Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

The Game Room
2301

Okay, really long post ahead, guys. Sorry for it but at least it might keep everyone busy reading for awhile and, hopefully, give some new insight to things or stoke further questions or revelations.

First of all, wow…a lot of roleclaims out of the woodwork now. We have Hockey as the oldest, then Pleonast and now Zeriel. Of the three I think the most creedance would have to go to Zeriel because another monk could easily come forth and catch scum just by invalidating the claim. Dunno how smart of an idea that would be but it seems the exchange would be equal just to have another Cultist dead.

Regarding Hockey, more and more I’m believing her claim. It isn’t as much as that nobody else as roleclaimed it too (as per Captain Klutz’s weird reasoning to expose themselves, something scum would want IF Hockey IS scum and trying to draw it out (or CK for that matter–but more on this later)) but rather just the fact that IF she was falsely claiming (and if there is only one Alchemist in the game), then why wouldn’t the real Alchemist, at the very least, still show some hesitancy and nay even try to convince everyone not to believe her?

The only one I see doing things kinda like this is CometotheDarkSide with her reminders that she (Cookies) does not trust her (Hockey), and even the vote that took place the last Day after Hockey roleclaimed. However Cookies also painted both FCoD and I shady for various reasons, so call it bias if you will, but I don’t feel she is doing this because she may be the Alchemst herself. I actually suspect her in having more ulterior motives, but again, more on this later (yes, I told you this would be a long post–it helps me (and may help others) when I sort my thoughts out this way with lists and breaking things down).

Finally there’s Pleonast, where my own vote lies currently, and I think his is the most unverifiable claim out there. Really, there’s no way to tell or know if he’s telling the truth or lying through his teeth (if one is REALLY town that is–but I disgress) unless he’s dunked or killed off at Night.

That being said, going with my gut, I don’t like it. This may be because of four and a half Days so far of build up but just the whole timing and convienentness of it smells, although I do admit that’s just a feeling. The reasons he gives for claiming this early DO sound reasonable, though, and time will tell if he’s lying or not (and hopefully sooner rather than later).

So for now I’m going to unvote Pleonast.

That being done, I really need to take a look at others now…especially those I haven’t even considered yet or have had no prior suspicions of.

And the best way to do this, I feel, is a slow breakdown. Going through the list of people and doing my best to use process of elimination (at least in my own head). This is what I’m known for and my niche, if I may not be modest for a moment. Analyzing lists and using them to help me (and maybe even others-who knows?) figure out where to turn.
Again, I will be doing this for MY benifet, but with the hopes to maybe get feedback from others or comments or even things like “Uh…Idle…why would you think this?”…and from that, maybe something will lead someone else to notice something. Really, it’s something I feel the topic has needed for some time, and as the player list grows shorter, I feel those of us still in the game need to step up more and more. By the end of all of this, I should have a clearer idea who to vote for, although disclaimer: I will be using a lot of gut feelings and supposes in here. Obviously I could be very, very wrong. I’m sure I don’t have to tell anyone in here that but I’ve learned never to assume. :stuck_out_tongue:
First of all, I’m going to post a list of everyone currently still in the game.
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
5 Hockey Monkey
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
10 Malacandra
12 Kyrie Eleison
14 Pleonast
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Pygmy Rugger
18 amrussell
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
30 Captain Klutz
Well, for starters, I’m going to assume (for now) that all the role claims are telling the truth. Zeriel, I personally feel, is. Hockey Monkey maybe, but more “probably telling the truth” than “probably lying”. Pleonast not so much, but since I just unvoted him and therefore don’t have any plans, at the moment, to REvote him in the same post, I will throw him in there with it.

So I’m taking all three of those players off of the list and putting them, in my mind, into a “probable/maybe/possible/kinda/at-least-for-now protownie vibe” list

So here is what it looks like now:
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
10 Malacandra
12 Kyrie Eleison
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Pygmy Rugger
18 amrussell
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
30 Captain Klutz
From this new list, I’m going to take off sach, being how most have concluded she was a good probable for being a breadcrumb of Hal’s for one of the two Nights he had investigated.

