Mafia: The Conspiracy

[Rysto]

I expect this goes without saying but until sachertorte’s claim is validated by Pleonast we can’t use his information. We have no idea whether this information is correct and it’s possible that sachertorte is scum and is trying to lead us wrong for a Day before getting lynched himself. I know that it’s tempting to follow up what could be our first piece of solid information, but we can’t afford to take the chance that sachertorte is scum.

amr’s death is no surprise; the scum wouldn’t want a confirmed Freemason who can validate any Freemason claim around. Fretful’s death is a mystery to me at this point; he’s not been on my radar at all.

@Idle Thoughts

I’m not. And people all jumped on MHaye for telling others “how to play the game”?

I’d think that was a bit more.

The faster people vote and all pile on one another, the more roleclaims we’re going to have that I can’t see being good for Town, but great for the baddies.

This is an infinitely better situation than what happened in Day One, where we had mass confusion in the last few hours. Getting the votes in a mere 24 hours early is nothing when a Day lasts 120. We need the time to discuss the role claims and decide what to do from there. We can’t decide ahead of time for two reasons:

There’s way too many possible roleclaims for us to fully appreciate all of the subtleties of any one roleclaim. For example, just yesterDay I said that a Werewolf would be happy to kill a claimed Seer because they’ll either kill the real Seer or opposing scum like the Vampire. Of course, the Vampire can’t be night-killed by the Wolves so that was a nonsense piece of reasoning.

Second, planning our strategy ahead of time and letting the scum know what it is only serves to tell the scum exactly what kind of roleclaim will work. This is not a good idea. We’re far better off to get the votes in a bit early and then spend the last 24 hours deciding how to deal with our roleclaim. We’ll waste far less time discussing scenarios that will never happen and we won’t telegraph our intentions to the scum.

[DiggitCamara]

[QUOTE=Kat]
I was going to post: Why would he want to do that? To give the scum premature information on which pro-Town role they don’t have to worry about any more?

But then I remembered (and re-checked) that amrussell had claimed Freemason, which there’s got to be more of anyway, since it’d be damn silly to have a single Freemason.
[/QUOTE]

It’s a very interesting thing, though.

1. One and Only Wanderers certainly false claimed. After all, he claimed after amrussell already had claimed. **amrussell **showed exactly how a freemason should claim

@Pleonast

Among the loyal Town residents are the Freemasons, an organization so secretive that it doesn’t even know its own membership. Fortunately, each Freemason does know the secret handsign that can be used to covertly identity another member. The Scotsman is hardy soul, and while somewhat shy, can readily defend himself against an attack. The Vigilante, on the other hand, is perfectly prepared to take matters into his own hands, if only he knew who to target. He’d deeply regret making a mistake. The Magician is a sly trickster and escape artist. He has devised an elaborate gimmick to elude an attacker.

Why would a freemason claim his specific role instead of just claiming freemason?

2. amrussell’s death is interesting as well. Of the described roles, for freemasons, two are able to elude at least one death. Did **amrussell ** cause Fretful’s death? Was he doubly targeted?

So: if sachertorte is a false coroner, he actually told us which group he belongs to as well (he’d have known at least one of the two deaths so far; I’m guessing he knew One and Only Wanderers alignment, for this case). He’d be counting on a resurrection of the other dead player (Fretful Porpentine) as a zombie so we wouldn’t get told what alignment she was prior to being zombified.

[Kat]

Er…I think the Freemasons, the Scotsman/Scotsmen, Vigilante(s) and Magician(s) are all separate and distinct roles.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Er, what? Are the Scotsman, Vigilante, and Magician all Freemasons as well? I thought the Freemasons were a seperate group.

[DiggitCamara]

[QUOTE=Kat]
Er…I think the Freemasons, the Scotsman/Scotsmen, Vigilante(s) and Magician(s) are all separate and distinct roles.
[/QUOTE]

I may very well be mistaken. But they are in one paragraph in the flavor text.

[HazelNutCoffee]

But the Masons are a role, not a side. I don’t think it’s possible for players to have 2 roles. Could Pleonast confirm?

[Pleonast]

Each bolded identifier in the color text is a separate Role. See the rules doc for the Powers of each Role.

[DiggitCamara]

OK. I’ll shut up now. :o

[ShadowFacts]

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
The faster people vote and all pile on one another, the more roleclaims we’re going to have that I can’t see being good for Town, but great for the baddies.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure that the more time we have, the more roleclaims we’re going to get. What we have now is a situation where, somewhere near the deadline, the lynchee claims. Because there are only a few hours left, many players feel *obliged *to honor that roleclaim and immediately unvote, not wanting to lynch a potential power role. (And of course, scum claiming in this way pretty much get a free pass for a time). This causes someone else to get in line on the lynchmobile, rinse and repeat.

