No need to say sorry folks, it happens. Go Town!
how did the parent-meeting go?
Man, the ghosts are a lot noisier here than they were back in De’endee. And that was supposed to be a haunted town! 
Re: Hirka’s suggestion, I won’t be sharing anything about whom I plan to block, and I certainly wouldn’t advise any of the other alleged power role players to chatter either. However, the non-power folks are welcome to give any suggestions they may have; indeed, your comments could be of great use either now or down the road.
So clearly we’re just gonna let another Night go by without anyone helping out the power roles (assuming all of us are power roles), huh? Presumably you’re all either still shaking off the effects of your New Year’s Eve benders or you’re all scum. Even if the latter were the case, I’d think you could’ve made some noise to keep things lively and throw us off the scent.
Crapples. It’s nearly Dawn and I have an almost certain suspicion that I may have chosen the wrong person to block. Also I’m pretty sure I won’t live to see the Dawn anyway. (Like it matters, considering I haven’t been very effective in my blocking–unless Scathach really is the SK or Godfather!) Either way, if this is my valedictory post, I’ll see y’all on the other side.
Don’t fail me, fellow Townies – and forgive me if I failed you! 
Though before, the township were fearful and despondent, they found a potential savior in Hirka T’Bawa. “Tell us, Hirka!”, they fawned. “Tell us who we should kill!” But (as may have been expected) Hirka was not there to tell. In fact, Hirka seemed absent, dead or alive. All anybody could find was gregorio, again, as dead as he was the first time.
Hirka T’Bawa (Town gregorio) is dead
It is now Day 6. Day ends at 4:OO PM MST on Sunday, January 7th as usual.
Heh. I love his role: Town gregorio. Cute, Trepa.
This is probably not surprising. Hirka was the biggest threat to the remaining scum team, assuming that team consists of one Godfather and one goon (vanilla). A Godfather wasn’t in danger from him, but the goon was.
Obviously we can rule out Scathach and Mahaloth as vanilla scum. That leaves septimus, choie (if I’m being objective), special ed and Svejk.
FWIW, I blocked special ed last night. I was about to go for the trifecta and block Scathach for a third time, since twice before we’d seen no second kill, but I thought of all the permutations that could’ve resulted in that same result (primarily PCM being the SK) and figured I might as well go for someone else this time. My next choice was septimus, except it was just too risky. I’d feel utterly stupid if blocking the actual doctor resulted in either my or another townie’s death.
That left Mahaloth, Svejk and special ed. This was a damn tough call. I basically tossed a dart at a bullseye and it landed on special ed, although I admit his last-minute “what if choie’s scum after all?” did make me put a little spin on that hypothetical dart so it’d land on him.
Anyway. That was my thinking. The result of this? Same as with Scathach, with one extra caveat: either special ed is town, he’s a scum Goon who wasn’t charged with making the kill, or he’s the SK. Yeah, so that’s not very helpful. The PCM Conundrum has really wreaked havoc on our ability to figure this stuff out logically. Doesn’t seem fair.
But… speaking of our alleged Town Doc. I don’t see how he could’ve decided not to protect Hirka. This is the second time he’s decided against protecting the most useful member of Town (Guiri being the first). I admit he may have doubted Hirka’s claim, but just like my not wanting to risk blocking the alleged Town doctor, septimus should have swallowed his doubts and risked protecting the alleged Town detective.
Of course septimus has made it policy not to reveal whom he protected after the fact, which to me is utter horse puckey but what can you do.
Oh wait. I know what I can do. FOS at septimus. I fear if you’re any kind of doctor, you’re the one from Marathon Man. (Well, okay, that guy was a dentist, but you know what I mean.)
I agree that it seems odd that Hirka wasn’t protected. It’s the obvious choice with so many already investigated. To get one more investigation might hand us the game.
it’s also odd that the Scum chose to kill Hirka.
Question for the moderator:
**
If 2 people attempt to kill a protected person, will that person be protected from both kills?**
Also, Choie, you state that I’m either Town, SK, or Scum goon. That leaves out only Scum power role. Why did you leave that one out?
Why? As the obvious choice, why wouldn’t they? (Especially if septimus isn’t really Town after all?) In fact since they went after Hirka, that gives credence to the idea that they knew he wouldn’t be protected–because septimus is a dirty ratfink scum.
(Oh wait, is that what you were saying?)
Oooh that’s a good question. Seconded!
