So there’s no set tradition, then? That’s kind of surprising actually.
I suppose no one’s gonna answer about why Night has to last longer than one real day? I found that incredibly frustrating in De’endee, but perhaps it was more so because we Townies weren’t allowed to do anything useful so there was this long, silent dread-filled longeur while we waited to find out on whom the axe fell.
Oh, I’m pretty sure you think I’m not very subtle. I also think you think I don’t know that you think I’m not very subtle.
I know it’s pathetic, but my default position is generally to expect that people don’t think well of me – or, more likely, that they don’t think of me at all – so I’m always surprised when these expectations turn out wrong.
Night lasts longer than 1 day because traditionally night has lasted longer than 1 day. It’s a weak answer, but you know how folks get about traditions. Ultimately, I think it’s to ensure the scum team has enough time to coordinate their decisions about power usage and night kill(s), so that if real-life stuff interferes, scum can still plan.
Also, since this is the second time you’ve mentioned it, I’d like to point out that De’endee allowed town discussion at any time, Day or Night. Says so right here in post #1 of the game, rule number 5. Just cuz you guys chose not to do much talking doesn’t mean it wasn’t allowed.
Again, remember that when we started playing, Scum rarely could daytalk so nights were longer than one night to give them an opportunity to chat and scheme. Also, especially on a board like this, it would be a little sucky if night only lasted 12 hours and I was on a scum team with someone in Africa or Australia. One of us would have to really change their sleep habits every so often. Added to that is that we play a more laconic version of mafia than oh, say, the poggers and we need the extra days to wring as much advantage out as we can.
I’m not going to be coy. Choie, asking about how night powers work in this game means one of two things. Either you’re not a power role and are outing yourself as vanilla in a roundabout way or you’re ingenuously asking a question so that suspicious dicks like me will think you’re outing yourself as vanilla in a roundabout way.
it’s early and I haven’t had my coffee yet, so apologies if I make any less sense, or any more typos than usual
I can’t decide if this case is overly emotional/defensive or just tongue-in-cheek; either way, it’s a little weak - the only salient point in it is the claim of mischaracterization, which I’m not (yet) convinced is true.
this is a decent case; I may have to upgrade ed from neutral to lean scum
it’s hardly random; I commented earlier on your ‘bitchy’ tone, and if I recall, it’s been mentioned in previous games.
I’m not convinced that a tie here was actually a dilemma, but I’m certainly open to being convinced otherwise - can you describe a scenario where Astral and I might have something to gain from a 3-way tie? if I am later convinced, or if I’m in the minority on this opinion, it might be worth noting that at least one active player was online in the final minutes and chose not to make a swing vote:
thank you; I knew I’d read it somewhere but couldn’t find it for some reason (this motivated me to add a new bookmarklet to my collection of mafia-related post filters). also, I actually predicted to myself that if this had been previously asked, it would be you that pointed it out.
it could just be my ignorance, but can you explain why a tie here is a scum advantage? it seems to me that the unbroken tie allows us to speculate on why it was unbroken and how that shines on the surviving two players, while a straight-up lynch of fisha provides us almost nothing. is there a big picture percentage disadvantage that I’m not seeing?
just to be clear, PCM didn’t vote to save himself because he wasn’t online in time to do so, not because it was the noble thing to do. having said that, he did volunteer that fact himself, which has a town-lean to it as well, but perhaps less so.
Well day in a couple of hours, personally I am not a huge fan of scum being able to talk during the day - it gives them quite an advantage, and I don’t see much of an offsetting advantage to town talking strategy at night , if anything it is more of an opportunity to give away power roles. That said it does keep the chat in the game going. Fluff at night is always good as it may help deflate some of the in game tension that can arise after several days of false accusations and slander.
Fubbleskag
I would say it is a scum advantage as they don;t actively have to do anything to save a scum thus potentially exposing another scum, and they don’t risk loosing a scum in the tie break.
It may give the remaining two a slight town shine, but really that will be forgotten quickly as no one is confirmed until they are dead. So a tie between townies is better than a tie with scum in the mix, for scum.
