I must say, in my entire history of Mafia, I have never, ever seen a player disagree with their own vote?!
Oredigger was bought by the Politician, remember.
I still think there’s a strong possibility they’re colluding. It just seemed forced.
Before I turn to scumhunting, time to discuss my abilities (as I promised to do last night, before being mugged by sleep. The promise to do so was originally provoked by seeing post [post=10255111]1163[/post]. In that post, Oredigger said this :
(Bolding mine).
There’s two problems with it. Second things first : Oredigger reveals he doesn’t understand when people go mad, as illustrated by the bolded bit. The lack of comments and queries (except from me, and I deliberately kept quiet to see if anyone else wanted to push this) reveals that no-one caught the error, so the Townspeople are probably making the same mistake (irrespective of what Oredigger’s role is).
Sarah drives people mad at the end of Dawn.
In this game, Dawn is not a moment in time, it is a period of time in the Day. Dawn begins with the Daybreak post and ends twenty-four real-time hours later. During that twenty-four hours Sarah gets to choose who to intimidate. The choice is not made during the Night, and therefore does not run the risk of intimidating a player who died during the Night’s shenanigans.
It’s easy to corroborate this; if Sarah’s intimidation powers were a Night power, how did they get used on Day 1?
I discovered that Sarah’s power worked in the first 24 hours when I PM’d our Mod with some questions, and included a comment along the lines of having missed the chance to intimidate on Day 1. I was told there was still a chance, so I took it. Every Day since, I’ve been sending the PMs within 24 hours of Daybreak, except Today, when I didn’t send the PM in time.
Sarah also sends players mad at the end of the Dawn period each Day, starting on Day 3. So one player would be driven mad on Day 3, two on Day 4, three on Day 5 and so on. Unfortunately, Day 3’s victim was not NBC; if it had been, no recruitment would have happened.
The other issue I have with Oredigger’s post above is that he’s urged me to commit suicide. I don’t think the Town can afford to lose a body for no gain right now. As things stand, there are 11 Townspeople and 4 T-1000s; we can withstand three mislynches without losing. If I were to seek Modkill, we’d be down to 10 Townsmen, and the third mislynch would be game over in favour of the T-1000s. At this point, I’m reduced to hoping that the madness has restricted itself to people who have little or nothing to lose.
I do, however, find it noteworthy that this is the second time Oredigger has proposed a plan that risks reducing the number of mislynches the Town can absorb before losing. His plan Yesterday for “confirming” him (which could not do so) could, had he been scum, have resulted in losing both a Townsman and the Vig. Reckless Townie not thinking things through, or scum floating plausible but flawed plans?
We’ll have to decide sooner or later.
Vote Count!
Complete Votes:
Zeriel: 1. NAF, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. Zeriel
NAF1138: 1.Oredigger77, 2. OAOW, 3. S. Rugger
AH: 1. dotchan, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. DiggitCamera
Boozy Squid: 1. NAF1138, 2. Zeriel, 3. Shadow Facts
Total Lost: 1. Diggit, 2. Zeriel, 3. Dotchan
DiggitCamera: 1. Zeriel, 2.OaOW, 3. S. Rugger
Santo Rugger: 1. Pollux Oil, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Shadow Facts
Oredigger: 1. dotchan, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. DiggitCamera
Incomplete Votes:
Shadow Facts: 1. Oredigger77, 2. NAF1138
OAOW: 1. Santo Rugger
Special Effects:
There are no special effects.
Santo Rugger: (11) (OAOW 1st, AH 2nd, Oredigger 2nd, Zeriel 2nd, NAF 3rd, DiggitCamera 3rd)
NAF1138: (8) (Boozy Squid 1st, Zeriel 1st, Shadow Facts 2nd)
Zeriel: (8) (DiggitCamera 1st, Boozy Squid 2nd, Total Lost 2nd, Zeriel 3rd)
dotchan: (7) (Oredigger 1st, AH 1st, Total Lost 3rd)
Oredigger77: (6) (ShadowFacts 1st, NAF 1st)
Diggit: (5) (Total Lost 1st, AH 3rd, Oredigger 3rd)
OAOW: (4) (NAF 2nd, DiggitCamera 2nd)
Pollux Oil: (3) (Santo Rugger 1st)
CatInASuit: (2) (Santo Rugger 2nd
Shadow Facts: (2) (Boozy Squid 3rd, Santo Rugger 3rd)
After more consideration, I’ve changed my mind. If Pollux Oil does not vote or post four times in the next 22 hours, he will be subbed out (If this happens, this game might hit the record for number of substitures).