Good point. I guess I’ve become overly infatuated with the idea that either Scathach or Mahaloth is a Godfather. I don’t really know why that is, maybe Hirka’s reading on them was correct and they’re vanilla Town after all. Maybe here’s no Godfather, or maybe it’s somene else entirely.
Anyway, since I was thinking that Scathach or Mahaloth was the Godfather, I figured that if one assumes four members of Team Scum, we’d have:
Silver Jan = Scum Roleblocker
gnarlycharlie = Scum Goon
Scathach or Mahaloth = Scum Godfather
TBA = Scum Goon
Just seems like with four presumptive scum folks (for all I know there coudl be more or less, but four seems to be what we’ve been assuming, right?), it’d make sense for two to be power roles, and two to be regular flavor.
Or is this an incorrect assumption re: game balance? Three out of four seems unbalanced/unfair to Town, especially since we also have a SK (either alive or dead). But maybe I’m wrong and because of their lesser number they need the assistance of a greater proportion of power roles?
Yeah, basically. I mean, if I were Scum, I would assume he was protected and shoot for someone else. Of course, it might be a desperate situation for them. Maybe there is only 1 Scum left?
Only one scum left? So you’re speculating whether PCM might’ve been scum rather than the SK? Or do you think there were only three scum to begin with?
I must say the color (I know, I know, we’re not supposed to count it) was much less… well, colorful… this time around. Trepa didn’t even bother with the romance theme this time. Could this suggest the kill was from the SK rather than scum?
This makes the answer to your question of Trepa even more pertinent. Because if there were dual attempts on Hirka’s life, and one was blocked while the other wasn’t…
Actually the more I’m reading what I was just writing, the more I disagree that a doctor’s protection wouldn’t withstand dual kill attempts. My guess is someone is either protected or s/he isn’t. Although I’m fine being corrected on that point.
Still, if there were two kills on Hirka, neither of which were blocked, then I’d expect the color to indicate a pair of bullet holes, or one bullet hole and one stab wound, or something similarly gory.
However. If Hirka was hit by the SK, not scum, then we’re left with at least three scenarios:
Scenario #1 - septimus either self-protected or protected me, and the scum killer was unlucky in his/her choice, or
Scenario #2 - I successfully blocked the scum killer-designate, i.e., you.
Scenarios #3 - #10: The inevitable scenarios I have forgotten to include, because I always forget to include at least one scenario!
I’m not moderating this game, but I would assume so, unless it is otherwise stated in a role PM.
So Mahaloth, what are your thoughts on the latest development? Chip in, you’ve been pretty silent as far as analysis and comments, and we can use all the help we can get.
1 Scum left is more likely if PCM were Scum.
I don’t like that thought, but mostly because it implies I’m Scum and my kill was blocked. I know that’s not true.
That is the standard, but standard and Trepa don’t always go hand in hand.
Maybe there were just 3 Scum? and PCM was one of them?
Maybe the Scum have a power to use and can’t use the power and NK at the same time?
Also from the rules:
Another question for the moderator that just occurred to me:
Do Scum designate a killer for their NK or is it a group kill with no one doing the actual action?
I remember that Trepa has preferred that style in previous games. Hamlet, if I’m not mistaken, and maybe one of those Super Smash Brother games.
And, sicne I’ve asked 2 questions publicly. I’m going to ask them privately as well, and I encourage every one else to do so as well because of this rule:
Holidays putting us in party mood, I’ve arisen late in the Land of Smiles !
… Arisen to disaster. :eek: What happened? Last Night I did Protect Hirka.
AFAIK, my Protection should have kept Hirka alive in the face of two Killings, or even ten Killings for that matter. That’s what my PM implies and that’s how Mafia has been.
I’ve not been coy about revealing my Targets (leaving it ambiguous which Power I Protected Night 4 to avoid helping Scum). None of my previous targets have died so I am not, unbeknownst to me, some Gastard Jekyll/Hyde Doc/Killer.
In some Mafia games, I think, Scum may get a single special unstoppable Kill. Either that happened or I was somehow blocked or redirected.
Trying to copy/paste from my phone. Did anyone we PM Trepa? If not, please do so to confirm my answers.
Not that it helps me, but it means choie couldn’t block a scum kill
Does anyone else think the answer implies a protector?