Added to that is the new addition of Pygmy Rugger, whom, since he’s replacing Nava, I have no read on him whatsoever either way. So for now, he is not anyone I’m going to vote for.
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
7 NAF1138
10 Malacandra
12 Kyrie Eleison
16 Fretful Porpentine
18 amrussell
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
30 Captain Klutz
Now, past posts and logical jumps and personal/gut feels starts to come into play. FCoD, I’ve seen, has seemingly felt and seen all the same things I have thus far in the game, although I do strongly disagree with his opinion of making posts that will help others when you’re dead and gone. Still, up until now, before the role claim, I’ve felt Pleonast was the most shady person in the game, and while I have no doubt scum will probably vote for scum along the way, FCoD has consistantly stayed on Pleonast. To me, this just feels that it’s either scum town or town town, and being as I have thought Pleo, if anyone in that duo was, would be the scummy one, I tend to think FCoD isn’t so much.

The whole constant NAF, Kyrie, Queuing exhanges also gave me a townie feel, although I did have earlier Day One suspicions of both NAF and Kyrie and think that Queuings playing style is very…out there, so to say.

He seems very bold. Very blunt. Almost smug, I might go as far to say. Certainly fairly ballsy and assuredly very sure of himself. This makes it hard to get a read on him, at least in my eyes, but I’m not so sure that scum would be playing this way. In my experience as hosting I note that some scum are aggressive and some are more keeping to the shadows and not posting much that allows you to get reads on them. This makes me think that Queuing is either a very ingenious scum, or a very assertive townie. As of late I’ve been leaning more toward the latter.

Along with that NAF strikes me as saying things and having opinions that scum wouldn’t ring in on or just keep mum about. The whole insistence that Monks stay quiet and not divulge their numbers (something I would be for the best too) feels to me as geniune concern, whereas scum, I feel, could easily just not say anything one way or the other and let the others work out what the best choice is. Same with Kyrie.
So, taking all of the above off possible votes that I will cast for toDay, here is the new list:

2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
10 Malacandra
16 Fretful Porpentine
18 amrussell
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
30 Captain Klutz
Two names still on this list stand out. Both Fretful Porpentine and HazelNutCoffee. In games of the past, I always thought it wasn’t smart for ACTUAL town to say who they trust or have town “feels” for. Not unless they are some kind of role or know beyond a doubt and want to try to leave clues or breadcrumbs for if/when they are gone. Many times you see people say who they are most suspicious of and nay, real town should ALWAYS be suspicious of everyone in the whole game, really.

That being said, so far, in this whole game and from the start, while I am not about to say I trust them by a long shot, I am suspicious of these two players the least. Just the posts they make and the opinions they give seem to hold merit and ring/sound genuine. It’s been said there is a certain way that town sounds in their posts…something that scum can’t duplicate, and if any, I get the most from both Hazel and Fretful. Now this could very well mean both or one are scum and excellent at this game…and I certainly won’t be ruling it out and, barring I live passed this Day will be forced to start looking at those I haven’t as much thusfar…but as of toDay, at least, I don’t see myself voting for them for any reason at all.
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
10 Malacandra
18 amrussell
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
30 Captain Klutz

Now I’m going to take a break from taking people off the list and, in my own mind and stream of conciousness, stop helping myself find reasons why I won’t be voting for someone, and instead go the opposite way.

For one, I’m suspicious of CometotheDarkSide as of late. She doesn’t seem to add much, even from the start of the game and more or less tries to stay in the shadows. I haven’t really seen her say who she’s been suspicious of, other than as of late, but before mostly those she was suspicious of she just voted for. I don’t feel this is very helpful to the game, but then again, maybe she’s not looking to BE helpful. She’s also voted for someone who had ALREADY role claimed, seemingly willing to dunk them based on thinking they might he lying. Please note, I feel this is much more concerning than someone who may already be voting for someone who role claims or EVEN someone who holds their vote on someone they were already voting for who role claims. But to actually vote for someone who has already role claimed. that just seems and reads wrong to me.

