Yes I have.
I’ve presented what makes me more suspicious of you than of anyone else.
You may disagree with it. I cannot prove it, but it’s what I’ve got right now.
I think if you were to look at my past games you would find several times when I was perfectly okay with a lynch that was not my first choice. I think Svejk is possibly a mislynch. But my argument basically boils down to “there is too much scumminess surrounding him for him to actually be scum.” That is not an argument that I plan on making a major stand on.
I just listed those things as evidence along with evidence the other way. What do you disagree with as possible evidence of Svejk being scum?
Bleached.
[QUOTE=Mahaloth]
False or hasty? I’ll do hasty(well, quick, anyway) on Day One…don’t know about false since I don’t know who/what anyone is.
Vote Svejk for the random vote.
[/QUOTE]
Votes Svejk early in the game for a random vote.
Changes vote to fubbleskag after fubble abstains from voting. Later says it is more for the post than for the vote.
Votes Ed for his style and tone seeming different. This after it has been mentioned that Ed has changed his playstyle lately.
Votes choie for her tone.
I don’t really like any of these votes, but these last two I find particularly suspicious. Votes on players unlikely to be lynched with the reason being “tone”. Besides these vote posts, I do not recall him casting suspicion on (or really even mentioning) anyone except fubbleskag.
I feel Mahaloth is trying not to attract notice with his votes, but does not want to not vote.
Vote Mahaloth
This vote may change tomorrow evening after I have looked at some other players.
I am still not sure what you are getting at but this may be what you want answered, Svejk said that he might unvote me if someone** MORE** suspicious comes along. For another person to be** MORE** suspicious, I must have been suspicious in the first place! Svejk placed a random vote, the end, then he said** MORE**, that’s why I mentioned semantics. Yo cannot have more of anything if you don’t have anything in the first place!
I didn’t immediately place an OMGUS vote which was what I wanted to do and as people have pointed out, is what I would normally have done. I stayed quite about it and thought about it rationally, even though the vote against me wasn’t rational.
Been off Christmas shopping, and then time with wife when I got home, so haven’t had much of a chance to respond to posts the past few days. My last post (asking about the mod kill) was on my phone while christmas shopping, and you all know how hard it is to post on a phone… Doesn’t mean I haven’t been reading though…
My position doesn’t make sense? Well, I still suspect you from yesterday, I would have voted for you starting the day, however, proven townie Astral made a case that lynching Svejk would provide more information. I’m willing to accept his argument since I know it was from the heart…
What, you would I have rather I had voted for you from the start?
I would have voted for you, Scathach, at the start of day, however, I believe Astral’s idea that Svejk would be a better lynch, because if he comes up scum, I think it’s way more likely you’re scum… However, if he comes up innocent, I think he might really be just a townie worried about the votes on you.. Would that save you? No… But, it would give me more data in order to more properly judge you. Basically, it would make me give you the benefit of the doubt.. And would let me start to judge you from the beginning as scum or not, and not have my previous ideas hanging over my head.
While, If I just lynched you from the get go, and you turned up town, I would just think I was wrong, and lynch Svejk because of his change in bandwagons on a town.
Sure, would you mind linking to it? I even missed it, or forgot it if I saw it on my phone.
As I mentioned above, my main reason for voting for Svejk is because I think he’ll give me more information then a lynch of scathach. Svejk’s change of vote was more suspicious to me, and covers two possibilities to me:
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He doesn’t want to be linked to a townie bandwagon lynch, and we all know the 2nd or 3rd votes are most suspicious on a townie lynch, so changed to be the last vote on another townie. Or…
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He was trying to protect a scum mate who he thought was safe at first, then saw the change of votes, and wanted to protect his scum mate.
Of course, there is always the 3rd option, he is Innocent, and his vote is as he says it is… While that is a possibility, to me, it is farther down the possibility lists then options 1 and 2. So, I voted for who I found scummiest so far.
While we don’t know for sure he was correct in anything, we at least know his analysis was from the heart. While he might have been wrong, at least I can read his thoughts and know they aren’t from scum, so can take them as he meant them. To me, it is better to be led astray by a honest townie, then from a conniving scum.