[QUOTE=Trepa Mayfield]
[QUOTE=special ed]
**Do Scum designate a killer for their NK or is it a group kill with no one doing the actual action?
**If 2 people attempt to kill a protected person, will that person be protected from both kills?
[/QUOTE]
-
It is a group kill with no-one doing the actual action.
-
Yes, that person would be protected from both kills.
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t confirmed this yet but damn, if this is true, I feel awfully useless. What’s the purpose of my roleblocking abilities? I guess stopping the SK was/is my only raison d’etre.
Anyway enough pity partying. Does your second question mean that you think Trepa is tacitly confirming septimus’s doctor role? I’d say probably, though we did have a bodyguard at one point.
Right now I’m not sure what to think about septimus – you really protected Hirka but he was killed anyway? So basically Town is a bunch of eunuchs!
I did play in a Trape game as Scum once where a Scum teammate had the a variety of powers, one of which was to protect a player. And the person being protected was made aware of that. It lead to a heaping helping of Townie cred and a win for the Scum.
I won’t mention that in the game I was a Scum in a 3 person masonry where the other masons knew one mason was Scum. I managed to get one lynched Day 1 and the other Vigged Night 1 before spending all of Day 2…no…never mind, nothing happened because my posts were deleted from the thread!
Is this an elegant ending?
Two investigated Vanilla, one (likely?) a Godfather. (mahaloth, scathach)
Two claimed Powers, liars not ruled out. (choie, septimus)
Two Unknowns. (special ed, svejk)
My thoughts on the game:
First, (almost) all games I’ve seen have had a Scum Godfather who investigates as Vanilla Town. I think Hirka caught one of them before he died, else Scum would have kept Hirka alive to “clear” the true Godfather, especially if he could draw an investigation. It is thus likely, and perhaps a good working hypothesis, that either Mahaloth or Scathach (the Vanillas') is the Scum Godfather, perhaps with a 1-time unstoppable Kill. He waits until Town Cop (Hirka) clears him, then Kills Cop before Cop can clear more Townies. Key questions: Who was Hirka going to Investigate last Night? Which of the Vanillas’ (if either) is Godfather?
(Another possibility is that PCM was the Godfather. I’d ask for help on guessing how likely that is.)
Please note that in the situation described we may be in trouble even if the Vanilla Godfather is the only remaining Scum (assuming we misguess which) and the only path to victory is then to Lynch one of them toDay. We try very hard to make the Lynch count, making sure we pick which of the two is Godfather; if not we’ll be at Lynch or Lose toMorrow.
Second, the death of Hirka despite my Protection requires some explanation. Possibilities are (I’ll show both choie and myself as possible liars though in fact I am trustworthy and consider choie probably trustworthy as well):
- I lied when I said I Protected Hirka. But I have clear proofs that I am not Scum.
- Choie is lying, and is the Scum Backup, became Blocker when she bussed Silver Jan, and blocked me last Night. (If choie is the Town Blocker, I don’t think she’d be lying now.)
- Both Scum and SK targeted Hirka, overriding my single Protect. This is unlikely for at least two reasons: That’s not the traditional rule. SK is probably PCM and dead.
- There is an unexplained Over-kill or Redirection Power. Godfathers sometimes have extra powers (e.g. one-time over-kill) so Mahaloth or Scathach could be the Redirector or Overkiller.
- One of the remaining two, Svejk and Special Ed, is the Scum Power. (If choie is truthteller, Ed has an alibi last Night.) Svejk may be the Scum Power but if so, deserves the win, as well as being the first rookie installed in the Mafia Hall of Fame.
In this working hypothesis, there is no longer an SK, and 1 or 2 Scum are still alive. (If there were 3 they could almost claim victory now.) Suppose there is only 1 Scum left, and he is Mahaloth or Scathach, one of the two Hirka “cleared.” If we fail to Lynch one of them toDay, after MisLynch and NK, both Godfather candidates are still alive and we must guess right: We are then at Lynch or Lose. If we assume that toMorrow we’ll guess right, and Lynch the true Godfather, then targeting another and Lynching Godfather toMorrow might make sense. But if we’re so sure who the Godfather is, better is to Lynch him toDay, so we can watch toNight’s Night Kill and possible other actions before choosing from among ed or svejk (or choie or septimus).