Then we have Diggit two, who, earlier, seemed to take a lot of people who were part of a group he saw as trying to out the Crusader and is concentrating on them. And for reasons because he chose to interject his earlier self into the fray and thinks that any possible scum that might be among them (myself included) would just happen to KNOW he MUST be the Crusader himself.
This really strikes me as flimsy reasoning…really, reasons that hold no weight at all. So there he lies on my list of suspects.
Many people, I’ve noticed, aren’t playing too much or saying much of anything due to being busy or such, among them USCDiver, MHaye, and fluiddruid. The most interesting here, at least to me, is fluid who was pretty prominent in past games like three and four but who is seemingly taken a step back. Although one point in her favor is that in three she was scum…so maybe she isn’t in this one. Then again, my brain things, maybe she is and she’s just changing up her playing style since she was the first found in that game.

The other two I mentioned, MHaye and USCDiver, unlike Nava, HAVE been posting but, for the life of me, I can’t seem to garner much from their posts one way or another. It makes me wonder why they seem to be staying low. Trying to stay off radars maybe?

In any case, however, like Nava, I can’t see myself voting for them yet or feeling too sure in my stance, so off the list they come, for me. fluid for now too, although I think it’s time, at least for me, to start looking in her direction more.
3 Idle Thoughts
10 Malacandra
18 amrussell
23 zuma [Ver. 2]
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
30 Captain Klutz
Other than Diggit there are still two other players who were subs on the list…amrussell and zuma part two.

Both I haven’t gotten high readings on yet, although admittantly both are much better than their previous incantations in regards to analysis and posts that state their suspcions, amrussell especially.

zuma, on the other hand, while posting and voting, is a big question mark to me and could go either way, really, although unlike Hazel and Fretful I don’t feel he’s town. That being said I don’t feel he’s scum either…so I really don’t know what to think.

In any case, I don’t feel be voting for either of them toDay.

Keep in mind, though, that I’m not eliminating people from this list right now from suspicion, but rather just who I’m going to feel it’s best to vote for when you finally get down to the nitty gritty in who is most likely to be scum.

That being said, there are only a few more names left:

3 Idle Thoughts
10 Malacandra
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
30 Captain Klutz

Mal I had strong suspicions at first and even voted for him on Day Two. And while I changed it later to Kat, that doesn’t still mean, to me, that Mal couldn’t also be scum. Although Kat’s vote that pushed him into the lead when it was a tie and the consequent finding of her to be Cult did work in his favor some, at least to me.

Since then he’s hung on on my list of suspects, although around the bottom of it. At this point I don’t feel a vote for him is something I’m ready to do again, at least not with enough surity behind it.

That leaves four names, and two of them I’ve already laid out good reason to vote for. The other two are myself and Captain Klutz.

The recent vote count actually shows that CK is voting for Diggit part two, so this leads me again to wonder if scum may be voting for scum or if it’s possibly scum/town or town town. As they are both still on the narrowed down list of mine, I certainly don’t FEEL that it’s town/town, so, at the very least, I’m going to conceed it’s town/scum or scum/scum.

So…before I get into this a bit deeper, let me say that I’m not going to vote for Cookies toDay because, really, I’m suspicious of her but it’s not a very strong thing yet, in the formation in my mind.

That being said, I am also going to take myself off the list, simply because I know what I am and that confirms it to me alone, and obviously since it’s my list of who to vote for, I’m only going to vote for those I have suspicions of. :stuck_out_tongue: Sorry to say, I am not included on that knowing only where allegence lies. Others may feel free to keep me on any lists they make, however, since I don’t expect them to know what I know or believe me at this juncture.

So that would leave two names on my list…DiggitCamara 2 and Captain Klutz.

I actually feel both are very shady characters in different ways but over the course of the game, I went back and took a look at what CK has posted and it was pretty interesting.

-Posted real Alchemist should come out and say Hockey is lying if she is.
-Posted if Apprentice finds out who the Avatar is they should role claim.
-Posted we should dunk the Apprentice since it’s an unreliable role.