For now, I’m going to stand by my vote…
OOG: I work two 12 hour shifts the next two days, so will skim the thread, but don’t know how much time I have to “think”…
When is End of Day? And can we have a current vote count?
I’ve had little to say this Day because my suspicion has not changed. Also, I think choie has changed a bit since my vote, which looks like trying to self-correct/hide.
Is it in anyway anti-town to list our suspect list in order? Anyway, my current suspect list from most scummy down is:
- Choie - play-style
- Special Ed - play-style
- Fubble - actually, I suspected Fubble before being insulted/attacked, so I kind of wonder if that was a huge distraction attempt by fubble. If so, not my preferred play-style, but possible. However, still 3rd for me.
Uh, I meant to bleach the vote on me, Trepaped. My bad.
I missed this post before I posted. Dude, do you need a sub? I think Day Two is still reasonable to get subbed out if you need one.
been very busy lately, only able to read sporadically, not really had a chance to post; admit - very unhelpful for town, but it is what it is
only have a minute, won’t be fixing typos
voted **Septimus **because it was my original vote, I hadn’t had time to review any of the other cases or build one of my own, and had already caught a boatload of shit from you lot for not voting; damned either way, it seems
fluiddruid welcome back; understand you’re trying to catch up, but if you’re going to comment on my voting, please catch up more thoroughly before doing so. also, your case against Svejk seems to me somewhat emotional/reactionary - almost as if you’re consciously baiting a new player so that you can then make a ‘smear’ accusation. consider yourself pinged, assuming I have time to review you more thoroughly before the next vote (and live that long, ell oh ell)
I’m leaning town for Svejk; the cases against him seem weak to me, and he seems genuinely disheartened at the prospect of being falsely lynched. also, as has been mentioned, he seems to be very good at this so far - I’d hate to see one of the better players mis-lynched (as opposed to mis-lynching me, who is notably terrible at this game)
for the moment, MentalGuy’s case on **Mahaloth **is the only thing that’s really struck with me
vote Mahaloth
a sub because he’s busy for 2 days?
I’ve read through the thread, but I still haven’t seen an acceptable explanation. Saying you voted septimus because it was your “original vote” doesn’t address his claim. So, to be explicit: why didn’t you address his claim? What were you thinking in voting for a claimed Doctor?
You and Svejk have both accused me of having bad motives. I’ll reiterate what I said: my first suspicion of Svejk was his intentional non-tie-breaking post. It’s not based on emotion, personal vengeance or whatever else. If you want to discuss it on the merits, let’s do – but there’s nothing else I can say if you want to keep summing it up in terms that are inaccurate and vague.
Besides, it really doesn’t make sense. If I’m responding emotionally or irrationally, that doesn’t make me scum – usually, knee-jerk OMGUS votes are Town, not Scum. So why the ping? I get that you disagree with me, but it seems like a scattershot approach to discredit me. You’re emotional! You’re just reacting to his post! You’re scummy! But they don’t go together.
FWIW I find your “me too” vote on Mahaloth weak. Can you at least explain why it’s resonant with you? Do you wholly agree with what he said? Do you have anything to add?
While I agree with the conclusion, I don’t think all of these are good evidence. Your reasons were
Specifically, I object to Astral’s death being a good reason for Svejk being scum. I don’t think it’s evidence the other way either – it’s just neutral to me. Killing your critics is a somewhat risky and clunky move. Certainly it has been done – and it’s a natural impulse to try – but at the same time it also makes sense to kill your critic’s critics. I’d consider it a null tell with the information we have at this point.
Late day votes are troublesome in some ways but in and of themselves are a null tell. I have freely moved votes end-of-day as Town many times. I hate to leave a useless vote on someone not in the running if I truly do have strong feelings about vote leaders. I’m not saying it can’t be a scum tell by any means – I just don’t like the argument as you’ve put it here, if it’s as general as it appears.
The posting pattern I do find troublesome, though specifically for Sjevk’s reasons behind it rather than the occurrence itself, but I’ve hashed that out pretty extensively.