Now, if we have 24 hours to work with, there is much less pressure to unvote and we can force the claimee to explain him- or herself. As the days go on, there will be more data to go on as well. There will be time for a consensus to form as to whether we believe the claim or not; there will be time for people to confirm membership in a known group (if they want); there will be time for the lynchee to explain breadcrumbs they may have dropped; there will be time for investigators to reveal information; etc. etc.

It’s also possible that a Townie may decide NOT to roleclaim, since there are 24 hours to go, and try to get out of the noose without revealing their identity. In which case, having more time could result in less roleclaims.

We’ve all seen it in game after game here: time pressure causes the town to do rash and ill-conceived things, which only benefits scum.

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]
While I do agree people shouldn’t all vote at the last minute in one huge rush, I think most (Town) are smart enough to leave some leeway in for roleclaims and having time to unvote if needed.
[/QUOTE]

Didn’t work out so hot yesterDay.

PS. Making a proposal and putting it up for discussion is not what I would call “telling others how to play.” YMMV.

[ShadowFacts]

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
On that note: sachertorte, could you inform us amrussell’s “Role”?
[/QUOTE]

While you’re at it, please include Fretful Porcupine’s “Role”. You said Alignment: Wolf, but it could be the Alpha or Omega role (or just simple Wolf).

And, assuming we’re correct and you do in fact have this information, why didn’t you come out with it initially?

[Drain_Bead]

DiggitCamera’s little booboo here has told me that he’s not a Freemason, Scotsman, Vig, or Magician, otherwise I’m guessing he would have known that they were separate roles. I went to check the rules to see if any of that could give me insight as to what his role actually is, but nothing jumped out at me from there.

I am a bit concerned by his voting patterns, though. His first vote was to lynch a lurker early on Day One, which to me seems somewhat scummy. After that, he hopped on bandwagons without much elaboration. I think, when all is said and done, he had one post of any substance during the Day, which was to tell amrussell that his idea stunk.

For lack of anything else jumping out at me at the moment, I’m going to…

vote DiggitCamera

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
While you’re at it, please include Fretful Porcupine’s “Role”. You said Alignment: Wolf, but it could be the Alpha or Omega role (or just simple Wolf).

And, assuming we’re correct and you do in fact have this information, why didn’t you come out with it initially?
[/QUOTE]

Both Cabal and Wolf are roles, in addition to alignment, as far as I know. Town, on the other hand, is clearly a Role, when the rules specifically state aligment. I’m up for leaving sache be until he clearly screws up.

I’m also pretty sure Masons are a Role with the alignment of Town. Scotsman, Vig, Magician et. al all seems to be other Roles, and so wouldn’t fall under the broad brush of Mason.

But woo-hoo! We killed us a Cabalist and a Wolfie! 2 down, and x-2 to go!

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

Oh, I’ll just add that it makes perfect sense to me that the wolves would have killed amrussel: if he’d been left alive, he could have confirmed/denied any Mason claim, because they all would have given him the secret handshake yesterDay. It will be helpful to have a confirmed Mason otued with that info, as it will help the town later in Omega Wolf hunting.

[ShadowFacts]

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Both Cabal and Wolf are roles, in addition to alignment, as far as I know. Town, on the other hand, is clearly a Role, when the rules specifically state aligment. I’m up for leaving sache be until he clearly screws up.
[/QUOTE]

I think you have the Town part wrong. According to the Rules, there are 4 sides (Town, Wolf, Undead, Cabal). Among those 4 Sides there are many different Roles. Town is not a Role, it is a Side. Coroner is a role.

Now, sachertorte’s reveal was somewhat ambiguous. He said:

[QUOTE=sachertorte]
Congratulations Town you lynched One And Only Wanderers; Alignment: Cabal.

Autopsy of amrussell confirms town loyalty; Alignment: Town.
Autopsy of Fretful Porpentine reveals unnatural furriness; Alignment: Wolf.
[/Quote]

I assume by “Alignment” he means “Side.” But even that is not clear, because Cabal is both a Side and a Role (since there are no specific Cabal Roles) and Wolf could be both a Side and a Role. But Town is clearly **not **a Role. It is a Side.