All this added up, over the course of the last few Days (and from the beginning), it really makes me look at him as the shadier of the two…and since I can only vote for one person anyway, at a time, I feel that he is the best there is so far.
So for all these reasons and outcomes based on narrowing it down, I’m going to vote Captain Klutz

2302

I have spent as much time going over my notes as possible and I can’t come up with anyone I find more suspicious than fluid. Much of this is WIFOM and some is meta-gaming…but fluid is just under the radar more than most. I think besides myself and sach she probably won’t get any votes because no one has a read on her, and that is the problem.

She has also come out and called me, her (at the time she said it) biggest critic “probably town.” Flattering your critics and calling them town is something of a scum tell.

So, we have about 24 hours left I think (a little more?) and I tomorrow looks like it is going to be busy so…

vote fluid.

With Zeriel pointing at her too, at least I know she won’t be a mason.

2303

I was looking at ways to possibly test the role claim. If the claim were false then Pleonast might then present more “evidence” in his favour.

Sure, dunking is a bit extreme, but it would guarantee against recruitment, which would then cost us the Oracle (although with the Oracle gone this is moot). Also, at that stage the Apprentice’s investigations were not useful, except for the ability to unambiguously identify the Avatar. Note that the Avatar is more likely to kill a townie than scum, so identifying the Avatar for a Crusader kill looked like a safe way to handle it. The loss of the Crusader now makes the Avatar a bit trickier to handle.

It was an analysis of Hockey Monkey’s Day 1 posts. Since scum would not have had any discussion it was possible that it was intended as instruction to fellow scum. I actually did a check of all of Day 1 looking for this specifically (#1658). It only applies for Day 1, so I don’t see how this is “liable to shut down any townie discussion of how the scum might be thinking”.

2304

After much reading and gnashing of teeth, I’m going to vote Captain Klutz as well. Idle Thoughts summed it up pretty well (at the end anyway…I wouldn’t call that monster post a sum-up. :stuck_out_tongue: ) Klutz called for the Apprentice to role-claim if he/she found the Avatar, and said that we should kill the Apprentice after that happened to prevent a recruitment. These are both quite anti-town sentiments, and since my top two suspects have role claimed, I think this is the best vote.

2305

#2286

My discussion on the role question was in direct response to another player who was analysing the question. I pointed out where I disagreed with his reasoning. And in #1907 (which was not in your summary of my posts) I even said ‘It’s a little unfortunate that “who asked the question” and “how is the question phrased” become factors in evaluating a claim.’

2306

In memory of SnakesCatLady:

[ul]
[li]1414 Pleonast according to Pasta[/li][li]1471 Hal Briston according to Hal Briston[/li][li]1478 Kyrie Eleison according to Kyrie Eleison[/li][li]1479 USCDiver according to USCDiver[/li][li]1482 HazelNutCoffee according to HazelNutCoffee[/li][li]1485 Zeriel according to Zeriel[/li][li]1487 Captain Klutz according to Captain Klutz[/li][li]1488 Fretful Porpentine according to Fretful Porpentine[/li][li]1490 SnakesCatLady according to SnakesCatLady[/li][li]1499 Idle Thoughts according to Idle Thoughts[/li][li]1508 sachertorte according to sachertorte[/li][li]1516 NAF1138 according to NAF1138[/li][li]1520 Pleonast according Pleonast[/li][li]1533 fluiddruid according to fluiddruid[/li][li]1546 Hockey Monkey according to sachertorte[/li][li]1549 MHaye according to MHaye[/li][li]1556 Scuba_Ben according to Queuing[/li][li]1570 storyteller0910 according to Scuba_Ben[/li][li]1590 Zeriel according to Hockey Monkey[/li][li]1639 Autolycus according to MHaye[/li][li]1656 Hockey Monkey according to Captain Klutz[/li][li]1782 Hal Briston according to Queuing[/li][li]1785 Hal Briston according to zuma[/li][li]1806 Malacandra, Mad the Swine, Pasta, Nava, and USCDiver according to SnakesCatLady[/li][li]1831 MadTheSwine according to SnakesCatLady[/li][li]1937 fluiddruid according to Pleonast[/li][li]1966 Zeriel according to Hockey Monkey[/li][li]1980 fluiddruid according to Pleonast[/li][li]1995 Malacandra according to NAF1138[/li][li]2117 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies according to Captain Klutz[/li][li]2119 DiggitCamara v2 according to Captain Klutz[/li][li]2143 Zeriel according to Hockey Monkey[/li][li]2175 Pleonast according to amrussel[/li][li]2198 Pleonast according to amrussel[/li][li]2286 Captain Klutz according to USCDiver[/li][/ul]

2307

Snipped heavily.