Hope this answers your question.
Svejk, we’ve hashed out our disagreement pretty extensively, so I don’t want to keep centering a ton of my energy around it. Suffice it to say that I still am pointing a finger of suspicion your way. However, I genuinely didn’t understand or believe that you were trying to say that you were not participating because you were bummed out about being a vote candidate. This is less scummy put that way (though still ill-advisable) but at this point I think it’s only fair to accept your word that this is how it was intended. Nonetheless I would like to echo my previous sentiment that explanations are best made, and best made clearly, at the time rather than explained later, which gives too much wiggle-room for my taste.
However, I really object to the language you use towards me. If it’s not intentional smearing then I request that you stop. I’m not responding emotionally, I’m not exacting vengeance, I’m not feeling guilty – I have genuine suspicion towards you. I’m not, as you put it, “harping on and on” – I’m responding to your posts, and defending my position. I agree, as I put above, that we’ve pretty much exhausted this line of questioning and I’m willing to stop, but I think it’s only fair to point out that this type of language is what I’m considering a smear. If you think a line of discussion is pointless, that’s fine – express why. Calling my posts “harping” is only going to provoke me. That’s why I keep saying that you’re smearing – you’re using words that seem designed to provoke response or to cast me in an unfriendly light without using substance or fact.
In any case, my vote still lies with fubbleskag and I’m content with that.
Hirka, I have this in my notes: Day 3 ends at 10:00 AM MST, on Friday, Dec 16th.
Hmm. How has my play style changed? You voted for me pretty much right off the bat this Morning (er, I think). I don’t think I’ve been different. Do you mean I haven’t been making longer cases as I was during Day 2? The main reason for that is just that I’m all-too-cognizant that my case against Inner was dead wrong, even though I genuinely smelled scum there. So I’m kinda holding back on making major post-by-post analyses until I have a strong feeling one way or another.
Anyway, I’m trying to wrap my mind around the Svejk case. I have to say I recognize his disheartenment and subsequent lowered posting activity – it’s pretty much exactly the pattern that I fell into during my first game. I started getting defensive and a tad depressed that my words were being used against me. But that is the whole point of the game, y’know? People over-analyze everthing, that’s part of the masochistic/sadistic fun of Mafia.
So for me a newbie’s activity level and reluctance to post since the votes turned against him are kind of a null tell, because I understand how oddly personal it feels when a barrage of votes lands on you when you’re not used to it.
What I’d say to Svejk is that if you are town, you need to participate and develop a mental shield that lets you take the naysayers in stride. Don’t be so quick to defend yourself rather than looking for genuine scum–in my admittedly limited experience, this can work against you more than you realize. And if you do focus on scumhunting rather than your own defense, this way, even if you go down, you’ll have helped your team thanks to your participation, because a dead confirmed Townie’s words generally hold a tad more weight than anyone else’s other than a live confirmed Townie.
Of course, OTOH, if you’re scum, do whatever you want. We’ll hopefully suss you out in the end.
Anyway. This actually reminds me of something special ed said (at least I think it was him): I mentioned four scenarios –
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Town Scathach, Town Svekj; Svejk switched his vote to Inner because he just didn’t like the bandwagon on Scathach and thought the case against Inner was stronger.
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Town Scathach, Scum Svejk: Svejk thought Scathach was destined to be lynched (due to the rising groundswell of suspicion against her) and figured hoping off the bandwagon would make him look less scummy. OR, for some reason he felt Inner was more likely to be a power role. This strikes me as a very risky scenario since it does (and obviously did) make him gain more attention to himself.
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Scum Scathach, Town Svejk: Really, same as option #1.
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Scum **Scathatch, **, Scum Svejk: Svejk was worried that Scathach was about to be lynched and decided to hop off the train and cause a new bandwagon on Inner.
So special ed said he didn’t think there were equal chances of these scenarios being true, but I don’t think he elaborated on which he felt was most likely/unlikely. Could you do so now? Ditto anyone else who either a) has corrections to my suppositions or b) wants to offer ideas on these cases.