So really a "least bad outcome for scum " rather than a “scum advantage”
I’d also like to understand why the tie was good for scum. If, as many think, the ending is a strong Town tell for PCM and wevets, it would seem pro-Town, giving us two likely Townies.
I’d like to hear experienced players comment on the following hypothetical scenario. Suppose A and B are tied and A moves his vote to Lynch B at the last minute; then C comes in the final seconds to vote A; B loses the tie-breaker, is Lynched, flips Town. Now, A will come under Lynch pressure. Suppose he is Lynched and flips Scum. Will this give C excellent Town cred? Or will Townies worry it was all a Scum show?
Applying this to our game, if PCM or wevets is Scum, mightn’t we have expected some other Scum to show up and vote him in the ending (perhaps after that Scum breaks the tie), hoping to get Town cred? Since nothing like that happened, is it a good inference to assume PCM and wevets are both Town? (Another reason for Scum to have tried this ploy, is that we’d end up wasting Day 2 reacting to the ploy rather than doing other scum-hunting.)
throwing a fellow scum under the bus to get town credit has been used, it worked, then it didn’t now it is a strategy that falls into the “scum wouldn’t do that , so maybe they would” category. basically it is not possible to know which way it goes.
I am not sure you can apply your hypothetical to our situation, as it was a 3 way tie as opposed to a two way tie, and none of the tied voters switched and no one stepped in, so applying a dissimilar theoretical to fathom out what happened in the actual may not be helpful.
I would still say that a 3 way tie of three townies is better for scum than any other option, as they do not have to make any risky moves, and the two remaining are still in no way confirmed as town and it can keep the fuzzy suspicion on the two remaining. I know I am town, I have a slight town lean on Wevets but that doesn’t clear him in my eyes as I have no idea what his alignment is.
Anyway, morning should be with us soon, so we may know more.
No, I grok tradition, that makes sense. So then I’m guessing that it arose because traditionally they haven’t been allowed to talk during the Day? This way having extra time during the Night would be kind of a release for the poor little scummy bastards.
(Oh. Later on Inner confirms this, so cool. I get it.)
Oh holy crap, you’re right. Why the heck did I not remember that? I’m sorry, I definitely didn’t mean to impugn the planning of that game, I just really could’ve sworn we’d all started talking about recipes once Nightfall hit. Must be confusing it with one of the other games i’d read about over the summer just prior to playing.
Wow. Thanks, Astral Rejection. No, I definitely wasn’t fishing, but I appreciate that greatly. Maybe toward the middle/end of the game, but even my improved participation became a distraction 'cause pizzaguy and Normal were certain that only scum would improve during the course of a game.
So first-time Townies, keep that in mind: even if you start playing better as time goes on, that’ll come across as a scum!
Poggers? People who collect pogs?
I suppose I should assume that “we need the extra day” as a slip of the tongue, right? Or you meant the royal “we”?
…Or irrespective of my vanilla/powery goodness state, I just wanted to know? There’s a lot I still don’t quite fathom about this game. (BTW I think you mean “disingenuously” here. “Ingenuous” is what I actually am; “disingenuous” means not open, or behaving with intent to deceive.)
All you gots to do is look at my posts and count the number of times I kvetched about the first day sucking. I don’t think “twice” out of a dozen (at the time) counts as “constantly,” so that’s why I mentioned mischaracterization.
But the rest of it was pretty much just tongue-in-cheek. Except for my not liking the rationale for Inner’s fisha vote, which in retrospect seems was a good instinct on my part but was probably coincidental.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I was a bit surprised that Mahaloth thought that was random, or smudging. Not only was it accurate, but it was again mostly just an inside joke (we were both in the recent Party Quirks game and I guessed his quirk, which was a very clever one–someone constantly going through the five stages of grief a la Kübler-Ross–that he played hilariously well).