I would say that is an accurate description of me, except the smug part :). I do tend to be very blunt. I suppose some consider it a fault, I just don’t like to fuck around.

I don’t get this threesome though. Constant exchanges between NAF, Kyrie and myself?

I think I have addressed NAF once, in regards to his list of people whom had made no impression on him.

Kyrie and myself? The only time I can recall addressing (him? her?) was when s/he thought it was odd that I claimed to be a vanilla citizen, which was IMO, incredibly weak. I believe s/he has also come to that conclusion.

This 3some being lumped together is odd. My “conflicts” have been with Scuba Ben (which led to his death), Hal Briston (for my vote for him on day 2 for the 3rd vote thing), sachertorte slightly as his focus on math and role discussion has ALMOST made my head explode :smiley: , and most recently Zeriel.

So where do you get this 3some from? Am I forgetting my own plays?

2308

I was kinda puzzled by that, too, Queuing. Unless he’s talking about your individual exchanges with me and a few others.

2309

If he had mentioned you I would get it. He didn’t. He linked Naf, Kyrie and myself together.

Idle I would love to hear your reasoning for this.

2310

My mistake, I meant Zeriel. :smack: For some reason, seeing you in the mesh some there made me confuse you with him.

2311

Pre-game
40 (Context) Signs up. Jokes that ruleset is complicated.
48 (Context) Warns us that he’s 2 for 2 at the game.
62 (Context) Jokes that Autolycus will talk like a psychopath.
67 (Context) Chit chat about rules.
75 (Context) Jokingly FOSes ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
144 (Context) Suggests stamping vote counts with greatest post number.
148 (Context) Misinterprets a rule related to the Avatar.
154 (Context) Corrects misinterpretation.
157 (Context) Acknowledges receipt of role PM. Jokes that his role is Sekham.
184 (Context) Prods Blaster Master to start the game.
191 (Context) Jokingly FOSes Hal Briston for fishing for power roles.
193 (Context) 7 minutes to go!

Day One
205 (Context) Responds to Hal Briston’s question regarding the value of non-believers.
218 (Context) Believes that believers and non-believers should work together.
274 (Context) A dead player’s words are a lot more meaningful than a living player’s.
383 (Context) Votes for NAF1138 for defending MadTheSwine on the first day.
384 (Context) The investigators should investigate whomever the hell they feel like.
389 (Context) Responds to Zeriel’s concern that monks might defend one another, notes that there’s little information to be had on day one, and encourages early voting.
395 (Context) Discusses sachertorte’s investigative plan.
402 (Context) Defends NAF1138 vote. Saying things like, “I’m not getting a scummy vibe” are what catch my eye.
409 (Context) More interaction with sachertorte regarding investigators.
418 (Context) Objects to Pleonast’s attempt to stifle investigator discussion.
422 (Context) Friendly post directed to sachertorte.
440 (Context) Realizes that scum and non-believing townies yield the same investigative result.
461 (Context) Defends NAF1138 vote to fluiddruid.
482 (Context) Welcomes me to the game. (Thanks!)
554 (Context) Questions Queuing on his somewhat involved discussion of the plan to shout out names.
637 (Context) Is getting suspicious of Autolycus for not contributing.
703 (Context) Speculates favorably on a Scuba_Ben post.
773 (Context) Corrects Idle Thoughts regarding the recruitability of the Apprentice.
777 (Context) Bwahahahaha! FCOD strikes again!
789 (Context) In case anyone doesn’t know, the Apprentice CAN be recruited.