Of all the other players, I’m still baffled by fubbleskag’s weird choices at the end of the last Day. There were a bunch of posts that were just copy/paste and smilies. He remains suspicious of Mahaloth but I can’t see any real arguments as to why.
Scathach herself: hasn’t done much scumhunting, in fact doing more to protect Svejkb than to protect either herself or hunt out any other players. Which is why I lean toward options #3 (if she’s snuggling) or #4 (if she’s protecting either a regular scumbuddy or a scum power role whom she deems more “important” than herself).
Mahaloth… well, I’m tempted to mistrust him since he’s been riding me for a while (and not in the good way ;D) and I’m not seeing a rationale other than play style. I actually think I’ve been doing a much better job of scumhunting since my last game, believe it or not, so I’m feeling pretty good about my participation as a useful Townie this time around. If askthepizzaguy were here I’d love to know his thoughts on my more confident play. 
But anyway, that’s just me. Putting his vote for me aside, he’s been curiously defensive and oversensitive to everything fubbleskag says, and I can’t quite figure out if it’s genuine anger or if he and fubbles are scum involved in some kinda performance art. Together their behavior is really weird and, I daresay, suspicious. Or maybe they’re just kinda reactionary / strange players.
Silver Jan’s playstyle is so markedly different from how I’ve seen her play before that it kinda has to make me more curious. However, RL issues do seem to explain this, so I guess I’m neutral on her at the moment.
fluiddruid’s coming across as a bit defensive, which IIRC is relatively status quo for her style in the Mafia games I’ve read. I can only speak for myself, but I know if I’d only written 9 posts in three weeks (now a few more since she was called on the carpet for it) I’d damn well expect to bear the brunt of Town’s irritation and suspicion. That she’s this defensive surprises me and begins to ping me a bit.
Mental Guy has stayed off my radar with a pretty understated play style. His vote against fisha can be set aside considering it was a Day 1 vote where we’re all basically stabbing in the dark. His next vote was for Scathach, and I couldn’t then and still don’t see the reason why that bandwagon started on her. That he remained on Scathach despite others jumping off to Inner could be read either way: if she’s scum, he could’ve been either Town insisting on her guilt, or scum deciding to keep his bet where it was since should a scummy Scathach eventually be exposed, he’s lookin’ pretty good as a result.
Gnarlycharlie, could you expand a bit on your rationale for voting for Mahaloth last round? Not getting a feeling on gnarlycharlie on either side.
GuiriEnEspana, for reasons unknown, does not strike me as scum, although again his repeatedly asking questions from days ago (and not linking to them, which isn’t very helpful) shows either a terrier-like stubbornness to dig at the truth, or a pretty clever scum ploy to put everyone on the defensive and thereby avoiding the spotlight shining on himself. If he is scum, he’s damn good. Ditto Town, for that matter.
I think that’s everyone. Looking at my not-very-well backed-up summaries above, I would be most tempted to vote for Scathach, Svejk, fluiddruid and fubbleskag. And maybe Mahaloth but I can’t trust myself enough to say whether there’s some subconscious OMGUSing urging me to vote for him.
For now, I’ll…
vote Scathach
But don’t be surprised if this vote switches as the Day goes on.
I did address his claim and I’ve already explained my vote; your lack of acceptance does not equal a lack of an explanation on my part
did. enough for a vote at this time, yes. not at this time.
agree
this is officially the most overly-sensitive mafia game I’ve played.
as am I.
I don’t think I’m reactionary or strange. I just think fubble made outrageous and false claims about me, with no citation, and it bothered me. It wasn’t “in game” claims, either, it was personal. And unprovoked.
How have you down better as a scum hunter in this game?
That’s not what I’m suggesting. As the whole of my post indicates, I think we have an SK, not a Vig; if I’m wrong and we have a Vig, I theorize that we seem to have one who is either uncooperative or unreceptive to town suggestions (hence the lack of attempt to confirm the doc claim). I only mentioned special ed as an example because, frankly, he’s one of the posters that I think would be most likely to completely ignore suggestions and target his own kills.
previously explained (was so tempted to respond here only with a smiley of some kind lol)
that would be something, wouldn’t it?