Yeah, I have to agree that the vote itself didn’t seem purposely manipulated by scum to create a tie situation. The only way I can figure that working would be if
a) whoever hit the top-vote total first was scum, and then
b) s/he and the rest of his/her scum compatriots rushed to manipulate the votes so that the scum-in-danger had competition, and
c) in order to avoid obvious detection as scum they distributed their four or five votes (assuming that’s how many scum members are in the game) among fisha and the other presumably town candidates, and
d) since they ran out of votes they were stuck hoping that at least now they’d created a situation that would likely result in either one of us voting for the other candidates and thus tipping the scales, or at least a 67% probability that the scum candidate wouldn’t be chosen in case of a tie.
Whew. I don’t even know if that makes sense, but at least it’s one way the scum could’ve benefited from a tie. But it seems that usually scum are more than willing to let one of their own die, at least early in the game. So unless most of the scum are total newbies who are perforce less reckless/bold than more experienced scum would be… I don’t see the tie in and of itself being purposeful.
As it is, either way, we’re inclined to look closely at the votes for fisha and the other candidates. So they didn’t gain much except an early townie death, which let’s face it, isn’t a big deal (no offense fisha) aside from a general sense that “every Townie’s death diminishes me, for no Townie is an island.”
I think the suggestion that a 3 way tie is advantageous for scum is not so much that it is advantageous for scum to create a tie, but if a tie exist through the town not knowing who is who, it is good for scum as they don’t have to risk anything and a town lynch is assured. Town don’t really gain anything as the only people who know it was a three way town tie are the scum, so town is pretty much still in the dark.
So really we should get to carried away with it, because only Wevets and scum know what alignment wevets is , and only the scum and me truly know that I am town. (unless of course wevets is a 3rd party non town aligned , in which case only wevets knows that.
Wait. People don’t like me? First I’ve heard of it.
I did get choie’s joke, but yours seemed like a real dig.
So, cite that people have referred to my “bitchy” tone in any other game?
I have to say, that really hurts to hear that anyone thinks that. Seriously. Outside the game and all, that hurts to hear. I have no idea why anyone would think that.
Oh God, now I feel terrible. Please don’t be hurt! I don’t think it’s a matter of people not liking you at all or not liking have you as part of the game. Heck, at least for me, you totally made the PQ game. (And you were also a good co-mod for De’endee.) Don’t worry about it, it’s probably just a tone thing that seems to have been misconstrued. Tonewise, you’re sometimes a bit curt, or laconic as Inner would say, heh, so maybe that’s what fubbles is reacting to (and what I reacted to). Sometimes shortness can be misread as harshness, which translates to anger.
Inner, so you’re saying that my ingenuousness is making people think I’m being ingenuous, whereas I’m actually disingenuous? Man, wheels within wheels! I kinda love that I’m considered capable of that.
(I actually didn’t follow the Mystery Mafia game very closely at all – it went way too fast for me, and from what little I read of it, gameplay was more opaque than I could follow. So “poggers” are people from the IdleMafia board, or is this another Mafia-based board?)
Anyway, enough meta stuff. Right now I’d say the only people on whom I have any kind of reading are Inner (sorry), special ed and Precambrianmollusc, and the sad thing is that I can’t really quantify those feelings. fisha’s being revealed as Town is what sort of turns my almost-not-serious suspcion of Inner to a slightly more substantive one. (Thus proving even a stopped clock is right twice a day.) It doesn’t even rise to FOS territory, though.
special ed only gets a ping because of his posting style, which I think I had the same issue with back in the last game, and I don’t even remember if he was town or scum in that game. So yeah, not a very well-justified reasoning here.
PCM’s not remembering when Night ends, and his not being online to change his vote, and his pointing out that he wasn’t online so that people don’t think he was being noble… all that should read as Town to me. And yet I guess I’m having the same trouble with him that Inner is having with me (assuming Inner is Town, that is): it’s almost too Townie. If he were a newbie I’d be more inclined to believe that yes, he’s actually this Townie. But since he’s experienced – at least, I get that sense from his posts – he could definitely be saying all this just to seem hugely Townie.
This game really messes with my reasoning abilities.