Night One
930 (Context)
951 (Context)
954 (Context)
956 (Context)

Day Two
1038 (Context) FOSes Malacandra. Is nervous about "a rapid series of votes for Mtgman. Composes an interesting list about which he says he would “bet good money that there’s at least one scum in this group of players.” That list is:
[ul]
[li]Hal (dead Oracle)[/li][li]DiggitCamara (dead Crusader)[/li][li]Zeriel (claimed Monk)[/li][li]Pleonast (claimed Martyr)[/li][li]MHaye[/li][li]Hockey Monkey (claimed Alchemist).[/li][/ul]

He votes for Pleonast.
1063 (Context) Is male. Likes Spivak pronouns.
1117 (Context) Votes don’t count unless blue.
1122 (Context) Makes a joking comment.
1247 (Context) I say leave the current deadline.

Night Two
1338 (Context)

Day Three
1362 (Context) Well that pretty much sucked ass.
1422 (Context) Votes Pleonast. Is more convinced now that Pleonast swung Day One vote to Mtgman.
1537 (Context) Agrees with Hockey Monkey that self-made post summaries are not useful.

Night Three
1729 (Context)

Day Four
1792 (Context) Votes MadTheSwine, largely on the basis that our now dead Oracle did so.
1832 (Context) Unvotes MadTheSwine, deciding that sachertorte was more likely to be Hal’s breadcrumb.
1833 (Context) Corrects color in unvote above.
1836 (Context) Encourages others not to post unless they have something significant to say. Also: *
I still have my suspicions of Pleonast for the reasons I’ve previously outlined. I’m still suspicious of Captain Pig because of Hal’s vote. I’m a little less suspicious of sachertorte because of Hal’s “blessing”. Other than that, everyone else is pretty much equally suspicious to me.*
1860 (Context) I wasn’t trying to be harsh. You couldn’t hear my tone when I wrote that but it was supposed to be half kidding.
1880 (Context) Votes MadTheSwine with little explanation other than a MadTheSwine quote in which Mad reveals his plan.
1904 (Context) Encourages ending the Day before the weekend.
1905 (Context) I just realized that people might not know that I refer to MadTheSwine as Captain Pig.
1910 (Context) Talk about Harry Potter.
1923 (Context) + 1
1962 (Context) In response to an amrussel post: Good catch. This further entrenches my previous suspicion of Pleonast. After Captain Pig is dead, I’ll again focus on him.
1982 (Context) Supports ending the day at 9:30.

Night Four
2057 (Context)
2059 (Context)

Day Five
2080 (Context) Votes for Pleonast citing reasons previously given.
2091 (Context) Defends vote to ComeToTheDarksideWeHaveCookies.
2096 (Context) Expanded reasoning for his vote.
2098 (Context) Claims that ComeToTheDarksideWeHaveCookies has contradicted herself while questioning his vote. FOSes her.
2100 (Context) Corrects typo in previous post.
2104 (Context) Further defends his vote to Cookies.
2138 (Context) Agrees with NAF1138 that it’s unlikely that ArizonaTeach quit because a fellow cultist had voted for him.
2152 (Context) Link to AZTeach’s goodbye post, and says it explains why he quit.
2177 (Context) Expresses support for a mod-kill of nava.
2225 (Context) Doesn’t buy Pleonast’s role claim. Won’t change his vote.
2268 (Context) Offers an opinion regarding how the monks should react to Zeriel’s claim.
2278 (Context) Is still skeptical of Zeriel’s claim. Monks shouldn’t reveal number.
2290 (Context) Reconsiders, and unvotes Pleonast.

I decided to do a work up on a player that didn’t have one. I didn’t find it terribly enlightening. A lot of FlyingCowOfDoom’s posts are light-hearted joking, concern procedural matters, or are corrections to previous posts. However, there is substance to be found in them. He believes that people should post only when they have something significant to say, and in voting early, and his actions seem consistent with those beliefs. I think the combination of these two attributes has kept him somewhat below the radar. In the end, though, I find that I have gained no significant new insight into his alignment.

2312

There are a total of 13 votes cast out of 21. The Day will end in about 20 hours.