Facing the guess `Which of Mahaloth or Scathach is Godfather?’ will Players guess right? I can’t say I’m certain which of the two is likely Scum, but even if I knew, I doubt I could convince fellow Townies. In any case, it is imperative to examine the cases against Mahaloth and Scathach toDay. I volunteer to make an objective study of the case against scathach, but either give me a few helpful hints or expect to wait a few days. – I am so busy.
And this dangerous scenario assumes just a single Scum (a Godfather). :smack:
More likely, perhaps is that one of other four (choie, septimus, special ed, Svejk) is a 2nd scum, with the Godfather, but we still need to figure out which of the two above is Godfather. We’ll have a much better view on these “uncleared” people after voting, observing the Night actions and more voting.
I’ve found Mahaloth more suspicious throughout the game but finally admit, the case is not strong. I’ve not pursued the case against scathach and intend to do that over the next day and then post a small Wall of Words for Scathach. If anyone cares to summarize the case against him first, I would appreciate it.
Jesus. It might just be the Benedryl I’m OD-ing on right now, but does any of that sound likely in what’s supposed to be a Newbie-friendly game? De’endee seemed less complicated, and that was my first game!
I do think there’s merit in the idea that Hirka cleared a Godfather and was thereafter killed lest he find another scum in the haystack of remaining players. But it could be just as likely that Scathach and Mahaloth are what they seemed to be – vanilla Town – and the remaining two scum (if two there be) were afraid they’d get sussed by Hirka’s next investigation.
Ugh. I’m still reeling over the fact that Town has a roleblocker who can’t actually block anything useful, except the alleged Serial Killer, which we don’t even know for sure exists. Unless there’s some other kind of Scum role that performs an action*, the only players I could actually hinder aside from the alleged SK were all fellow Townies! (E.g. the detective and the doctor, and possibly a vig if that’s what we had instead of a SK.) How impotent can you get? Not to mention that we had another Town role (the Hider) that was far more detrimental to Town than to the Scum.
And Trepa called this Newbie-Friendly? I demand a new game mod!
- I mean, I’m sure there are scum roles that perform actions, but I mean in this particular game.
Wait, what clear proof is there that you’re not Scum?
If I’m the town blocker, of course I’m not lying. If I were scum, then I’d be lying. This seems fairly obvious.
Also if we’re to believe special ed then any single protect is enough to stop both kill attempts.
This is the part where choie bangs her head against the floor in utter confusion.
Hey, I was the last Townie alive in my first game. That’s gotta count for something. 
But seriously, I’m not sure what you mean by Ed having an alibi, though. If I blocked him and he’s vanilla Scum, how did I give him an alibi? He wouldn’t have done anything anyway.
I say we lynch Svejk or Scathach. Just because I’ve wanted one or both of 'em dead since the Inner lynching. 
(Man, that seems like years ago now!)
But wait a minute. If Scum had a single “unstoppable kill,” why did they wait so very long to use it, rather than knocking out the Doctor before Hirka claimed? They couldn’t possibly have known Hirka was gonna claim, especially such a bizarre role. After septimus made his claim, why wouldn’t they decide to eliminate him just to get the doc out of the picture so Town had no protection whatsoever?
septimus, whom have you protected each Night? There were only two Nights where we know whom you protected – once you protected yourself, and the other last Night when you allegedly Hirka.
And are we ever going to hear any strategic talk from Scathach, Svejk, or Mahaloth again?
I’m looking at Scathach, for reasons given.
Scum have some other sort of power, possibly redirection, rather than one-time kill.
My Protectees have been: N1 - guiri, N2 - self, N3 - self, N4 - self, N5 -hirka. With two Kills Night 1, it seemed Scum had not targeted guiri and I formed an hypothesis that guiri might be Scum. N4 I considered Protecting you, but your role seemed relatively useless compared with Doc so I self-protected.
If I were Scum, I’d be sure to NK guiri Night 1 or 2 (unless BillMc was also playing). Clear to me, anyway.
I agree. My confused post just implied that as Townie you’d not now lie about your last Night’s target.
I agree ed could easily be Scum Goon. I’m worried about the Redirection Power (or whatever it was) that stopped my Protection. We know Ed isn’t that (if you’re truthteller) and in fact Ed is the only one we can positively rule out. :smack: We can also assume that, if Scum have to nominate a Killer, ed wasn’t the nominated Killer last Night. With only 1 or 2 Scum left, there’s a fair chance you’ll implicitly detect the Killer toNight, by stopping a Lynch. Guess well, choie, and Town wins even with misLynch toDay.