Accord to the rules, the Coroner description reads thus:
“Coroner: will automatically know the **Role **of each dead Player, even ones under the enchantment of the Witchdoctor.”

(bolding mine)

So the questions stand:

1. What are the Roles of the dead players?
2. Why did **sachertorte **reveal only the Sides (Alignments) and not the Roles?

[QUOTE=Diomedes]
But woo-hoo! We killed us a Cabalist and a Wolfie! 2 down, and x-2 to go!
[/QUOTE]

Like Rysto, I would caution us being sure of sachertorte’s info until it is confirmed toMorrow and the next Day (particularly in light of what I’ve just posted). To be honest, it seems a foolish move for scum to claim Coroner, since it is fairly easily tested, but who knows? Maybe two Days of confusion and wrong assumptions leading to bad lynches is worth it? Better safe than sorry and not pat ourselves on the back just yet.

[Pleonast]

Rules Clarifications

A Zombie’s original Side and Role will be revealed on the usual schedule.

A Player who comes back to life because of the Witchdoctor will not have his Side revealed (he will come back to life when it would have been revealed).

Roles have the Powers listed in the rules. If there’s ambiguity, I will clarify them.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
I think you have the Town part wrong. According to the Rules, there are 4 sides (Town, Wolf, Undead, Cabal). Among those 4 Sides there are many different Roles. Town is not a Role, it is a Side. Coroner is a role.
[/quote]

You’re totall yright. I was reversing them in my mind. Town is alignment.. .other things are roles. Read what I meant, not what I wrote!

1. What are the Roles of the dead players?
2. Why did **sachertorte **reveal only the Sides (Alignments) and not the Roles?

Like Rysto, I would caution us being sure of sachertorte’s info until it is confirmed toMorrow and the next Day (particularly in light of what I’ve just posted). To be honest, it seems a foolish move for scum to claim Coroner, since it is fairly easily tested, but who knows? Maybe two Days of confusion and wrong assumptions leading to bad lynches is worth it? Better safe than sorry and not pat ourselves on the back just yet.

I’m somewhat suspect of sache for those same reasons, especially because if I was the coroner, and Pleo gave me the info, I would never even think to pare off the Role, and just give the Alignment. Nevertheless, it doesn’t hurt to give the guy a little credence until we have reason to doubt him. When he does, we can kill him.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I am trying to think of a reason why sacher would not reveal the specific Role of a Townsperson. Someone’s already mentioned that it might beneift the scum; but the Role is going to be publicly announced anyway eventually, so that doesn’t make much sense. I guess we’ll just have to wait for sacher to explain.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
I am trying to think of a reason why sacher would not reveal the specific Role of a Townsperson. Someone’s already mentioned that it might beneift the scum; but the Role is going to be publicly announced anyway eventually, so that doesn’t make much sense. I guess we’ll just have to wait for sacher to explain.
[/QUOTE]

There is one thing: If the person was enchanted by the Witch Doctor, they’ll come back to life, without having revealed their identity. If amrussel was a Witch, or Seer, or even the WD, and claimed freemason in order to give himself some more time to be able to give the town some information (thinking that the scum woulnd’t bother trying to kill a Mason), it would make sense for the coroner to want to hide that information pending the results of ressurection.

[Freudian_Slit]

My rationale for trying to get votes in 24 hours ahead of time boils down to the fact that the boards went down. Either way, people will role claim, but if there’s literally no time for any of that, we’re screwed. Plus, it’s a long weekend, so a lot of people may not be around on the actual Monday.

[QUOTE=Drain Bead]
DiggitCamera’s little booboo here has told me that he’s not a Freemason, Scotsman, Vig, or Magician, otherwise I’m guessing he would have known that they were separate roles. I went to check the rules to see if any of that could give me insight as to what his role actually is, but nothing jumped out at me from there.
[/QUOTE]

This jumps out at me, too. Not a good sign.

vote Diggit Camera

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

[QUOTE=Zoggie]
My rationale for trying to get votes in 24 hours ahead of time boils down to the fact that the boards went down. Either way, people will role claim, but if there’s literally no time for any of that, we’re screwed. Plus, it’s a long weekend, so a lot of people may not be around on the actual Monday.

This jumps out at me, too. Not a good sign.

vote Diggit Camera
[/QUOTE]

So he could still be a Witch, Detective, Vicar, Seer, Coroner? That’s up to one of 7 roles, and you’re voting for him because it’s highly unlikely that he’s one of the minor pro-town roles?

I’m keeping a FOS on you, Zoggie. You too, drain.