Mhaye, is it announced who goes mad, or do you know who they are?
Is it going to be possible to verify any of the players remaining? How about the Docs? I’d sort it out, but I’d rather somebody with a power role do it. Can you please assign how we’re going to verify this, and who is going to do what? Fortunately, they’ll be able to use their Night actions before Dawn.
From the role PM and other discussions, the selection is 100% random and performed by Pedescribe; I have nothing to do with it.
I don’t believe he’d tell me who is driven mad. I am not immune to the effect (that he has told me). I wasn’t expecting a list, so not getting told “You have driven X mad” was no surprise.
We do know that he tells the insane players that they have been driven insane (he said so somewhere Today, I believe).
I’m thinking on it; unfortunately it appears that Squiddio was blocked last Night, and he’s the only person I can think of where an action is guaranteed to show up the following morning.
I’ll be back later this evening.
I am here, I am overworked, but I will be voting at some stage tomorrow. 
I understand this mainly because Pede told us as much way back in post # 464
Hey NAF why did you ask Pede a question in a PM that was answered in a post?
Sorry just noticed that. But I don’t think the technicality of dawn versus Night really matters except that your insanity power can be blocked with a night action.
I think this is just a difference in strategy, probably because I’ve only played in three games, I think town needs to take risks in order to put the scum in precarious positions. While you’re hoping that the madness only hits people who have nothing to lose all a scum has to do now is come forward and claim to be the vig driven to insanity. No one has claimed to be driven insane which either means it hit scum or someone who is away (pollux).
Right now we have people picking randomly from the vanilla pool how is that not going to cost us at least one mislynch? If instead we followed my plan the absolute worst thing that could have happened was the equivalent of a mislynch but we would have picked up at least one confirmed townie and possibly two. This would allow us to have someone confirmed making the decisions about who’s blocking who and how we are going to go about confirming people. Instead we still are probably going to have that one mislynch but we’ll gain nothing beyond shrinking the pool for half the scum to hide in.
The internet connectivity issue should be resolved soonish, depending on how soon i can get a new ethernet cable from my ISP (at almost $50 a month, I’d better get a replacement cable for free, even if I can’t prove that the faulty one came from them and not somewhere else).
In the meantime,
**1. vote NAF
2. vote dotchan (placeholder)
3. vote mhaye (placeholder)
**
The vote for NAF is pretty much a coin flip, since based on what I could read I didn’t have strong suspicions one way or another. The placeholder vote for mhaye doesn’t mean anything at this point, except that I figure Sarah Conner is one role we can afford to lose (especially given the insanity thing).
If I have more time, I’m going to examine how NBC ended up on the lynch block. IIRC the scum don’t know who the Jester is (please correct me if I’m wrong) but my gut says that scum would have been more reckless with their votes since they would benefit regardless of whether the bandwagon leader was Town or the Jester.
Really, dotchan? You’re voting for one of our claimed doctors based on a coin flip? Really? Between that vote and story’s relentless pursuit of NBC, I feel quite confident with a:
1. Vote DeathByStoryteller
2. Vote ShadowFacts
3. Vote Santo Rugger
The ShadowFacts vote is because of his wishy-washy, “have-my-cake-and-eat-it-to” vote early and something I can’t give more substance than “he’s been pinging me”. The same with Rugger: he’s just felt off to me in this game.
Well, it’s nearing 12 hours until the end of the day, so I need to get my official vote in. As I stated before, we know that at least one of NAF and Oredigger are scum, and 50% is about as good as it ever gets, so that’s where I think we should go. After a review of the last couple of Days, I will be placing my vote on Oredigger.
In Post 1021, he votes for Zeriel because of a corrected slip of the tongue when Zeriel voted. This struck me at the time as scummy opportunism (and still does, actually). I commented on this at the time in 1026 - see that post for more detail.
