho in quite a few games any suggestion of suspicion without a vote has been seen as being scummy.

#60 suspicion of idle, then votes angel
#69 plum votes texcat for voting normal/colby and not discussing toejam?

#71 agree with angel’s comments on idle
#80 boozy votes angel - for her vote on idle

#121 that’s an interesting point about thing fish. The mason role does have a place holder to specify the other masons, none of the scum roles have a place holder. In general scum know who the other scum are, tho in dante’s last game the scum didn’t know who each other were till n1 or d2 if I recall correctly. thing’s pov is that the scum dont know each other as it was not specified in the roles. pis or conjecture? urgh back to d1 to look the original discussion…pleo made the original comment about avoiding reading boards, so conjecture?

discussion on the multilynch - definitely in towns favour when town has information to act on such as multiple scum being revealed by investigators, but probably anti-town if just shooting in the dark. while the scum teams cant coordinate, they are still a significant number of votes to sway vote

#149 good point pleo, thing fish’s language was equally assertive in his d1 exchange with plankton d1#1282

#151 nanook votes chronos - metagaming reason aroudn “i am town”

#154 pleo continues to focus on who might be modkilled. this feels pro-town, don’t want to waste the lynch on someone who will be modkilled anyway - so folk voting toejam at present are wasting their vote.

@Johnny_Bravo

POST #334 - COLBY SOFTCLAIMS AS VANILLA TOWN.

I must have missed that…but d1#334 is a post by NAF. ??? Further focuses on colby voters…bravo voted normal on d1

@brewha

So, it’s a pretty safe bet that the pro town vigillante killed Colby. He has to kill every night and the runner up to lynch is as pro-town a choice to make as any.

Colby was not the runner up, Toejam was.

@Chronos

Dude, Pleo, if there’s any Perfect Information here, it’s yours, and Thing Fish is guilty only of pointing it out. It was you, not Thing Fish, who said that Scum could avoid knowing who’s on their team by avoiding reading their boards. So you were implicitly assuming that that information is on their boards. Now, I’m not going to say that that’s a bad assumption: After all, they have to have found out at some point who their teammates were, and if not in their PMs, then how? But if you’re going to make an assumption yourself, then it hardly behooves you to use your one and only vote-that-counts on someone else for pointing out your assumption, and to blame them for assuming it.

agree with chronos

#187 chronos suggests there are two batman switches held by scum, #189 brewha claims town and that he has one. lucky guess by chronos. very balsy move by brewha if he is scum - most likely town.

#203 meeko votes sach for meekospeak around multilynch

#211 brewha says his switch is on to off only; so he can stop batman?

@brewha

Waste a vig kill? Batman is as blind as the rest of the town. If he/she kills the runner up in the votes, there’s no guarantee that the person is scum. If batman kills another random town role - like Colby - that’s a waste. If batman kills me, we at least learn things.

that we’ll learn you dead alignment and and that we’re probably down another townie?

caught up now I hope