** Captain Klutz ** (5) - Fretful Porpentine, Queuing, USCDiver, Idle Thoughts, Hockey Monkey
** DiggitCamara ** (2) - Captain Klutz, Zeriel
** fluiddruid ** (2) - sachetorte, fluiddruid
** Malacandra ** (2) - Pleonast, zuma
** Kyrie Eleison ** (1) - DiggitCamara
** Pleonast ** (1) - amrussell

2313

I should address this. I think that by “weak”, a word you’ve used twice now, you mean little cause to suspect you. If I’m wrong about that, please let me know. But if this assumption is correct, you’re a little off track, largely because I didn’t make myself clear enough to start. I didn’t post that to express suspicion against you – I posted it to warn others not to make similar claims.

I don’t think it makes sense for either scum or town to claim vanilla townie unprompted. For scum, the unprompted claim just risks engendering suspicion. For town, it discloses information to scum. I also think townies are more likely to unthinkingly make this claim than scum are likely to do so deliberately, but that’s very debatable.

There’s a cardinal rule in this game – lynch all liars. That’s why power roles can’t claim vanilla townie, and yet still expect to be believed when they claim their true role when their head is in the noose. Anyone who presents contradictory information to the town, which already operates in an information-deprived environment, is immediately suspect. HazelNutCoffee might be willing to believe them, but I know I would not, and I suspect that most would not.

As a result of this incident, I’m somewhat suspicious of Cookies, who asked the question that prompted you to disclose your status, but it’s easy to see an innocent explanation for that behavior, which greatly moderates my suspicion. I’m somewhat more suspicious of HazelNutCoffee, who continues to support the idea that it’s ok for vanilla townies to disclose their status unprompted. You? You’re pretty much off the hook as far as I’m concerned.

They, like the rest of us, are supposed to keep their mouths shut, and not claim anything at all until the risk of doing so is outweighed by the benefit of doing so. There is no reason to publicly disclose information that doesn’t benefit the town.

2314

I guess I just don’t see the significance in claiming that one is a vanilla townie. No one’s going to believe you anyway. I do think claiming it without any prompting looks suspicious, but in the situation that caused this whole discussion, one player was somewhat indirectly accusing the other of having a power-role (yes, it was in jest). In that case, casually saying, “Me? No. I’m just a plain old vanilla townie” seems like a reasonable reaction no matter what your actual status is. Honestly, I don’t see how it affects the game at all, other than drawing suspicion to yourself if you say it in a manner that makes others think you doth protest too much.

2315

In other news, it’s late and I’m drunk. But I’m going to

vote Captain Klutz

based on USCDiver’s analysis (particularly the meta-gaming and asking **Pleonast ** about whom he protected). Ironically, I am less confident about this vote than I was about voting for Pleonast, but I don’t want the Day to go by without me having cast any vote, so here it is. I’ll try to post more tomorrow, if I’m not too hungover.

2316

I go away for one day, and the world goes crazy. I’ve got some disjointed thoughts and I need to go through others’ analysis more carefully but for now:
unvote Pleonast.

Because a) Some of the behaviour I found suspicious fits with the idea of keeping a secret role low-profile and b) he role-claimed early which gives us time to discuss the issue, rather than forcing our hand.

A new vote will follow later.

2317

:smiley:

At least I’m almost caught up, though. I should have something relevant posted before the end of the Day.

2318

I’ll vote Pleonast, mainly to minute my suspicion of his role-claim, although I doubt he’ll garner enough votes toDay to make a difference.

2319

OK.

As time goes by, Zeriel’s claim becomes more believable, which is fine.

I like Idle’s list, and will try and work through my own. What I also think would be really cool (if tricky) would be if we could cluster the list - e.g. look at posting interaction and say “If A is scum, B & C are probably scum and D is probably town” I don’t know if that’s possible, but if we can dig out relationships between posters, we’d have a good basis for future analysis.

The discussion about outing power roles made me look back at Hal’s posts and reminded me of something I’d noticed before:
[

](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8780531&postcount=1645)
In a game with Oracle, Priest and Monk roles, joking about sacramental wine is probably pretty close to painting a huge target on your back.

My vote: I’m sympathetic to the arguments against Captain Klutz and Diggit v2, but based on my initial thoughts on fluid and others’ arguments about her non-descript posting style, I’m going to vote fluiddruid

2320

Ok, so Zeriel instead of whom?