Of course, then we have the infamous Post 1072:
I think Santo said it best on that idea:
That was a totally anti-town idea wrapped in a thin veneer of supposedly pro-town intention.
Then there was this exchange with NAF about NAF’s night strategy:
This one is a little subtle, so bear with me. Assume for a moment that Oredigger is town and NAF is scum. Ore knows that he’s Town and thus that NAF is lying scum, and the most obvious interpretation of NAF’s ‘confusion’ from that perspective is that NAF is lying his ass off. But Oredigger admits that NAF might have gotten confused about what the plan was. Huh? If Ore was really convinced that NAF was scum, there’s no way he would admit that as a possibility, because it would make no sense - if NAF is scum he would have to be lying. Seems to me that Ore was trying to play “reasonable” there, and would only need to do that if he were scum.
On the other side of the balance sheet, I do think that NAF’s confusion about the plan was very “convenient.” But Almost Human posted a summary of the sequence that demonstrated that such confusion was at least plausible. I wasn’t able to dig up much else on NAF I thought was scummy, and as far as I can tell no one else has, either.
I should probably also mention that I think Oredigger voting early toDay even though his vote was owned by the Politician was just an innocent slip and a null tell.
Vote:
1. Oredigger77
**2. Pollux Oil **(stop lurking!)
3. ShadowFacts (placeholder)
Have done a brief read of the Day again.
I would like to resolve the Paranoid Doc issue toDay but if everyone else thinks we can afford to let them go round again so be it. This does of course assume the town Paranoid Doc has not already gone insane. After that and I think it starts to get more complicated.
So that leaves fishing in the vanilla pool, as the next best plan at the moment in absence of lynching one of the claimed docs.
**1. Santo Rugger
2. Zeriel
3. Oredigger
**
Santo - because I still think he is scummy and his behaviour is getting stranger.
Zeriel - still feeling scummy but not as much as before.
Oredigger - because I think he is the scummier of the two paranoid docs and is a placeholder
Although at this rate we could wind up with an 11th Hour vote for Pollux Oil.
Reading back over the post analysis of NAF and Oredigger makes me think that Oredigger has been trying to find ways of blocking which will have no impact or be detrimental to the town. There is more content in his posts than NAF, but a lot of it is more anti-town. If I had to ask myself what his motivation was, I would say that confusion and directing power roles with a hint of fishing.
Of the two, I believe that Oredigger is more likely scum than NAF and would be happy with his lynch toDay, but if it looks like we can confirm it overNight I am happy to wait it out.
This does mean no more “But I thought you said” which I can just see occuring again. :rolleyes:
Because I don’t like playing as town, and I dislike playing Vanilla town even more. I kind of feel like I’m shagging balls while everybody else gets to do batting practice. But, I like to take batting practice, so I shag the balls.
What have I got as Vanilla besides my thoughts and my vote? Well, I was optimistic that we wouldn’t lynch the Jester too soon, and since I was in the first-to-be-lynched pool, I figured I’d take a different course of action. I tried to use my thoughts. In past games I’ve hung really heavily, regardless of my alignment, on little slips that people have made. Now, don’t get me wrong, I still think those are important. However, that hasn’t made me a good little scum hunter. So I’ve been trying out a new approach.
Shake things up, come up with ideas that may help the town figure out who the scum are based on the game setup. My ideas have been very controversial, but I’ve come up with a lot of them. Some of them may be good, some of them may be bad, but they all have reasonable explanations that could help us in one of the first closed set up games we’ve had in awhile.
I thought it was quite ironic when **NAF and Oredigger ** claimed the same role, because I’ve been admiring both of their play styles lately.
NAF has been preaching (in this game, as well as past games) that we need to develop a new way to ferret out scum. Our old ways aren’t working. Town is getting lazy. I think he’s got a fairly robust system, but unfortunately he hasn’t been able to articulate it well enough for the rest of us to figure out.
Oredigger, on the other hand, tends to come out of the gate with ideas that he knows are going to cause controversy. He states ideas that he knows a lot of people won’t agree with. What does it do? It forces people to take sides. Not only to take the side, but to defend that position. Now, I haven’t really seen the fruits of that quite yet, but he’s still feeling out his style, and I think at some point he’ll be able to hone in on a strategy that works for him as a player.
Me, on the other hand, is a different story. I’ve played town way too much lately, and it’s starting to get lame. Not so much because of being town, but because since my first several games were as scum. I never really learned how to play as town. So, my strategies has just been to try to find inconsistencies and gotcha yas. It’s worked a couple times, but it’s also cost me, because I’ve been focusing on the page I’m on and not really going back. This game I tried to get a bigger picture of the game as a whole. Who’s interacting with what. It was quite nice having so many confirmed Yesterday, though. So nice, that I got a bit lazy and started going back to my old ways. I made a few mistakes about the game setup that Rysto so nicely corrected me on. I have a few thoughts, though, which I’ll try to share in a moment (don’t worry, no magic bag here).
So, here we go. There’s a fair chance I’m going to be lynched today, so I’m going to put it all on the table. Now, I don’t expect you all to follow this when I die; I may be very, very wrong. However, I think that, as NAF has said, hopefully if we can get people to “think like me”, at least this time, that we may be able to get somewhere.
DeathByStoryteller - Holy crap. story has the ability to throw me for a loop. I’ve got so much respect for the guy, that I often just follow blindly whatever he says. That’s hurt me in the past, and I’d rather not have it happen again. But, fuck. His Bo Jackson story was pure bliss. I don’t know how many of you played Tecmo Bowl on the original NES, but if you were the Oakland Raiders (before they moved to LA), he’s totally right, you could totally hike the ball straight to Bo Knows and get a guaranteed first down every single time, and rush for over 1,000 yards in a single game.
Now, the retrospective question is, did he really need to go into that much detail. Granted, he’s into the performing arts and such, so probably really got into the story regardless of his alignment. But it just seems a bit too heart wrenching in retrospect. Don’t get me wrong, if we hadn’t lynched the Jester, we’d be on easy street here pretty quick.
Which brings me to my next point. story has a great power of persuasion. I like to think that’s what makes me follow him blindly sometimes, and not that I’m a total sheep. So, who did he attack? Why, NBC, who was later revealed to be the Jester. It was mentioned while it was ongoing that the argument felt contrived. Now, a lot of it happened on Day 1, so it was also mentioned that scum might not have been able to talk yet. Who cares! We can’t realistically think that NBC wouldn’t have noticed story was picking on him, known that he had to get lynched, and entered into a fake argument together with no private collusion.
I was really on the fence on this issue, and I believe** Rysto** described it as banging his head on a wall until the scum would never do that thought went away. So I banged my head and banged my head, but when dotchan came in and tossed in a vote for a potential Doc, one that can potentially block a night kill and gain us a mislynch, by the “flip of a coin”? Seriously,** DBI**, WTF?
More to come…
Okay, CatInA has really been pinging me hard this game. I’m sure a lot of it is OMGUS, but I just feel like he’s really been attacking me because of my ideas this game. Like I said in my above post, I think I’ve come up with some pretty novel ideas in this game. Now, some of them may be good, some of them may be bad, and some of them may be mediocre. However, I just feel like CatInA has really pushed hard at me. What better way as scum to win the game for your team than to pick somebody with controversial ideas and hound them until the town decided to lynch them. Granted, a lot of people have been suspicious of my ideas, but how are we ever going to break through the barrier of letting the power roles do all the lifting for us without novel ideas? It just really feels to me like scum trying to go for an easy kill.
Sorry this post wasn’t as eloquent, I’m starting to get tired, which I’ve been for pretty much the whole game. Going to work when the sun hasn’t risen really sucks.
Hope I’m alive Tomorrow to post some more coherent thoughts, but if not, will you guys at least go back and read the above two posts when you wake up in the Morning?
P.S. The votes are pretty close there at second place. I think dotchan may be trying to get NAF lynched instead of Ordigger (assuming she’s scum, of course).
Hi hi hi. I see all the lurkspankyspank votes and the pointed fingers. I’m here, I’m not going to get myself modkilled or put you in a position to vote me instead of somebody else you’re actually suspicious of. I’m town. Of course you can’t know that for sure until I’m lynched or dead, but whatever. I’ve been trying to get my head in the game but maybe it’s because I subbed in…I just can’t focus on the game as much as I want to.
My thoughts are that the scum are more likely to pick a power role than a vanilla to jesterize, simply because we’re scouring through the vanilla pool already. Why give us a better chance of finding a scum during our vanilla purge? My guess is they’ll probably kill off one or two power roles, then go to vanilla killing and try to get us to off our own power roles in search of the Jester.
My votes:
1. Dotchan formerly known as Storyteller
2. Zeriel
3. Oredigger
Dotchan because I took a look back at the early posts in an attempt to get my head in the game, and storyteller was all over NBC like a donkey eating a waffle right out of the gate. Also, he was seriously strong-willed about the mass claim idea and following it through. Now, storyteller is a smart player and I had the privilege on playing on his side as scum once. Would he make such an obvious charge knowing that as soon as the Jester died storyteller would get the big ol’ stinkeye, especially if he claimed vanilla? Would storyteller-as-scum think that the possibility of him being lynched immediately after NBC is worth the trade-off of scum A) knowing all the power roles, B) being able to steal a power role from the town, and C) causing mass confusion in the townies and having them possibly lynch their own power roles?
My gut feeling is yes, storyteller would think that trade-off was fair. So that plus dotchan’s inexplicably strange vote now gets her for #1.
Zeriel next because I still have strong leftover vibes from Cookies’ performance before she subbed out. It’s still a combination of Cookies’ actions plus a gut feeling.
Third is Oredigger, because I approve of waiting until tomorrow to lynch Oredigger or NAF and seeing how the Night actions go. But I’m suspicious of Oredigger over NAF because of the way he’s been acting.
I don’t think Rugger is scum. I don’t get that vibe from what he’s said.
So, Santo Rugger asked me for a way to confirm as many power roles as possible. I’ve tried to do this, although I’m no Baldrick (probably a good thing overall) and Cunning Plans are not really my forte. But let’s float the following.
Squiddio, please come see your old Ma tonight. I’m sure I can answer whatever question you have.
Almost Human, please make sure that you use your power as well. It’s important that you pick someone who is known or at least widely believed not to be a T-1000 so as to eliminate the possibility of collusion Overnight. It’s been mooted that you buy NAF’s vote. Either do that, or buy the vote of any of the other uncounterclaimed power role players (myself, OaOW, Rysto, Squiddio or Total Lost). If you can wait until after Daybreak and pick your subject in the 24 hours of Dawn, please do so (that will ensure you’re not buying a dead player’s vote).
NAF, please protect Almost Human.
Oredigger, please protect Total Lost.
I’m not going to tell or even suggest to Total Lost who she should protect Tonight, but she should certainly use her power on someone. I will ask Rysto not to interfere with the suggestions to the Paranoid Doc claimants or the Politician, though.
I don’t think the scum will want to resolve the question of the T-1000s for us Tonight, so the protection scheme ensures both Almost Human and Total Lost survive the Night. If one dies, we lynch the Doc claimant supposed to protect the dead person (or decide to leave them to the Vig the following Night, assuming there is one).
This may confirm up to three people, depending on the results of Night powers.
I know there’s not much time (six hours) but I’ll be around for at least the last 90 minutes of the Day to review suggestions.
MHaye I’m happy to buy NAF’s vote but if he is the paranoid doc then he’d stop me from doing that by blocking and protecting me which means I could confirm him as legit but the rest of you wouldn’t know if I was telling the truth or not.
Typing out loud so sorry if this doesn’t make too much sense. But if OD’s scum then my saying I bought his vote isn’t confirmed as I could have been jestered.
If NAF’s legit then by him blocking and protecting me he’s confirmed but I’m still not so is there another way to do it so we can both be confirmed?
Wouldn’t it make more sense for me to buy his (NAF’s) vote and him to protect/block someone else?
Actually this is the first time I’ve played with a paranoid doc. I’m assuming they have to both block and protect but if they can choose to do just the protecting then my argument’s moot.
The problem is that I can’t see a way in which everyone can be confirmed in one Night. Someone has to be the odd-person-out that does not get confirmed this Night.
By asking either of the PDs to protect you, I’m almost certain that you will get another chance to get confirmed Tomorrow night. If we were to rearrange it so that NAF protects BS PI instead that’s fine; but it puts you in the pool of players that Total Lost is playing WIFOM with the T-1000s over. You might not wake up though.